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A TD 125 bites the dust - or how NOT to pack

Guess I've been one of the lucky ones. Bought all my TT's off CL, except 2. One a Yamaha P200, I bought for parts and was packed like a $1000 TT. I did a little CLA , new belt and cartridge, and made it playable and it's now my needle-drop TT. Second was my current YP-701 and I did contact the seller. I waited nervously for 5 days and it was packed like a new TT, all removable parts off and packed in a separate container in the box. But after reading posts here and seeing damaged TT, I too am done getting TT's off fleabay. Those photos made me puke..............:tears:
 
Someone here posted a packing thread -- I've shipped heavy tables all over the world an only had one small problem with one. If you're buying a table online you should show the seller the turntable packing an shipping thread.

That would be a nice sticky.
I paid $60 to ship mine from an fleabay seller and thought I was getting hosed.
When I got it and everything was in one piece, including the dust cover, I was relieved and seeing what it took to pack it I would pay that $60 every time.

It takes a lot of work and materials to do it right. And a box the size of a mini fridge doesn't hurt either.
 
This is a common case when you buy item weighting more than two pounds from flipper rather than professional restorer. You wanted cheap deal, and you got what you paid for. You should ONLY buy from local seller and pickup it in person, if you want to be on a safe side. You will likely spend more on gas than on shipping across country though in that case, but it usuly still worth the effort.

Now document content, ship box with all this trash back to seller, and dispute payment.
 
OP sorry for the heartache and I agree get you cash back and look at barter town or your local CL.
 
Words of encouragement and suggestions will be appreciated.

This is a common case when you buy item weighting more than two pounds from flipper rather than professional restorer. You wanted cheap deal, and you got what you paid for. You should ONLY buy from local seller and pickup it in person, if you want to be on a safe side. You will likely spend more on gas than on shipping across country though in that case, but it usuly still worth the effort.

Now document content, ship box with all this trash back to seller, and dispute payment.

Not much encouragement in your post, p1. Way to make the OP feel good.

Not sure where in the original post it says the ebay seller was a flipper or that the OP wanted a cheap deal.
 
It's not like there isn't plenty of information on the web about how to pack it right. GoooOOOooogle "packing a turntable". Couple good ones ...

http://www.ebay.com/gds/How-to-Pack-a-Turntable-for-Shipment-/10000000002161041/g.html

http://www.oaktreevintage.com/turntable_packing_for_safe_transit.htm

YouTube has plenty of titles for those who need pictures ...

I like blue construction foam. Takes maybe half a sheet to do it right.

Cut a piece for the bottom of a box that's a couple inches larger than the max footprint dimension of the table.

Cut out another piece for the platter. That goes in next. And platter isn't just the mat - we're talking the entire spinning portion here. Most are gravity fit to the spindle - could be a bit hard to break loose if it hasn't been off for a while.

Another piece between that and the table body. Good place to do cutouts for weights and such that you don't want bouncing around inside.

DO use any "travel" hold downs provided by the mfg to secure the plinth. DON'T trust the arm hold down to stay in place. I always add twist ties in strategic locations, and make them easy to spot. Objective is NOTHING loose inside.

I prefer to leave the dustcover on. A crossed piece of blueboard inside will keep it from crushing. Think beer crate - a couple notches and slide the pieces together. Tape some soft cloth or tissue to the end that touches the cover to prevent scratching, and make sure the foam doesn't sit on any of the sensitive bits.

IMPORTANT - Don't use tape to hold the cover down. Stuff can be impossible to get off at the other end. Couple layers of plastic wrap works nicely. Also put some pieces of cardboard between the edges of the cover and the plinth so it sits level. Most have little nubs at the corners that will break off otherwise, and you also want to make sure you're not stressing the hinges.

- Drop the table in and cut pieces of foam for the sides. Make sure it's a tight fit. Multiple pieces of foam and bubble wrap should do the trick. You can do cutouts in the panels for the cords. Tie those and a quick wrap of bubbles to keep them from rubbing against the table body is a good thing.

One more piece of foam on top, and you're pretty much done. Fold the top of the box over tight and tape the hell out of it. Don't forget to include manuals and notes for reassembly, including travel locks and such. Also include a copy of the bill of sale with your full return address. Labels get ripped off boxes, and this way, the shipper knows what to do to get it home.

If you get in on the sale early enough, contact the seller presale with your concerns, but that's not always possible. I ALWAYS email the seller (use eBay's internal system for a paper trail) with my concerns and suggestions immediately after purchasing as well, either as a heads up or a reminder. Helps with any claims that may need to be followed up if it all goes horribly wrong.

~~~

Granted, not everyone is going to want to go through all that and may cut corners on packing anyway. Letting them know what you expect WILL however convince them to do better than just slapping a label on the dustcover and dropping it in the corner pickup box. Every little bit helps.

Not that it's all on the seller. When you get the table (or anything used) keep in mind it IS used and liable to show some wear and tear. Cosmetics can be dealt with, polishing the cover, a bit of touchup on the plinth, new cables, etc. A bit of TLC on the internals is also to be expected. Short version, don't expect plug 'n play out of the box, but be prepared to be pleasantly surprised if it turns out that way ...

PS ... this IS the short version ... ;-}
 
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I guess my record (sorry bad pun) with turntable shipping is 50/50. A Dual changer I bought online (not eBay) suffered relatively minor damage due to the rubber mat flopping off the platter and trashing the stylus and head shell. I was lucky I guess, it could have been worse.

On my most recent TT, a Sony PS-X55, I contacted the seller and asked if he had experience shipping turntables and he replied that he had successfully shipped a few. I mentioned the need for removing the platter, counterweight, and cartridge. When the box arrived, I nervously opened it and took photographs as I unpacked it just in case I had to file a claim. The platter and mat were packaged separately and placed in the bottom of the box. The counterweight and head shell had each been packed in separate hard plastic containers. The cartridge was separately packed in a small box. The turntable and dust cover were wrapped as one unit in several layers of bubble wrap and placed on top of the platter/mat. Ideally, the dust cover would have been packed separately. What I think really made a difference were the several layers of rigid foam that were wedged around the turntable that kept things from shifting in the box and absorbed the shock when the box was undoubtedly tossed around.

I was relieved that everything was in great condition once unpacked. The seller obviously took quite some time preparing it and his shipping charge was very reasonable as well.

I've shipped two turntables myself using similar methods and they each arrived intact as well. It does take some time and materials to do it right.
 
The OP needs solid advice as to how to handle the present situation so he doesn't suffer a serious financial loss. Within the last couple of weeks a similar thread appeared here and the buyer/AK member was able to get a refund from PayPal/Ebay. I would encourage the OP to search out the thread and use it as guidance in dealing with the seller and PayPal/Ebay. If the seller agrees to a refund including shippin great. I wouldn't ship the table back unless the seller is going to pay for the return shipping. Keep photos of the box, packing material and the condition of the turntable as was found, ie platter on top of plinth, counterweight loose etc. If the seller insured the table it's up to the seller to file a claim with the shipper and I wish him luck since UPS, FedEx etc at this point are well aware of what is required to safely pack a turntable and if it wasn't done right they aren't going to pay. Whatever way things turn out this seller rightfully deserves very blunt negative feedback so that someone else won't make the mistake of buying anything fragile from the seller.
 
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Not much encouragement in your post, p1. Way to make the OP feel good.

Not sure where in the original post it says the ebay seller was a flipper or that the OP wanted a cheap deal.
If he bought TT from someone aware that TT is a precise mechanical device, it would be packed carefully.

The same goes if seller values item he sells - if it is trashed in shiping, then seller will incure significant monetary loss - thus the reason to pack carefully.
 
My condolences to the OP. I always hate seeing these beautiful machines ruined.

I guess I was lucky in a way. I bought a Dual 1218 that was "for parts or repair". The seller said that the platter turned "sometimes". I bought it for the plinth to put on my 1019. They had good feedback and had sold a couple of turntables. There was no dustcover to worry about, but when I got it the plinth was trashed and the transport screws (?) that lock the table down to the base were bent. The shipping was free and I could see from the shipping price on the box that the seller cleared less than $20 on the sale. I contacted the seller with a description of the damage and pictures. I said that I didn't really want to return the TT because I thought it was salvageable. She immediately refunded my money without being asked, and told me to keep it. She seemed to be most interested in protecting her status as a reputable seller.The tonearm and everything looks good, but it's still a shame about the damage. I'm not much impressed with the particle board plinths on these things. I bought enough materials this past weekend to build three plinths. Red Oak is not my first choice but it was all that was available to me in my area, other than pine, without driving 80 miles.
 
Sorry to hear of your misfortune, it is a bummer to lose a table like that. File a claim, and get it covered.

I have bought many a used table, but usually do it off of Audiogon. I find that experienced owners of good tables will pack them better than someone trying to make a buck off of Ebay. I also prefer to use Fed EX economy 3 day air shipping, as the handling is alot better. Sure it costs more, but it helps your table get there in good condition, if its an expensive one it is all that more important.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
If he bought TT from someone aware that TT is a precise mechanical device, it would be packed carefully.

The same goes if seller values item he sells - if it is trashed in shiping, then seller will incure significant monetary loss - thus the reason to pack carefully.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the seller was a flipper or the OP "got what he paid for." There are plenty of clueless people that sell things on ebay that mean no harm. People die, houses have to be cleaned out, etc. If the sellers end up taking a loss, so be it, but your initial post is pure speculation and not really helpful.


To the OP, do file a claim and get things rolling. See what the seller has to say. Send them a PM through the ebay site, but be polite. When things get broken or go wrong, you're much more likely to get service, without having to jump through claims, if you're polite. In some cases you'll get your money back and may end up with the item as well. Hard to tell from the pics but, best case scenario is that you just need a new base and/or need to fix the one that is currently broken. If that is the worst part, it's an easier fix (much more than a broken motor PCB, etc.). Not all ebay sellers are bad and not all tables arrive broken. Sorry that yours did. Been there, and it sucks. PM the seller and start a claim, hopefully you have a happy and fast resolution.
 
Sorry to hear of your misfortune, it is a bummer to lose a table like that. File a claim, and get it covered.

I have bought many a used table, but usually do it off of Audiogon. I find that experienced owners of good tables will pack them better than someone trying to make a buck off of Ebay. I also prefer to use Fed EX economy 3 day air shipping, as the handling is alot better. Sure it costs more, but it helps your table get there in good condition, if its an expensive one it is all that more important.

Regards
Mister Pig

A loaded sentence. If you're selling on Audiogon, you're trying to make a buck as well. I've never seen gear sell for peanuts on Audiogon. That a seller on Agon will pack better, yes, that's probably more likely. On ebay you can get a flipper or someone out to screw you but that's not always (and in my experience, usually) the case. **** happens, things break, people are clueless about how to properly pack items. I've bought gear here on Barter Town from "experienced" owners, some established members, that was horribly packed. Some of it broke, some survived by a sheer miracle.
 
A loaded sentence. If you're selling on Audiogon, you're trying to make a buck as well. I've never seen gear sell for peanuts on Audiogon. That a seller on Agon will pack better, yes, that's probably more likely. On ebay you can get a flipper or someone out to screw you but that's not always (and in my experience, usually) the case. **** happens, things break, people are clueless about how to properly pack items. I've bought gear here on Barter Town from "experienced" owners, some established members, that was horribly packed. Some of it broke, some survived by a sheer miracle.

I find that experienced owners of good tables will pack them better than someone trying to make a buck off of Ebay.

You can translate that snippet as YMMV....In My Opinion....I believe....I think.... or any of the other disclaimers we use for personal experience. Is it an absolute? Or course not. But in my experience this has been the case.

Does Audiogon have flippers? Sure it does, and more so now than before. Does Ebay have owners/hobbyists selling their gear? Sure it does. These are not absolutes.

If you're selling on Audiogon, you're trying to make a buck as well. I've never seen gear sell for peanuts on Audiogon.

Are they making a buck? Perhaps some are, but not everyone is buying low and selling for a profit. Many are moving on surplus gear, or buying used and recovering their purchase price...or most of it.

As far as peanuts, well I don't think anyone accepts peanuts for their audio gear, unless you run across a well heeled elephant who is willing to do a bit of creative financing. :D

When buying tables I prefer to talk to the seller, ask about packing, and pay for or split the cost on Fed Ex Super Saver air shipping. But I buy tables that usually cost a kilobuck or more, so its cost effective to invest a bit more in shipping costs.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Unbelievable. Another table from the real vinyl era is clobbered by the clumsy hooves of 2014.
 
Thanks to all

Thanks to all the many responders to my original post. I appreciate the word of encouragement and the technical advice.

I have purchased (and sold) numerous pieces of audio equipment (including a couple turntables) on the auction site so I know the chances that are taken. I've generally been lucky. There are definitely some crooks out there. This seller has a good feedback and has sold other audio gear, so it seemed like a safe bet. But the packing showed me that he/she has no knowledge of how to properly pack something like a turntable.

I have been trying to reach the seller via email for 2 days. No response so I opened a case in the Resolution Center. I did just hear from the guy and he was taking the position that I had damaged the table - go figure. So it looks like this won't be an easy resolution. In the interim, I have a pile of junk on my hands. If he takes it back - great. If not, then I have a project on my hands.

But I still have the urge for a Thorens, so I will take the suggestions about other sources and see what I can find.

Again, thanks to all for the responses (even the one suggesting that I'm an idiot for buying a table on eBay). This is a great forum!
 
Sorry to hear that the seller is less than forthcoming; talk about adding insult to injury! I think that the pictures tell the whole story and you will be vindicated.
 
Why in the world would you damage the table yourself? That's an idiotic stance for the seller to take.
I've had to deal in the resolution center before, no fun :( it's sometimes easier to contact ebay directly and speak with them (google for a #) it's easier when you have ebay on your side.
Any chance you paypal'd this?

After a few negative ebay packing experiences, I now ask the seller their methods of packaging/shipping. Those who turn a deaf ear or say "I've done it this or that way before and it'll be fine" to a simple request like that, I don't even bother bidding on. Shipping costs are too damn high for these items that aren't packed right to begin with.

I agree that you should only send it back if you're refunded returned shipping up front.
 
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