Adding HiRes streamer to Mac/Airport Airplay system (latest - WiiM Pro )

[hjames]

I've tagged on the edge of a couple of kind folks threads here. Its hopefully understood that I am in no way challenging their choices of gear - such things are always a personal choice, but my path has been different.
I switch to Mac computers somewhere around 2000 with a Powermac G4 tower. got an external drive for that and started ripping all my CDs into (early) iTunes. First at 320k, then later I started all over and switched to lossless. The library has grown over many years, and I migrated that external drive to a Macmini, then later to a late 2009 MacPro I still have. Currently I have about 2 TB of music files in the library.

One feature I liked with the Apple gear was the ability to stream music from my computer to my main sound system, which has also grown and evolved over the years. I have gone through many generations of the Apple Airport devices, and am current using an Airport Extreme that looks like a mini-tower computer, and multiple Airport Express units around the house. Some of the earlier generations had dropout issues, but that final generation is pretty good. A nice feature was a remote App I could load on my iPhone to pick and choose what music to stream around the house to play.

A few years back at the Capital Audio show (DC area), I noticed a lot of vendors were using high resolution Streaming services as sources to show off their systems - and - a lot of them sounded fantastic (tho many had a price to match!)

Lots of folks on AK were early adopters of streaming services. I had played with Pandora and some of the earlier services, but hearing Qobuz and Tidal at the show made my mind up to give it a try.
Added the apps to my iPhone and found Qobuz to be my service of choice. Chose their music on my phone, point the output to the Airport Express on my main system, and enjoy the music.

It’s worth noting that (Apple) AirPlay has a 16-bit/48kHz ceiling (aka CD quality). Nice,
but not the higher resolutions available with the better service like Qobuz.

So I set out to try other hardware ...

Just for background - the current version of my main 2 channel system is below.
An Acurus RL11 preamp, and a Carver TFM-25 power amp.
Sources include a Denon DP-45F turntable w/Stanton 681EEE cart (just offscreen, rarely used)
A Carver TX-10 Tuner (for the few times I listen to local radio)
An Oppo DV970HD (CD, HDCD, SACD, etc - pre BlueRay)
A cheap (auto) HD Radio Tuner I added last year for some of the side-channel services on DC area public radio.
and an Audio Alchemy Digital Decoding Engine V3 (DAC) for CDs and HDCD, and for Airport Streaming.
The DAC has 2 inputs - Coaxial is from the Oppo Disc player, Optical comes off an Airport Express or other streaming device.

I did have a Jolida JD 502CRC in this stack for a long time, but sidelined it last fall, opting for the higher power of the TFM-25.

 

[hjames]

First thing I tried out was Sonos Connect. I had visited a friend with a ton of amazing speakers and gear,
and he used Airports as well as Sonos gear around his home and garage.
I got home and found this interesting used unit with a black "skin" on ebay for a reasonable price (roughly $200).
Downloaded the software and played with it for a month or so last Christmas.

The first problem arose when it tried to read my iTunes library and I just had too many tracks -
it would fail whenever it scanned the library. It was also limited to CD quality.
Plus, it was Airplay 1, not the newer Airplay 2 technology.
Sonos was headed in a different direction and the newer units were pretty pricey.
It didn't seem to be a great gain over what I had.
I was able to sell it for what I paid for it ... working fine.

 

[hjames]

In Feb 2020, I tried the KEiiD Wifi Streamer. Very affordable. about $80 shipped!
Analog Stereo out with Subwoofer out. Digital S/PDif Coaxial out & optical out,
Aux In, LAN and Wifi ports.
Once I got it and started to set it up, I couldn't find any way to load my WiFi network password into its config for secure connection. Bad security ruled that device out VERY quickly!

And - there was no help from the manufacturer - many broken pages and links on their website in cheesey english ...
Paranoid as I am, bad security is a dealbreaker for me, so I packed it up and shipped it back about a week later.

[Factory Pix]

 

[hjames]

More recently, I tried the BlueSound Node 2i. Its a bit pricer than some of the other Streamers I tried - on sale for $475 shipped. It was delivered Oct 27! I had downloaded the iPhone App earlier.
Did a fast hookup since I'm teleworking - using the optical out to my Audio Alchemy DAC for now (simply swapped it in place where my Airport Express was).
Once connected, the Node 2i wanted to do some software updates. Done.
Logged into Qobuz - that went well - but will take some time to see my MacPro and all of the files there.
I later grabbed a pair of Phono cables - my Acurus RL11 preamp only has 4 inputs!
So I unplugged my Carver tuner and plugged the Node2i in its place (no real radio in DC these days).
My initial impression - I'll need to give this a good listen over the weekend.
But - if it's basically just a replacement tuner for Streaming services,
or a replacement for my Airport when sending music from the MacPro,
I think it will go back pretty quickly.
Later -

I did use the Node 2i's DAC and ran RCA cables to a spare port on my preamp - and did lot of quick listens to HiRes tracks on Qobuz. Even the HiRes track were not a huge leap in fidelity over the DDE v3 - maybe even an equivalent experience.
I mean, it shouldn't be - using the Airport when listening to Qobuz tops out at CD quality.
Maybe my ears are old and scrambled (sorry Eno) ... but is the Node 2i a $500 improvement?
For me, I can't say that it is -

After a tip from a local friend who says he is never impressed with digital optical feeds, I rewired the Node 2i into my system. Now I have the L/R RCA analog out jacks still tied to the tuner input jacks in my preamp. That utilizes the DAC in the Node 2i.
I took the Coaxial Digital out jack and tied that to the s/pdif BNC coaxial input on my AA DDE v3 DAC (bypassing the Node 2i internal DAC).
So, by switching the input selector from DA to Tuner, I can compare the 2 DACs using the Qobuz streaming signal.
Final Opinion - After a lot of demos via Qobuz and Radio Paradise in different configurations - Its a well done piece, the interface is useful - but the DAC is no audible improvement over my Audio Alchemy DAC.

So for me, it's just about the Streaming "tuner", and since I really only have one streaming service - I don't think it's worth $500 for me.
I submitted a request for return to Amazon - repacked it over the weekend, and dropped it off at UPS. Ah well.

 

[hjames]

And this week, I got an Audioengine F-BI - Its TINY!
It's the tiny white piece with the black faceplate and antenna to the right of my Carver tuner.
About the size of a tin of Altoids - smaller than the white Apple Airport beside it!
And affordable - roughly $200 shipped.

But it's very confusing when looking through the specs. On a couple websites it's listed saying

• built-in 24-bit/192kHz DAC supports high-res playback

But when I went through the Qobuz app or the AudioEngine app, no matter how I set Qobuz, the highest I get is CD quality -
And when digging through the AudioEngine website, in a list of "more Questions", I finally saw
"all audio is transmitted at 16-bit 44.1kHz."
Sadly, there is no high-resolution playback of streaming services through this hardware!

I've already printed the Amazon Return label ... a shame, because it's really an easy setup,
its compact and unobtrusive, and has many good things going for it otherwise!
Built in presets in the AudioEngine App for the major services, and for things like Radio Paradise that don't have a preset, I can use their app and just output to the AudioEngine "speaker."

But, since my pre-existing Apple Airport with the Audio Alchemy DAC works just fine for CD quality playback, so why spend money to do what I can already do? sigh ...

 

[hjames]

And grabbing posts in sequence now, that I can edit and fill out later today.
But first, time for a bit of breakfast!

 

[tomlinmgt]

I admire your tenacity and have made note of your comments in other threads. I hear ya on the price tag for the Node 2i being a little steep for streaming duty only (for those of us with stand alone DAC) and I resisted getting one for a long time because of it. But one day it hit me like the prop wash from a B-36...

"You can't skimp on tweaking your source, Michael. You've spent countless hours researching and fiddling with various devices trying to do this on the cheap...and it ain't pannin' out, man. If you were one of those vinyl fools, $500 bucks would just get you into a better than decent cartridge. $500 for a device that will deliver digitized music about as cleanly and accurately as someone with my means could reasonably ask for, and enable me to use my hand held device as a controller (and a very good one, at that) is actually a damn good value." Cue trumpets.

So, that was the conversation I had with señor Logic a few weeks ago. And the results with said Node 2i were so successful, I now feel like a chump for denying myself for such a long time. But here's where señor Cheap comes back into the picture. It seems the primary difference between the Node 2 and 2i has to do with the DAC section. So if I'm going to be bypassing the internal converter and using a stand alone unit, why not just grab up a gently used Node 2 for hundreds less than a 2i, instead? The rationale seemed so obvious that I immediately went to locating a used Node 2 and found one within minutes at a price I was very comfortable with. I'll be comparing the Node 2i and my recently arrived Node 2 over the next few weeks to see if I can hear a difference.

 

[hjames]

Thanks for the great feedback.
One thing for me is I'm not retired yet,
so I really only get a few hours on a Saturday to chill and pleasure-listen.
I could run music downstairs during the week while I telework -
but it's more of a distraction during teleconferences,
especially with engineers and developers with heavy accents.
(No flames meant, just facts.)

 

[ldatlof]

If you don't mind a little DIY and can follow directions then for less than $200 you can play hi-res. All you need is a Raspberry Pi 4($50) and a new DAC capable of playing 192/16 ($100). Download and install piCorePlayer (free) to the Pi. Then configure pCP using a browser.

pCP is an OS, which runs in RAM, for the RPi that has LMS (the server) and Squeezelite (the player) combined. Qobuz, Tidal and Radio Paradise are integrated in to LMS. Of course you will have access to your own files too. You can control everything from a phone, tablet or computer that is on the same network as the Pi. I highly recommend the material skin which is made to be used with a phone's browser. The are also free and paid apps too.

Set up in not hard and should take no more than a half hour. You only have to do it once unless you change DACs (which should be accomplished in 30 seconds). Additional players can be added for $20 (not including the price of a DAC) by using an RPi Zero W with only Squeezelite turned on in pCP.

Here is a link to how it's done: https://docs.picoreplayer.org/getting-started/

This is not for everyone, but if you can do it, you will end up with a rock solid hi-res player that is constantly updated.

 

[hjames]

I don't have wired ethernet in the house. Sounds like that may be a limitation with the Raspberry Pi4 server.

 

[ldatlof]

I don't have wired ethernet in the house. Sounds like that may be a limitation with the Raspberry Pi4 server.

It works perfectly well on Wifi which is built in to the RPi4. It just a little easier to setup using an ethernet connection but not necessary. You could plug it into one of the Airport Extreme's LAN ports for setup.

The RPi4 in my main system is only connected via WiFi. The WiFi router and the Pi are at opposite ends of a 3,600 sq/ft house. It never stutters or drops out.

 

[hjames]

Thank you. That might be something to look into after Thanksgiving.
I played with a Raspberry PI 3 a few years back.
I returned it, but still have some MicroSD cards and the adapter to load them with my Macpro.

 

[hjames]

Taking another trial on the KEiiD gadget. Ordered yesterday, it arrived at 1800 (6PM) today.
Unpacked it, pulled the AudioEngine device offline, popped the KEiiD in its place, plugged in the Optical cable and power supply,
Then walked through setup.
Switched between the direct Qobuz App, the AudioEngine App and the Audio Pro app -
when it does give a data rate, it's always CD quality, no matter what I set the Qobuz app to be.

But frankly, I raked leaves and did yard work today after church and after everything else, its time to chill.

And honestly, if it's gonna be CD quality, I'd rather do it with an $80 device than a $200 device.
(The AudioEngine is packed to return tomorrow)

Dropped it at the UPS store today and Amazon's issued the refund already 11/23 @ 1630!

 

[ldatlof]

It looks like the setup went more smoothly this time. What is the optical out connected to?

a response as to whether this unit supports 192/24 on amazon:

Usually, our optical port can only support 44 KHz 16 bit files, if you want to stream 192 KHz files, it will play them at a lower rate and the sound will be different from the orginal files.

 

[hjames]

The Optical out feeds my Audio Alchemy DAC, same as I did with the AudioEngine, and same as I did with the Airport Express.
Perhaps it went more smoothly since I had the Audio Engine app installed already, and already had the Pro Audio app installed, and I didn't try to install the Muzo app this time.
If the optical port is a limitation, tomorrow I can switch to the KEiiD Coaxial S/PDIF port and the Coaxial port on the AA DAC.
But - the software apps show "CD Quality" no matter how I set the default in Qobuz ...
I'm inclined to think the limitation is due to the Apple Wifi
The only other option is to try a pair of "ethernet over powerline" adapters I have
and see if skipping the wifi makes a difference, although "Powerline ethernet" is not a fat pipe.

 

[ldatlof]

I don't think the Audio Alchemy DAC can play hi-res files. It is limited to 44.1/16. If you want to hear 96/24 or better you should try going directly from the Keiid to your preamp via RCA cables.

 

[hjames]

I don't think the Audio Alchemy DAC can play hi-res files. It is limited to 44.1/16. If you want to hear 96/24 or better you should try going directly from the Keiid to your preamp via RCA cables.

I'll switch over to RCA cables later today and try that, but I would expect the player software to show me HiRes numbers for the Qobuz file if that's the file its playing, no matter what DAC it's actually outboarded to ... Yet all I ever see displayed is CD Quality.

But if its only working with Airplay and not Airplay 2, that may be all it ever does.

So if I hook up ethernet cable from the Airport Express to the KEiiD device, to try and use Airplay 2, how to I force the KEiiD to use ethernet for input and not the WiFi I configured?

 

[totem]

Airplay 2

Any limits on Airplay 2 resolution?

 

[hjames]

I did some lunchtime searching on Airplay vs Airplay 2 and found this at Apple Support.
(Tech specs are a bit hard to find, but I'll have to dig further once I'm on my Macpro)
Apparently the last Airport firmware update added that feature:
(My Airport Express units are on 7.8.1)


Firmware update 7.8 adds AirPlay 2 support to 802.11n AirPort Express base stations.
For more information on the security content of this update see: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT201222
For detailed information on AirPort base station firmware updates, including instructions how to install the update, please visit: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT201519
For more information on using AirPort products, go to the Product Support Page
at: http://www.apple.com/support/airport

 

[hjames]

I finally have the Qobuz app showing Hi-Res 96k when playing some Stevie Ray Vaughan (Tin Pan Alley) -
shows the same thing when I play Analog out of the KEiiD into my preamp,
or when using the Optical Out into the AA DAC - (which we know is probably limited to 24 bit 48k max ...)