ads L1230's - time for grill repair - 11.9.2021

[avguytx]

I've been reading on these, and the other ads models, and it seems most people are inclined to send both their tweeters AND mids in to be redone at the same time. My tweeters are both bad and that's a given but the mids both meter the same. I would do the crossovers myself if they need it but they do have basic film caps in them already. How much of a true difference will it make pulling film caps out and the stock resistors and replace them with, say, Solen caps and Mills resistors? If I don't have to spend it, I'd rather not. But those electrolytic caps on the woofer circuit are pushing 40 years and I know those can swing all over the place.

 

[avguytx]

Richard received the tweeters on Friday so maybe not too long on those. I decided not to send the mids out just yet as I want to hear them like they are first. I'm hoping those and the woofers are good to go.

A question for those who have Lxx30 series....is the black pain on the back more of a satin finish or black? Both backs need to be repainted.

 

[avguytx]

Well, as soon as I say that, I get an email that they are done and ready to go. Sweet!

 

[avguytx]

Tweeters made it back today so, if time allows, I'm going to load the drivers back in tonight and find some fuses. I don't have any 1.6A fuses around but have some 1's and 2's for sure. I meant to order them before now but it slipped my mind...which seems to happen more now. Hopefully all of the other drivers will be working properly as I didn't really give them a big listen when I first got them since the tweeters were out. At least they all seemed to meter ok and consistent. Next steps will be to paint the backs, lightly sand the wood and get some oil on them, build new bases for both, then redo the grill cloth. I might do the crossovers at some point. I'd asked Richard about them in various emails but he's not very talkative about anything else other than the tweeters arrived, the tweeters are fixed, received payment/thanks, tweeters have shipped back. lol

 

[Blue Shadow]

Well get that order in. But I would get a 5-pack of 1.5A fuses from the local store that might have them, hardware store I guess. Order and use the 1.6 for a bit more power before the fuse dies if you are so inclined to dump power into your speakers.

 

[avguytx]

Well get that order in. But I would get a 5-pack of 1.5A fuses from the local store that might have them, hardware store I guess. Order and use the 1.6 for a bit more power before the fuse dies if you are so inclined to dump power into your speakers.

I just hate going to the local electrical supply store and getting charged $6 to $7 for 5 little AGC fuses. Over a dollar a piece? Sheesh... @damacman Didn't we pay like $.05 or less for these things back in the day? lol

 

[Blue Shadow]

Then get that letter in the mail to Digikey. Be to you before you know it plus the few day delay because of the new more efficient postal operations instituted by the new Postmaster General.

 

[avguytx]

Apparently have one rattling woofer out of four. I'll pull it in a bit and check the spider since the surround is attached. But most likely a voice coil. Kind of comes and goes while playing but still.

Edit: Sounds like two woofers now. Sheesh.

 

[Spiceman50]

Move the woofer to the other cab and see if the rattling follows it over. If it does, then obviously it will need attention. However if the rattling stays in the other cab, then you may have an issue with the crossover, and more specific... the bi-amp switch which has become loose possibly over time.

There have been discussions regarding this about the forums. I've had the issue myself.

My best
Garry~

 

[avguytx]

Move the woofer to the other cab and see if the rattling follows it over. If it does, then obviously it will need attention. However if the rattling stays in the other cab, then you may have an issue with the crossover, and more specific... the bi-amp switch which has become loose possibly over time.

There have been discussions regarding this about the forums. I've had the issue myself.

My best
Garry~

Awesome info.. thanks, Garry. I haven't had the crossovers out yet but will get to them eventually...maybe this weekend. I figured I'd try them out and see what next direction I needed to go. Swapping drivers is definitely an easy thing to do...but that will be this weekend, too. It did actually remind me of how switches act on old silver gear, and others, when they get old. And they're approaching 40 years old now.

Thanks again for the heads up.

 

[Spiceman50]

You Know, I developed this problem about 3 years after I sent my crossovers in to Richard So. In my case, strange as it was, the problem happened in both my L1230's almost at the same time. However, I was lucky to have some 810's which have similar parts, and Isolate the issue to the crossovers by switching parts. Sent the crossovers in and Mr. So said the problem was in the bi-amp switch. Couple of months later 2 AK'ers developed the same issue.

All that said, I just picked up a pair of L1530's also in for repairs. However, they will not be replacing the L1230's. I'll run the 1530's on another system.

I love my 1230's. Such a lovely well balance monitor. Bass is tight, highs are sweet. Nothing about them are fatiguing. I smile every time they are on. Very happy you have a set. Your gonna love them.

You say you have a grill problem? I'm on my phone and at work, but maybe when I get home tomorrow I can offer you some help there?

 

[avguytx]

You Know, I developed this problem about 3 years after I sent my crossovers in to Richard So. In my case, strange as it was, the problem happened in both my L1230's almost at the same time. However, I was lucky to have some 810's which have similar parts, and Isolate the issue to the crossovers by switching parts. Sent the crossovers in and Mr. So said the problem was in the bi-amp switch. Couple of months later 2 AK'ers developed the same issue.

All that said, I just picked up a pair of L1530's also in for repairs. However, they will not be replacing the L1230's. I'll run the 1530's on another system.

I love my 1230's. Such a lovely well balance monitor. Bass is tight, highs are sweet. Nothing about them are fatiguing. I smile every time they are on. Very happy you have a set. Your gonna love them.

You say you have a grill problem? I'm on my phone and at work, but maybe when I get home tomorrow I can offer you some help there?

That's good information to know on those crossovers and it does make sense as @Spiceman50 mentioned, too. It's a switch like on older electronics...it passes current and it gets dirty. Maybe I'll have some time to work on those switches. I've not taken the crossovers out yet so I hope there's enough wire to remove them from the back. If not, a woofer can come out again.

Grill problem wise, I had to be smarter than the grill and figure out they lifted up to remove. haha. Looks like people in the past didn't know that either and I'll have to do a little repair on them and ultimately recover them as they look pretty shoddy.

Thanks again for the info.

 

[Spiceman50]

First, on the speaker cloth. I did a lot of searching a few years ago for a fabric that matched fabric on the L1230's and never found it. I did find something close, but the link I saved no longer works I see. It was not easy for me to find that fabric and I did request several samples from several vendors. The weave was one issue then finding a sample that was true black. There are so many variations of Black.

When removing the Crossovers, it may be tight. I had/have to hold the crossover with one hand and have a needle nose pliers in the other to pull the wires while holding the crossover partly inside mounting hole. Pulling the speakers will not help, unless you disturb the putty that ADS used to seal the hole where the speaker wires passed though from one chamber to the other. I don't recommend that only because it can be added work and time to your project to remove and replace that putty and it's just not necessary. Best way to pull the crossover is to lift the left side of the crossover and roll it out. The speaker terminals keep it from just pulling them out straight. I'll post a picture of the correct wiring .

Garry~

 

[avguytx]

@Spiceman50 I sent an email back to Richard asking about grill cloth but he doesn't mess with grills. He recommended AK or e b a y. lol It might be salvageable but I haven't really spent a lot of time on them yet. Finding grill cloth for these is about as tough as finding the original brown-ish style/color for Norman Lab speakers...which I ended up going basic black and they were fine. I know the newer cloth is more thin versus the original ads cloth.

I had thought at first I might rewire them with some larger gauge wire but decided against it when I saw the putty and of course the point of diminishing returns. I'll just clean the contacts on all the drivers and connectors and call it good.

 

[Spiceman50]

I feel bad about the cloth, actually it was Richard that found that fabric for me at the time, this was a few years ago. I had so many samples and nothing close. So I asked Richard and he sent me that link, and not only was it the cheapest or one of them, it was as close as I had found so far. Not so much the weave, but the color too.

Glad you had second thoughts on disturbing the Putty. Not that it can't be done, but it's only a convenience factor for pulling the crossovers and you can do it with a little effort without having to mess with it. By the way, the putty was still good after 40 years when I did it on some L810's. I just had to knead it again.

Garry~

 

[avguytx]

Well, these crossovers are rather interesting in getting to the actual components. Apparently you have to desolder the 4 speaker connection legs on the board and straighten for the board to lift off. Took a lot of solder wick for that...ha. (I don't have a solder sucker anymore for some reason) But, I got them apart and cleaned the plastic cups, used some Deoxit F5 on the switches and hopefully that will help with the woofer noises. I also used some Deoxit on the crossover terminals and the speaker jacks while I was there. Terminal cups are cleaned up, too.

I removed the 100uf electrolytic caps so I can replace them and I wanted to measure them anyway. One measured 125uf and the other 115uf so one was within a 20% tolerance. They will be replaced, regardless. Anyone have an idea what brand those caps are? Looks like the letters "SH" but I have no idea of brand...just whoever was the supplier years ago. Still deliberating on replacing the caps and resistors with something new or just leaving them and go with it; except the electrolytics.

I'll just leave them apart until I get the crossover parts in as I still need to paint the backs and sand/oil the wood. There's a couple of rough spots on the back sides of the bases which seems to almost be common. Need to get some oak to make some new bases, too. All in due time.



Forgot to take a picture of these all cleaned up. Oops

 

[Spiceman50]

Nice work on those Crossovers. Your a better man then I for jumping in on those. First time I pulled mine I was like .... so what's that guy's name in Arizona again? ...

When I first started reading this thread it was via my phone, I started from the top again just a bit ago this time on my pc and got a better view of the speakers. Are the Risers totally gone, or are they warn down. The pic looks like they are gone. If so, be very careful with the bottom trim. That too is made of compressed wood and it will snap on you in a heart beat if you tilt the cabs where there is any weight on those trim boards. Is there a corner piece missing on the left speaker bottom trim board. Gonna be interesting to see how you replace that. I have no doubt what so ever you will/can. But I'm all in on watching.

Home Depot will have the Oak boards you can use for the risers I'll measure mine if you need the measurements.

Garry~

 

[Orthodynamic]

Garry, you have a good eye. I didn't notice the missing risers at all.

avguytx, if it helps at all, here's a schematic of the ADS L1230 crossover.

Also, here's a post with an image of a crossover that Richard So restored as well as a post with some more detailed photos of the same restoration. Two interesting things to note: despite conventional wisdom that film caps don't need replacing, he replaced them, and he replaced the 100 uF cap with two 50 uF caps in parallel.

 

[avguytx]

@Orthodynamic Yes, I had seen those posts about the crossovers which sparked my interest in Richard's choice in capacitors. They have a similar look to orange drop caps but maybe they're some other basic brand. Apparently he doesn't buy into the big capacitor game like so many. I read how many people don't care for the Solen caps but I have been using them for about 30 years now along with Mills resistors and don't have a gripe about their sound. I have tinnitus and some HF hearing loss from about 12khz on up so, if Solens are "brighter" or more harsh, maybe they work in my favor. I've literally used hundreds of Solen caps in the last 30 years. Maybe having tinnitus is in my favor as I don't have to spend more money on higher priced caps to get good results. Lol.

@Spiceman50 The risers are still there but in bad shape. That particle board doesn't hold up worth a crap for 40 years of being moved around. Even the lower walnut trim area isn't in great shape. I'll have to do something with that most likely. Might redo the whole bottom and do them in a satin black finish so I'm not trying to match walnut stain. Could also make a base that is a little more stable, and usable/functional, than what's currently there.

I have bo problem with wood working. These Klipsch Belle inspired closes were my last build I did in late 2017.



And here's a recently re-veneered Pioneer PL-518 turntable I did with leftover ribbon mahogany from my Belles. Much better than the original gray.

 

[Spiceman50]

That bottom trim is not walnut. It's compressed wood with Walnut veneer. So is the back/side trim. Which, was a total surprise to me at the time when I had to repair mine. Makes sense ADS wouldn't have used solid Walnut due to expense.

Those Belle's are BEAUTIFUL! So is that PL-518. Last year I started my first time ever Veneering a PL-560 plinth with Birdseye Maple. It wasn't bad for a first attempt, but I'm not happy with it so I'm going to start over. I know the silver vinyl from which you speak. My plan ... when the weather cooperates a bit more, (it's 106 in Dallas), is to strip this plinth, re-veneer in Burl, mount the table on the Burl Plinth, then with lessons learned, veneer the original in Birdseye, and remount the table.