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Advice for a beginner

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darthdave

New Member
Hey guys I am an aspiring audiophile coming out of the world of digital music and I am starting to fool around with analog mighty hard so..... I just bought my first turntable the other day at a yard sale, a Technics SL D35 It has what I assume is the original Shure LTP-2 cartridge on it and I am wondering how much money I can spend upgrading this record player with a new cartridge or tonearm etc, before it becomes dumb and pointless. I only spent 3 dollars on it so Im not afraid to put a few bucks in it. I eventually plan to but a Project Debut III but that could be a while in the future.
 
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hmmm....I can't picture that model - do you have any pics?

Does it look like this one? - an SL-D33

Rob
 

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In the future, I would seek a vintage turntable as opposed to the Pro-Ject Debut. The reason for this is that the Pro-Ject lacks a 'blokus' thick plinth/base. Call me insane, but for some reason, I like to see a substantial mass beneath the record platter and I cannot stand thin bases such as some of the entry level Pro-Ject, Rega and Thorens current offerings. One needs to have at least a couple inches of thickness to the base. The only thing that would be acceptable to offset a thin base, would be an ultra thick platter. There are indeed many options in the vintage market. Again, I am slightly kooky on this.

:D

:screwy:
 
I kind of doubt that was the original cartridge, but it doesn't matter. The LTP-2 is a rebadged M94LT, a .4 x .7 elliptical. LPgear carries replacement styli

Here are some .2 x .7 ellipticals, a step up:
http://www.garage-a-records.com/proddetail.php?prod=N94LT

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=SHN094LTI

And JICO makes this excellent hyperelliptical:
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=SHN097LTI

If I'm not mistaken the SL-D35 was a changer. Did yours come with the long spindle?

Beyond a new stylus or cartridge, any further changes are pointless. It's actually a decent table just as it is.
 
MaxSeven said:
In the future, I would seek a vintage turntable as opposed to the Pro-Ject Debut. The reason for this is that the Pro-Ject lacks a 'blokus' thick plinth/base. Call me insane, but for some reason, I like to see a substantial mass beneath the record platter and I cannot stand thin bases such as some of the entry level Pro-Ject, Rega and Thorens current offerings. One needs to have at least a couple inches of thickness to the base. The only thing that would be acceptable to offset a thin base, would be an ultra thick platter. There are indeed many options in the vintage market. Again, I am slightly kooky on this.

:D

:screwy:
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you on this subject.
 
MaxSeven said:
In the future, I would seek a vintage turntable as opposed to the Pro-Ject Debut. The reason for this is that the Pro-Ject lacks a 'blokus' thick plinth/base. Call me insane, but for some reason, I like to see a substantial mass beneath the record platter and I cannot stand thin bases such as some of the entry level Pro-Ject, Rega and Thorens current offerings. One needs to have at least a couple inches of thickness to the base. The only thing that would be acceptable to offset a thin base, would be an ultra thick platter. There are indeed many options in the vintage market. Again, I am slightly kooky on this.

:D

:screwy:
Click to expand...

Not really, they're simply two different design strategies. As I understand it, the Rega turntables are designed specifically to have low mass as the designer believes mass only serves to trap resonance, which is ultimately picked up by your cartridge. There are benefits and drawbacks to both designs. I would recommend the exact opposite and tell you to buy a new turntable if you can afford it, and you'll more than likely get better performance out of it in the end, especially with a great cartridge. I own both a vintage Thorens TD125 MKII and a new Pro-Ject RM-5, and in basically every way the Pro-Ject is better than the Thorens. Sorry to break anyone's heart there.:D
 
Mr. Lin said:
Not really, they're simply two different design strategies. As I understand it, the Rega turntables are designed specifically to have low mass as the designer believes mass only serves to trap resonance, which is ultimately picked up by your cartridge. There are benefits and drawbacks to both designs. I would recommend the exact opposite and tell you to buy a new turntable if you can afford it, and you'll more than likely get better performance out of it in the end, especially with a great cartridge. I own both a vintage Thorens TD125 MKII and a new Pro-Ject RM-5, and in basically every way the Pro-Ject is better than the Thorens. Sorry to break anyone's heart there.:D
Click to expand...

Certainly, if one can afford an upper model such as the Pro-Ject RM-5, then I also would go for that; Most definitely! The RM-5 is awesome.

I must point out that the RM-5 has a fairly thick platter and base, and is not what I was referring to in terms of wimpy physical design proportions, such as the Pro-Ject Debut III, Rega P1 or Music Hall MMF 2.2, which all have thinner, foolish looking base proportions and thinner platters. While they may sound nice, they don't have 'the look'.

The original post by darthdave stated that he wanted to get an entry level model, such as the Debut III. If that is all that can be afforded, then all I am saying is one can obtain a vintage table that is far superior in physical aesthetics, and should sound just as good as an entry level new table.

Of course this is my opinion only, and one should buy whatever they like. I just felt obliged to voice a concern.

:D
 
The TT you have will work fine (assuming it is working up to spec) for your entry into vinyl. I suggest you get a few universal headshells off eBay or somewhere, and get a couple of cartridges as time and budget permit. Technics tables are quite for magnetically sensitive cartridges. But just to be sure, look yours up in the cartridge data base thread.

Anyway I would suggest a Grado (maybe a black to start) as your first alternative. Have it mounted in a spare shell and when you run into an LP that sounds a bit dry or cold, swap in the Grado. You'll like the sound. It's not always appropriate, but it is very useful for some LPs, especially when trying to get the best sound off of them for ripping or taping :)
 
Mr. Lin said:
Not really, they're simply two different design strategies. As I understand it, the Rega turntables are designed specifically to have low mass as the designer believes mass only serves to trap resonance, which is ultimately picked up by your cartridge. There are benefits and drawbacks to both designs. I would recommend the exact opposite and tell you to buy a new turntable if you can afford it, and you'll more than likely get better performance out of it in the end, especially with a great cartridge. I own both a vintage Thorens TD125 MKII and a new Pro-Ject RM-5, and in basically every way the Pro-Ject is better than the Thorens. Sorry to break anyone's heart there.:D
Click to expand...
No hearts broken here. You're absolutely correct on the two different design strategies. It all depends on what you like better, sound wise.
 
Broc's suggestions are good ones. Play around with what you have and experiment with different cartridges to see what flavor suits your ears. The Grado Black is a good, affordable crowd-pleaser and you might keep an eye peeled for a used Audio-Technica AT-115 or a AT-120. They're a touch less warm (or less "wooly" depending on your take) than the Grados, but retain excellent bass slam.
- Mario
 
MaxSeven said:
Certainly, if one can afford an upper model such as the Pro-Ject RM-5, then I also would go for that; Most definitely! The RM-5 is awesome.

I must point out that the RM-5 has a fairly thick platter and base, and is not what I was referring to in terms of wimpy physical design proportions, such as the Pro-Ject Debut III, Rega P1 or Music Hall MMF 2.2, which all have thinner, foolish looking base proportions and thinner platters. While they may sound nice, they don't have 'the look'.

The original post by darthdave stated that he wanted to get an entry level model, such as the Debut III. If that is all that can be afforded, then all I am saying is one can obtain a vintage table that is far superior in physical aesthetics, and should sound just as good as an entry level new table.

Of course this is my opinion only, and one should buy whatever they like. I just felt obliged to voice a concern.

:D
Click to expand...

I understand what you're saying, but I still don't think the Debut III is flimsy or cheap, it's a different approach, though obviously there are going to be some compromises at that price point. It's the strength of the tonearms on some of those entry-level turntables that makes me think it's often a better way to go. It depends on what your options are, I guess.

In the meantime I agree with Broc that the OP will be just fine with what he has to get started. No use in exposing him to how terribly complicated this will all become just yet. :thmbsp:
 
Mr. Lin said:
I understand what you're saying, but I still don't think the Debut III is flimsy or cheap...
Click to expand...

I wasn't suggesting that it was cheap, in fact, I'm sure the Debut III is of high quality. I was commenting on the LOOK of the turntable. I think a good way to describe it is that the design looks rather delicate and petite (like it could blow away in the wind, even though it wouldn't) as opposed to the hefty, masculine, weighty-chunk, wide-stance, thick plinth/platter designs. The former being a no-no in my book. :nono:
 
Hey guys wow I will try to answer some questions back for you. First of all it looks like this!
 

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For three bucks I can't complain. As for a vintage record player I would like to own one of everything if I could but the Project DIII Is what I picked simply for the usb port and the price range. Yea like 500 bucks or so. I would definitely love to get a huge heavy vintage one someday I love stuff like that. My gramps has a Thorens from the days before stereo a big freakin huge massive wooden based one. I assume he bought it in 1957 along with the two 60 watt Mcintosh tube amps and vintage preamp he still runs on some really old Klipsh Speakers....Droooool.
 
Also whats the difference between a curved arm and a straight one. And thanks for the cartridge selection list guys. Im just getting used to all of this sound terminology like warm, and dry and cold but I am not sure my receiver is capable of wooly LOL. Also explain to me a universal headshell I sort of get it but am I replacing the whole tip of the toe arm? It must allow you to use different brands of cartridge?
 
Wow that looks very close to my SL-D30. Here are some nice cartridges for P-mount (T4P) arms like that:

Mine has an AT92e cartridge. It sounds very good and can be had for cheap

Here are some other choices:

Grado seems to make their "color" lineup in P mount
A lower cost alternative would be like the above mentioned AT92e or the Shure M92e
LPGear seems to have quite a range: http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=T4P

Hope that helps!
 
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