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Advice on Next Upgrade

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Pat Heenan

New Member
Hi everyone! I'm looking to spend no more than $500 to upgrade my current system. How would that budget be best spent to get a noticeable sound improvement?

Here is what I'm currently using:

  • Pioneer SA-950 Stereo Integrated Amplifier
  • Klipsch R-15M Bookshelf Monitor Speakers
  • Musical Fidelity: V90-LPS Phono Stage
  • Audio-Technica ATLP120
  • Audio-Technica VM530EN Dual Moving Magnet Elliptical Stylus Stereo Turntable Cartridge
I'm thinking the speakers might be the weak link in this setup but I don't know what I'm doing and would really appreciate some advice.

Thanks!
 
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rebellovw said:
Easy. Get a sub. You should be able to get a nice one for 500.
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interesting. Since I have a 2 channel amp it looks like I’ll need a powered sub with speaker outs. Is there any disadvantage to using a sub on a system that isn’t designed to do so?
 
Pat Heenan said:
interesting. Since I have a 2 channel amp it looks like I’ll need a powered sub with speaker outs. Is there any disadvantage to using a sub on a system that isn’t designed to do so?
Click to expand...
Not at all I’ve done it many times - always great results. Should be a substantial improvement in sound.
 
I don't know what it's like where you are, but on the used market local to me $500 would easily move you up a step on amplification and a few steps up in speakers.
 
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It also depends on your goals - if you are going to be upgrading in another 6+ months with 500.00 and again and again - it makes more sense to migrate from your entry level system - into your end goal system - that means saving more and buying some substantial speakers - used etc - could be 1K+, substantial turntable 1K+. If you are completely content and just want a big jump for 500$ - them subwoofer would be awesome.
 
This is one of those sorta questions that can be really tough to answer.
I say that as most all suggestions are gonna be valid ones.
And very few suggestions wont have any merit what-so-ever.

Example would be the folks that are gonna say "put it in the room itself".
Absolutely valid point,but it's not one that always "scratches that upgrade itch".
And so it goes.

If I were in this boat,best I could do is to just keep my eyes open and wait to see what popped up.
If nothing caught my interest and the money was burning a whole in my pocket...
Well then something like a decent sub would probably be the winner by default.

But yeah wise shopping could likely do both,different speakers + a nice sub.
Case in point my headphone/nearfield system's speaker & sub (Canton GL-260 & Canton AS85-SC sub).
I bought both those for something like $250.00 between the two,and the sub was NIB unopened @ $150.00 + shipping.
And to me the SQ from that combo is superb,bordering on amazing.

So yeah there are deals out there if one is ready to jump on them immediately when you run across them.
The real trick is knowing what constitutes a great deal and what's just an average everyday price.

FWIW

Bret P.
 
Pat Heenan said:
interesting. Since I have a 2 channel amp it looks like I’ll need a powered sub with speaker outs. Is there any disadvantage to using a sub on a system that isn’t designed to do so?
Click to expand...

Not at all. For 2-channel, I actually prefer driving a sub with speaker-level outputs over line-level. The reason I prefer speaker level (for 2-channel only, not for home theater) is because you want the sub to be a seamless extension of the main speakers, and when you drive the sub with speaker-level outputs it sees the exact same signal that your mains are receiving (both will have whatever minor coloration the amp has versus the speakers having amp color and the sub being driven by only the preamp).

Not everybody agrees with the above, stating that driving the preamp provides a cleaner signal to the sub. That argument is 100% accurate, but my experience is that driving both subs/mains with amp coloration is better than driving the mains with one signal and driving the sub with a slightly different signal. Most of the people I've seen argue for using line-level haven't actually tried speaker-level for music.
 
I've tried several ways of driving a powered subwoofer. I've also tried a passive subwoofer. My preference is to use an external electronic crossover for passive or powered subs.
 
I've always used the crossover on the sub - works like a champ. This is my office setup - unbelievable how good it sounds.

This is a no-brainer - find a powered sub on Amazon - well reviewed - free shipping etc- try it out - send it back if it doesn't work out. You may only be out shipping one way - but double check the return policy - I've yet to find Amazon not take something back - just take super great care of all the packing material and the product itself.
 
JoeESP9 said:
I've tried several ways of driving a powered subwoofer. I've also tried a passive subwoofer. My preference is to use an external electronic crossover for passive or powered subs.
Click to expand...

Most powered subs that can be driven by speaker-level inputs will have a built-in crossover, level, and probably phase that allow it to be tuned to the mains quite well without requiring an external crossover.

I did try using a Velodyne SMS-1 external crossover on my 2-channel system to blend a Sunfire sub with Soliloquy 6.3 mains. I tuned it with a mic and experimented with the curves quite a bit, but I was never happy with the sub's integration with the mains. Finally I ditched the SMS-1 and used the Sunfire's simple crossover/level/phase to tune it and am much happier with the sound that way.

My theory (which is a complete guess and might be dead wrong) is that the digital processing in the SMS-1 added some tiny amount of delay that prevented the sub from pairing seamlessly with the mains. Whatever the cause, a lot of careful tuning of the Sunfire's direct sub controls worked much better than what I could do with the infinitely more powerful controls on the SMS-1. I suspect the issues I saw with the SMS-1 wouldn't occur with a non-digital external crossover.
 
rebellovw said:
I've always used the crossover on the sub - works like a champ. This is my office setup - unbelievable how good it sounds.
Click to expand...

I agree with this very strongly. After being unhappy with the SMS-1 sub integration above, I tried running my 2-channel without a sub for a while with the Soliloquy 6.3's (which have pretty good output down to 30hz and slightly rolled off output at 25hz), but it still sounded so much better when the sub was added back in.

Adding a sub seems like the best investment, by far, for the OP. You don't really need a super deep sub for music, but finding one that is musical helps. I think a sealed sub is generally better for music than ported, though ported is more efficient.
 
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I've been using either powered or passive subs for 25? years. I started with the passive Acoustat SPW-1 and a pair of Spectra 22's. I then acquired a Paradigm electronic crossover and another power amp. IME using an external crossover has always improved the sound.

Currently I use a DBX-223SX driving a pair of bridged Crown XLS-402's and a pair of radically modified Dyna MKIII's to drive a pair of DIY TL subs (Crowns) and a pair of Magnepan MG-1.7's (MKIII's).

PS: I have a 12 band DSP in the feed to my subs only. My room is a dedicated and acoustically treated room. Extensive use of REW a laptop and a calibrated mic were used for adjusting things.
 
JoeESP9 said:
I've been using either powered or passive subs for 25? years. I started with the passive Acoustat SPW-1 and a pair of Spectra 22's. I then acquired a Paradigm electronic crossover and another power amp. IME using an external crossover has always improved the sound.

Currently I use a DBX-223SX driving a pair of bridged Crown XLS-402's and a pair of radically modified Dyna MKIII's to drive a pair of DIY TL subs (Crowns) and a pair of Magnepan MG-1.7's (MKIII's).

PS: I have a 12 band DSP in the feed to my subs only. My room is a dedicated and acoustically treated room. Extensive use of REW a laptop and a calibrated mic were used for adjusting things.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I haven't taken the REW plunge yet -- have the mic and XLR interface but just haven't had time to use it. That said, the SMS-1 external crossover is basically "REW in a box", you connect a computer monitor and XLR mic (a Velodyne-branded version of the standard mic used for REW) to the SMS-1 and it runs sweeps and then you can manually tweak settings based upon graphs. Once you have all the EQ levels set, it gives you 4 different buttons to choose on the fly from four variations of those EQ settings. I went through all of that and still could not be happy with the digital sub EQ.

All of the above was an analog 2-channel amp -- I don't know if results would be different using digital sub EQ with a modern AVR that is doing digital EQ on the main channels also.

It's good to hear everyone's feedback.
 
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