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Advise on a preamp for my system....active or passive?

MeatInStereo

MeatInStereo

Can outrun 80% of snakes
I am going between two preamps for my system. One is a Creek OBH-22 passive and the Sonic Frontiers Anthem SFL-1 active.

I am a bit in the woods about the math if a passive will work for you or not....

The system sounds amazing now without one and just adjusting the crossover gain. Although I love the sound adjusting the gain on the subs to match the Bev's is annoying....so its finally time for a preamp.

The Creek has a remote....very nice.... but I am more concerned about sound as once i set the volume its set for the listening period pretty much.

Also i think the Acurus sounds great to me despite reviews I have read about it being sterile....I like sterile. I am not a big fan of warm.

So...what would work best in my setup? The sig has the setup so you can then look up the specs of the Marantz CDP and Acurus Amp.
 
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Also...would an active help out in the 100 Hz to 400 Hz range? I think my blending of the subs and stats are really, really good but its not a punchy in the midbass as my QLS' setup I have....just wonderin :D
 
IMO, most people are better off with a preamp instead of a passive unless you don't necessarily need the system to produce max output, or unless you have high sensitivity speakers and or a fairly high gain amp.

I use a PassDIY B1 buffer preamp, which is akin to passive inasmuch as it has no gain. It sounds very good, excellent in fact, but under most condtions I can't get my systems to full output using it. Don't get me wrong, I'll get loud enough for most listening situations, but won't drive the system to WFO.

The right decsion really depends on some numbers from the other gear in your system...gain of the amplifer and speaker sensitivity, and how you use the system. Do you occasionally need/want MAX, or is something possibly less than that OK?
 
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I recommend the Parasound Halo series P3. It won't change your source and will be faithful to the rest of the system. It's really versatile and priced affordably. I love mine just speaking from experience.
 
I think the volume is more then loud without a pre right now...does that mean a passive would be ok?

Basically the sound is great now but the low pass is as 0 db at the crossover and the high pass is controlled with the crossover's gain knob....so if I don;t want it really loud...lets say -10db the low pass is still as 0db so I have to go to each sub and adjust.... If I could just set them both to zero at the crossover and adjust the gain at the pre I would be very happy.

haha....def don't want WFO :D
 
Old_Tech said:
I recommend the Parasound Halo series P3. It won't change your source and will be faithful to the rest of the system. It's really versatile and priced affordably. I love mine just speaking from experience.
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Not a bad recommend as John Curl is behind the Halo series over at Paarsound he also built my crossover too....thanks!
 
If you get enough volume now then a passive will be fine in that regard, bearing in mind that a passive will not give you any more volume than you have now; only less. A preamp might possibly give you more considering if you ever have a source with less output.

The more traditional passives bother the technical side of me a bit with the varying input and or output impedances, but there are people that swear by them (or at them too). Zero gain buffer preamps like the B1 are a shot at combining the simplicity/low parts count of the passive with the buffering effect of a preamp.
 
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whoaru99 said:
The right decsion really depends on some numbers from the other gear in your system...gain of the amplifer and speaker sensitivity, and how you use the system. Do you occasionally need/want MAX, or is something possibly less than that OK?
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I wouldn't say max...less is ok. If I turned the gain on the crossover from 7 o clock to about 1 oclock(0 db) Its very loud...almost dare I say...too loud. From 1 oclock the knob goes to about 5 oclock...never been past 1 oclock. Maybe I should just find out what preamp SpinalTap uses....I heard their's goes to 11.
 
whoaru99 said:
If you get enough volume now then a passive will be fine in that regard, bearing in mind that a passive will not give you any more volume than you have now; only less. A preamp might possibly give you more considering if you ever have a source with less output.

The more traditional passives bother the technical side of me a bit with the varying input and or output impedances, but there are people that swear by them (or at them too). Zero gain buffer preamps like the B1 are a shot at combining the simplicity/low parts count of the passive with the buffering effect of a preamp.
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I gotcha now... I thik i need a pre more for the high and low pass balance with eahc other. Gaining volume is not the problem n the least.

great post...that answered a couple of other questions.
 
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whoaru99 said:
If you get enough volume now then a passive will be fine in that regard, bearing in mind that a passive will not give you any more volume than you have now; only less. A preamp might possibly give you more considering if you ever have a source with less output.

The more traditional passives bother the technical side of me a bit with the varying input and or output impedances, but there are people that swear by them (or at them too). Zero gain buffer preamps like the B1 are a shot at combining the simplicity/low parts count of the passive with the buffering effect of a preamp.
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Can you explain the buffering a bit to me? Try and relate it to women as i have them figured out. :D
 
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whoaru99 said:
A bit? Hmmm...

http://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/54/index1.html
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A bit...wow nice article....I think I can teach a night class on the subject matter now.

Hmmmm....Can you connect an active to a passive to get a remote?

So a passive witha buffer will change the sound I hear now without using a preamp but its not chnaging the source's actual sound as the change of using one is actually there but the preamp will take the burden of the current going back to the source so improved bass response will be noticed.
 
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I'm sure you could, but to me it would seem to defeat the primary purpose of using a passive which, AFAIK, is simplicity of the circuit.

I'd guess there is a passive (at least with respect to the audio side) around somewhere that uses a motorized pot with remote control circuit. Or, you build one yourself with something like this. http://www.partsconnexion.com/digital_abbres.html
 
I can't comment on the Creek, but I have an SFL-1 and I can't tell you how great it sounds to me. Clear with just a touch of warmth with the Bugle Boy 6DJ8. The thing with the SFL is that you can alter the sound with a quick change of 1 tube. And since you have 2 outs, you can control a powered sub and the power amp from the pre. No bass/treble/loudness/filters, etc. Not a true passive, but about as minimal pre as I would care for. I like more options than the Creek allows. A balance knob for one. The direct in is nice as well, especially with the CD. And since I have hearing loss in the lower midrange, the combination of the SFL and the Mac 2120 seem to be able to give a slight "bump" to those frequencies without being harsh to someone without the loss. At least according to the wife and friends.

About the only problem with the SFL would be finding one at something close to the Creek pricewise.

The Creek seems to be well thought of as well. I do think you have to look at your requirements and make the choice based on that. I think you would be pleased with either, as each has it's own strength and weakness. If you were closer......
 
richamor said:
I can't comment on the Creek, but I have an SFL-1 and I can't tell you how great it sounds to me. Clear with just a touch of warmth with the Bugle Boy 6DJ8. The thing with the SFL is that you can alter the sound with a quick change of 1 tube. And since you have 2 outs, you can control a powered sub and the power amp from the pre. No bass/treble/loudness/filters, etc. Not a true passive, but about as minimal pre as I would care for. I like more options than the Creek allows. A balance knob for one. The direct in is nice as well, especially with the CD. And since I have hearing loss in the lower midrange, the combination of the SFL and the Mac 2120 seem to be able to give a slight "bump" to those frequencies without being harsh to someone without the loss. At least according to the wife and friends.

About the only problem with the SFL would be finding one at something close to the Creek pricewise.

The Creek seems to be well thought of as well. I do think you have to look at your requirements and make the choice based on that. I think you would be pleased with either, as each has it's own strength and weakness. If you were closer......
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+1. I had the SFL-1 for a time. Great Pre. I love matching a tube pre to a SS amp. Currently running a VTL 2.5 w/ a McCormack 0.5
 
I am kind of leaning towards an active and seeing how it sounds....if I dont likek it i can try a passive as it will/should sound like what I have now....

I wont ever know what an active sounds like unless a try an active first.

If I do go passive i probably will go with a PassDI B1 and a remote control kit.

That whole impednace buffering/matching thing has me wondering what an active can do.
 
Whoareu99 thanks for all your help.....you helped me out a lot with my EPI 601's when I first came to this site. You're always there.

I also thought your avatar was a tire swing....hahahaha...Ii like you even more that i just noticed its a scope :D
 
Another Alternative

I have used both active and passive pre-amps. But in the end I went a different route. The passive did not have the dynamics contrasts I like, and I found actives to be not as transparent as a passive.

So I chose a transformer based pre amp from Electra Print. It uses a nickel core transformer that gives a bit of gain, and also provides impedance buffering.

Now the transformers are built for 50 to 150 ohm sources, ie solid state and op amp ones. I also have two inputs that bypass the transformers and are routed directly to the pot, which makes them usable for high impedance tube sources. Now these are basically like a passive pre amp, since there is no gain added by the transformers. But this is prferable to having an impedance mis-match.

I have successfully used this pre amp with many different types of amps. I suppose there are some out there that may not like it, but I have yet to find them.

The design is extremely simple, and the cost of transformers is pretty reasonable too.

Here is the link to the schematic and what parts are needed. This is primarily a DIY project, but EP could provide you with a built one I imagine.

For what its worth I find that this pre-amp gives up nothing toa passive or active pre-amp. Its the one I prefer, and I have owned Audible Illusions 3A, Jeff Rowland Consummate, Quicksilver Full Function, and Audio Innovations LS2. The passive I have tried is the one from Luminous Audio, which is not a bad one at all.

http://www.electra-print.com/pva.php

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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