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All about 78's....Tunes, Turntables, Technology

gadget73 has read of my plan of rebuilding a VV XIV Vicky cabinet, i think. All that is there is the cabinet. i could go original, or my plan now is something like a Dual 1019, going thru a multi-RIAA curve pre, a monoblock, then either a horn speaker that would fit the original space, with maybe a tweeter mounted in the area, or re-purpose a good 3 way into that same space. Original would be lovely, as i've heard some Hank Sr. on a wind up Vicky, with the old nail stylus, and i have to admit, i had never heard a recording of "Honky Tonk Blues" sound more alive, honestly. But....

As nice as original could be, this isn't a repair job, its a create-a-system job, with cabinet parameters defined, and for me, using more modern components will yield a wonderful sound, if all goes well. When i say more modern...i fully intend the pre and mono blocks to be valve rather than transistor. There are some other TTs i wish would fit the board for the TT, but the Dual 1019 is a sweet lil player, and i see many that have been pulled from a console, just ready to be mounted in my 4 ft tall plinth.

This is also more an all around mono system, rather than a 78 only system i mean to build. i collect 1st UK pressings of Beatle LPs from "Beatles For Sale" to The White Album...of course after that, i'm left with their odd approach to stereo on the final 2 LPs. In addition to my Beatles treasures, i have many Microgroove Monos...Leonard Bernstein Conducting "Rhapsody in Blue"....several performances by the Concertgebouw Amsterdam Philharmonic Orchestra, and on and on.

When we get to 78s, my most prized comes from my Amazing Granddad. i have a dozen or so Bob Wills and The Texas Playboys, Tommy and Jimmy Dorsey, Benny Goodman...then it gets serious with 4 wax frisbees of Django Reinhardt and the Hot Club du France. Django is the Ace when it comes to guitar in my book. With 5 fingers or 2, i remain dumbfounded by his ability, phrasing, improv, tone and outright speed. Many learn his style, but any imitator is quickly discerned, as there was only one who could bring forth such tone and beauty from a D-Hole Selmer, and/or Selmer Maccaferri. Its a fun debate, but until i hear someone wow me the way his music has since i was first introduced, i won't be shifted from my position of regard for the "French Gypsy Genius"

Gadget....every little piece of description i find about your Garrard makes it sound as if Angels lower the stylus on her....not having a go at you, but rather saying, i'd love to see her, i love all i hear about her, and its a shame to me that a sweet Garrard is too big to fit my Vicky cabinet. i guess i am pretty set on Dual, but i still wonder about Rek-o-Kut and AR. Neither of those my be a match, but i want to research and exhaust each possibility before just deciding the Dual is the only way. Its definitely a nice way, but i am just too curious to stop there, so more hunting....Maybe its time to go to my folks and locate the old console with the magic eye VUs on the RTR, and see what the TT in there is....oh well, i have large economy of time for this...only wish my patience matched my timeframe. :D

Cheers, and Best to all,

—dave
 
I have purchased many 78's all with good intentions to get a good mono table and system. Most likely I will use an old tube pre maybe a Fisher, Scott, or Mcintosh, that has a section of EQ curves. I already have some old tube amps, I just need to find a good table. Many of the 78's I have are classical but I have a number of blues, swing, jazz. and opera.
 
I either use a Magnavox stereo portable (with a Collaro TT and Sonotone 8T flip cartridge) or a Dual 1215-S (fitted with a GE-RPX cartridge, but recently a Pickering V15/AT with an aftermarket 78 stylus).

I have found some good stuff at local record shops and GW:
Frank Sinatra
Bo Diddley
LaVern Baker
Nat King Cole Trio
Dave Brubeck Trio
Earl Bostic
Ruth Brown
Fats Domino
H-Bomb Ferguson
Wynonie Harris
Camille Howard
Roy Milton
Bull Moose Jackson
Illinois Jacquet
Blind Willie Johnson
Memphis Minnie/Little Son Joe
Ella Mae Morse
Emitt Slay Trio
Sonny Thompson
amongst others

I like to collect the Specialty label.
 
Hi everyone! Nice to see the 78 love :tresbon:

I have a Lenco L75 and a Dual 1019 that I use for playing 78s. The Lenco has a Stanton 500 cartridge with an aftermarket stylus, and the Dual has a Shure M75MG cartridge with also an aftermarket stylus. Unfortunately, no dedicated preamp with 78 eq settings, yet!

If anyone's interested, check out my blog where I post recordings from blues and jazz records that are in my collection: http://bluesandjazz78s.wordpress.com/
 
I have a Technics sl-1650 and a Technics SL 5350 which I've modified so they will play at 78rpm. I put a switch under the platter which you can reach through one of the holes in the platter. When the switch is on it puts a resister in the circuit which makes the 45 speed run at 78. There is a thread here on how to do this. It's great having a Technics direct drive turntable to play 78s on. I use the stacker spindle too but I'm careful to only stack not more than 3 78s so the holes don't get enlarged.

If you are interested in having me modify one of your Technics direct drive turntables PM me for details.

As far as records I like the early to mid 50s vocals by Guy Mitchell, Patti Page and others. There is a fantastic record store here in Minneapolis that sells only 78s. He has many thousands of them on display in racks. I imagine it's like going to a record store in the 1940s. He also sells refurbish console record players with large speakers that sound great. The store is called Vintage Music company. Check out their web site for pictures and more information.
 
hamsterdam said:
Gadget....every little piece of description i find about your Garrard makes it sound as if Angels lower the stylus on her

Cheers, and Best to all,

—dave
Click to expand...

Hah! Its not nearly so impressive. Nothing special about the machine either, its a bog stock RC88/4 from the late 1950s. I picked it up years ago for a project before I understood that you can't really play stereo records with a mono cartridge. From the time I learned that until a few months ago it sat around and collected dust. Jameswei gave me a box of 78's that he had no want for, so I dusted it off, spent $15 on a pair of nails and put it to work. Its a little rumbly because the idler is original and has a slight dimple in it, but it chugs along OK.
 
gadget—its still a nice starting point to build upon, i'd think. i'm sure you probably have a regular player for everyday. i am definitely not in the league with the folks on here that have a dozen or so TTs, Decks Amps...everything i did was start from scratch, and the re-learning curve has been steep.

i definitely want to go as vintage as i can with the Vicky cabinet...i may even do a combo, putting a 2nd mono block in it, and have a switch to go from position one, driving the one cabinet mono speaker, or switch to position 2, to run both blocks to 2 outside speakers, if i want a bigger sound...i would think that is feasible somehow. How wise it is....well thats another story. :D

A big question i've had about the old carts of that era....i recall tons of carts that had a tab to flip the stylus for 78s, from the other side for 33 1/3 and 45 rpm, and i see pics of them here, now. Just how reliable is the VTF, the overhang and Azimuth on a mechanism like that? Would one need to re-tune in the tonearm for each needle flip? Just seems had for it to be very stable over the long haul.

i've also thought....would there be a possible...and fairly practical way to make, say a Denon 3000 flying saucer fit into a custom spring base to fit the Victrola? i could then isolate the tonearm elsewhere on the existing TT board...maybe just a wild idea, born from my almost lifelong love of Denon TTs, but it doesn't sound all that outlandish, either. Any thoughts?

There's much i love with the modern stuff. My Denon AVR-887 does so many things so well, but is exceptionally complicated to use. You will find no tone or balance control buttons or dials anywhere on its face. It requires you use a button to activate a specific gate-type system that allows you to record a tape.

There is much i've had to re-read the manual for...and i've not yet worked up the guts to place the setup mic in my "sweet spot" and hit the auto setup yet. Part of it is...it sounds nice now, and i fear losing that, then the time and learning to bring it back to my settings if it were a fiasco. Then again, it may yield remarkable results.

i wouldn't trade it, with the way it drives my current main configuration...it takes up to 10 speakers in the main zone, and another 4 in zone 2, should i wish to run outside speakers, i guess. i run 9 on the current setup, it would be 10, but i've not added a sub as yet...actually haven't felt a huge need for it, though once i hear one on it, i will likely wonder why i didn't do it earlier.

i tend, as a musician, and rare to occasional producer, to like the detail and the mid - high areas...not that i like over-bright stuff( no tin ear here :D ), but my Fisher 3 ways, with 10" radiators bring a very nice balance of bass, without pushing it ahead of the soundstage and detail of hi-hat vs ride cymbal, which to me, hides the music...but many love to overdrive the bass.

i like a sound, that i describe as "shimmer". Well grounded, but as close to it being live in your room, at least as lively sounding as i am able to achieve, personally. Obviously, big-time producers have the toys and more know-how to get that shimmer more simply than i, but many don't seek it these days, due to the love of putting the bass in front, imho.

Off my soapbox, yet again.

Cheers,

—dave
 
Sometimes I question my set-up, based on what I'm hearing. I just put on an exceptional Roy Rodgers, Home On The Range and realize that my system is fine. So many records are simply worn out. It's really a joy to come across one that sounds so nice. I also came across a pretty clean Elvis, Love Me Tender that I didn't know I had.
 
78's are indeed very hit and miss. I've got some that sound great, and others that you can tell were played with a dead nail. I did a quick first pass through the box of freebies and tossed a bunch that were terrible sounding or just broken.
 
And looks can be deceiving. The Roy Rogers looks awful but plays great. Some that look good can be unlistenable.
 
hamsterdam said:
Original would be lovely, as i've heard some Hank Sr. on a wind up Vicky, with the old nail stylus, and i have to admit, i had never heard a recording of "Honky Tonk Blues" sound more alive, honestly.
Click to expand...

I've got a couple of Victrolas, and after listening to some 78's with an old No. 2 reproducer, came to the same conclusion. Different formats--even 78's played on a Victrola, or perhaps I should say *especially* those--these formats have their own peculiar fidelity to what was being recorded. If you listen to a Victrola, there's an eerie connection to the people in the recording studio all those years ago. You have to hear one to understand why Nipper looks so curious.

It's impossible to get all the 78s you really want to hear, so I rigged mine up with a second reproducer to play CDs, etc. and it works passably well. You need a full-range miniature speaker that will handle more than a headphone speaker.

With that said, Victrola No. 2 was gutted on the side of the road when I found it, and I plan to use it as an elegant art nouveau cabinet to house my turntables, a preamp, and as much of the rest of my system as I can get in there. The preliminary plan is to put the amplifiers in the basement and access them through RCA and binding post faceplates in the walls.

I'd rely on a Dual 1019 w/Shure M91e and 78 needle for the 78s (It's what I have; $3 at Goodwill and $100+ in spare parts later . . . ) and put a Sony PS-FL77 where the horn used to be. I also have a Garrard Lab 80 that might get put into the mix somehow, perhaps with a MC cart. Planning stages . . . baby steps.
 
Excellent!


I have another portable Magnavox that is mono(VM changer / Sonotone 2T cart) that I'm thinking of getting rid of.

Right now I'm listening to AM radio on my Grundig console.
 
My current 78 front end includes a Scott 121-B mono preamp with variable turnover and rolloff controls and Dynaural noise reduction; a Technics SL-220 turntable that I modified to spin at 33 and 78; and a Stanton 500-series cartridge with the D5127 2.7-mil conical stylus. I also have a Dual 1214 with the cast aluminum platter off a scrapped 1218 and the same model of Stanton cartridge and stylus. The Technics sees more use than the Dual because it has a broader speed adjustment range. I don't use the Scott's Dynaural feature very often, though it does make some worn records a bit easier to listen to.

My 78s are a mix of discs that I inherited from my parents, bought various places, or received from people who just wanted those useless old things out of their basements. :D Most of them are classical, though a bunch of other genres are also represented in the collection. The oldest record is a one-sided 12" Victor recording from 1905 of Sousa's Band and the Victor Chorale performing Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus." One or two of my grandmother's Cal Stewart comedy records are almost as old as the Handel recording.
 
Is anyone using a Shure M44 for playing 78s? I just found one and wonder if it would be worthwhile to get a stylus for it. I'm currently using an M91ed.
 
DougMac said:
OK, I'll play. I've had 78s ever since I discovered my granddad's collection when I was a little boy. I've always had access to a 78 player, starting with my dad's Garrard. I then went to an Elac Miracord 40h. From there I went to a Dual 1228. Now I'm using a Technics SP-15 with various 78 carts from Grado, Shure, AT and Stanton.

I haunt thrifts, garage sales and antique stores. I visited a thrift two weeks ago and picked up "The Song of the Woodpecker" on the Blue label, Debbie Reynolds and Carlton Carpenter singing "Aba Daba Honeymoon" (my third copy of this record, I also have the original from the late teens), "Song of the Sewer" by Art Carney, "Tutti Frutti" by Pat Boone (!) and the prize from the group, "Sixty Minute Man" by the Dominoes on a gold Federal label.

I don't have a Black Patti, but I do have a Black Swan. It was in a group of my biggest 78 find so far. I was in a small town in Arkansas in a downtown antique store. I saw a stack of 78s on a table. The first five or so was the typical Bing Crosby, etc. I then started running into Paramount labels, Columbia Flags, and Okeh, including Okeh Electric. There were songs from Ida Cox, Mamie Smith (Crazy Blues), Louis Armstrong and the Hot Five, Bessie Smith, Blind Lemon Jefferson and others. They were all in great shape, E to EE.

I casually asked the old gentleman behind the counter how much he wanted for them. He said: "Them blue labels are $1.00, the rest are 75 cents. I walked out with over 50 pre-war blues and jazz records!
Click to expand...

Holy crap!!!!!
 
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