Altec Bolero 890c vs AR 3a

[saharadust]

Hi. I'd appreciate some advice regarding choosing one over the other.

I'm going to audition the Altecs this weekend.

I've read lots of great things about them here at AK and of course there's a great deal about the ARs all over also.

I think both offers are on a high side but as condition seems attractive I'm quite prepared to spend that much if they're convincing enough. That said, the ARs are approx. $400 more expensive than the Altecs and to audition the ARs I'd need to go to another town.

There's four more models I'm thinking of:

- Leak Sandwich (same price as the AR)
- Celestion Ditton 332 (cheaper than the Altecs by $500 but also need to travel)
- AR 2ax (same price as the Dittons but also need to travel), and
- Revox AX3-3b (these are on offer together with a Revox B-750 mk ii amp - bundled, they're cheaper than the Altecs by $150 - and I suspect if bought separately they'll be cheaper than the Dittons by as much as $200).

The speakers will be for a 35 sq m living room.

My next question would be on pairing any of these speakers with an amp but I'm thinking it makes sense to start a separate thread on that.

Help much appreciated.

Boris

 

[Tom Brennan]

IMO the Altec trounces the AR. It's more efficient, has lower distortion, better dynamics, much better clarity and a much more realistic midrange presentation. Altec carefully designed it to mimic the presence and midrange of their large systems based on theater speaker components.

But I think the AR 3a sounds dull and lifeless anyway, I never liked that speaker.

These are my opinions, not the word down from Sinai. Many people disagree with me and think the AR a fine speaker. Since no speaker is perfect one person's preference is as valid as another's. What it boils down to is you should listen and make up your own mind.

 

[saharadust]

It turns out I'm no longer sure whether I should go audition those Altecs.

There's been some back and forth with the owner and he said that he actually made a number of tweaks to them, most notable being that he had swapped the woofer in one of the speakers with the radiator..... That's in addition to recapping, replacing some cables inside and so on. He claims that the sound has got way better than it had been but I'm just not sure if it's a good idea for me to spend that much for speakers that have been subject to a great deal of
modification.

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

[62vauxhall]

Personally I would not consider speakers that a stranger has modified and would cross them off my candidate list.

 

[Nat]

If he simply swapped the active driver with the passive, all he has done is mirror them, which might be an improvement.
How much power do you have? ARs sound better with more. Also they sound better with recapping - I'm not an absolutist about recapping, more like a skeptic, but those old ARs do seem to pick up some get up and go when recapped.
Wait - if anything they arent paying you to take is cheaper than the Altecs by 500 bucks, forget the Altecs. Nice, but not at anywhere near that price. Oops - now I see that the Altecs are over 700 bucks. That's ridiculous.
Hard to guess other prices, but they all seem inflated.

 

[Tom Brennan]

There's been some back and forth with the owner and he said that he actually made a number of tweaks to them, most notable being that he had swapped the woofer in one of the speakers with the radiator.....

Any thoughts appreciated.

It sounds like he might have swapped the positions of the woofer and passive radiator in one speaker so the pair would be mirror imaged when used in the horizontal position. That, in itself, would not harm the sound and might benefit it. I usually used mine vertically.

 

[Jeff T]

AR3a are very nice sounding speakers. Verify AR3's midrange drivers and tweeters are 100% working. I've seen a few that work but the volume is attenuated, and they all required too much effort to keep them going. The crossovers will probably need new pots. But I think you should go audition them. You will need a power amplifier with 4 Ohm taps.

 

[GD70]

Unfortunately I have not heard the Altecs, but I have heard and restored both AR3/3as.
Most who think they are dull and lifeless, lack high end and detail, most likely did not hear them restored, sounding proper.
They are not efficient, so power is your friend. Powered properly, they can be outstanding.

As with any speaker, you’ll be the ultimate critic. If you can audition any of these, bring music you know well as a reference.
Also, they can sound different in your listening environment, than the sellers, amplification etc... all make a difference.

Have fun, the search is exciting, wear your mask!

Cheers, Glenn

 

[Tom Brennan]

I disliked the AR back when it was new and played with first rate equipment.

 

[saharadust]

If he simply swapped the active driver with the passive, all he has done is mirror them, which might be an improvement.

That's exactly what he claims to have done. I'm concerned though that they were meant to be identical, and I suspect for a reason. He claims to have made them a left and a right.

How much power do you have?

I've just acquired a Kenwood KA-6004 which I understand is 40 wpc. Thoughts?

Wait - if anything they arent paying you to take is cheaper than the Altecs by 500 bucks, forget the Altecs. Nice, but not at anywhere near that price. Oops - now I see that the Altecs are over 700 bucks. That's ridiculous.
Hard to guess other prices, but they all seem inflated.

I didn't want my original post to be all about dollars and sense so I just indicated which of them is more expensive than others. But yeah, the Altecs in question are on offer for approx. $1100. Again, it doesn't seem wise to spend that much for units that's been subject to what I think is significant, and not necessarily reliable, modification.

 

[saharadust]

It sounds like he might have swapped the positions of the woofer and passive radiator in one speaker so the pair would be mirror imaged when used in the horizontal position. That, in itself, would not harm the sound and might benefit it. I usually used mine vertically.

Yes, that's what he claims to have done - so that one of them is a left and the other is a right. I think they were meant to be used horizontally but no matter.

 

[saharadust]

AR3/3as ... They are not efficient, so power is your friend. Powered properly, they can be outstanding.

I've just got me a Kenwood KA-6004 - is that, in your view, a worthy choice for speakers like the ARs? I realise there's not plenty of power for 4 ohms.

As with any speaker, you’ll be the ultimate critic. If you can audition any of these, bring music you know we’ll as a reference. Also, they can sound different in your listening environment, than the sellers, amplification etc... all make a difference.
Have fun, the search is exciting, wear your mask!

Thank you Glenn, that's all very clear of course. I've auditioned the Kenwood at my place and only then took a decision to go for the purchase.

 

[Nat]

The change of active/passive location in the Altecs is a simple, reversible modification which might be very slightly beneficial if using them horizontally, because then the speakers would be mirrored. The change could be undone if using them vertically. But 1100 strikes me as being dramatically too much for a speaker that seemed pretty good, not outstanding, when I heard them. Obviously systems and tastes differ, but unless you have heard them and must have them, save your money.
That makes the ARs $1500, which also seems to me grossly inflated. I heard 3as at an AK fest that were excellent, unlike any other 3a I've encountered- I think, in fact, they were Glenn's. But 40 wpc isn't likely to wake them up, so they will likely sound heavy and dull, like so many I've heard. So choose a speaker more suited to your amp, and save over a thousand bucks.
I heard Baco's AR 2axs at another AK fest, and was stunned by them also - I've had mulitple pairs, and liked them all, but none sounded as seamless and natural as his. I don't know what either Glenn or Baco did other than the obvious recapping, but whatever they did took the speakers to another level - but the ones you are considering may not be that good.
I do not mean to hector you, but there are so many excellent speakers out there for small money, that it makes no sense to me to spend huge sums essentially to find out if a pair of speakers works for you long term. Wait until you know for sure before you plonk your money down. And don't feel embarassed to audition and not buy - anyone asking those prices is clearly willing to wait for the right person, who simply must have that specific pair of speakers or life will lose all meaning.

 

[saharadust]

I do not mean to hector you, but there are so many excellent speakers out there for small money, that it makes no sense to me to spend huge sums essentially to find out if a pair of speakers works for you long term. Wait until you know for sure before you plonk your money down. And don't feel embarassed to audition and not buy - anyone asking those prices is clearly willing to wait for the right person, who simply must have that specific pair of speakers or life will lose all meaning.

Thank you - these are valuable comments. I've started a thread to help me choose the speakers more suited for my amp here (https://audiokarma.org/forums/index...ons-for-kenwood-ka-6004.921731/#post-13950062). I'd appreciate a few suggestions to choose from.
PS: For what it's worth, I'm also considering auditioning a Revox B750 Mk ii amp - I suspect I may want to keep two amps now that I've (re)galvanised myself with being on a search mission again!

 

[Nat]

Have you looked at Barter town? A want to buy listing there with your general location might bring up a variety of local speakers that would be close enough to easily audition.
I know I have a shed full of audio stuff, and so do half the other members here, so unless you are in an audio desert, there have to be good affordable choices out there.

 

[saharadust]

...unless you are in an audio desert...

I'm in Moscow, Russia - that's def not an audio desert but rather a market which is very much inflated as you said. Also, I would've thought the Barter Town here will be rather US centric, won't it?

 

[Nat]

Ah - that changes things, and might have been a useful thing to mention in your initial post. But it also suggests an interesting thing you could do - Russia isn't particularly celebrated for its audio equipment (other than tubes), but it is a large and technically advanced country, and even during the Communist era, there was interesting equipment being produced, and presumably in the time since, the consumer market has expanded. It might be worth your while, and it would certainly interest me, if you looked at closer to home products. Certainly some of the Warsaw pact nations produced well regarded speakers, so I assume Russia did, and does, too.
I recognize that it is easy for me to suggest things for you to do..

 

[Nat]

To actually respond to your initial question: I'd check out the Revoxes. Speakers aren't their long suit, but they are probably quite good, and they seem to be on the cheap end of your list. The grills aren't exactly lovely, but you can certainly replace them with something more to your taste.

 

[GD70]

Believe it or not, being in Russia puts you closer to Europe and Japan. Some of Japan’s best hi end gear seldom seen in the states is readily available where you are. On fleabay as an example, some of JVCs best TTS are from sellers in Russia. Models we don’t see in the U.S. Are there any audio clubs in Moscow? If so, that would be a good place to start asking what’s available near you, and the possible opportunity to demo what you may buy.

 

[Patrick_W]

I agree with Glenn, you are much closer to some wonderful equipment that does not get stateside all that often. I would be searching out some German Braun speakers!