Altec Model 19's Aquired Now!!

[bowtie427ss]

Some folks just don't get it about the old Altec iron, unless they're off spec leave those inductors in there, they're part of the voicing.

Your initial number, 33952, is the Altec part number for the 802-8G driver

Exactly!:thmbsp:

AK member sparksaflyin was selling them. Here is what he sent me.

Those are NOT the same as the original foam, the tapered or angled part of the foam should be a flat plane from the edge of the horn all the way out to the inside edge of the cabinet between the grill fasteners.

IMO&E the sound of the 802-G and 902 when used in Model 19s is indistinguishable.

I'm glad you stipulated "when used in 19's", i'm quite confident i can tell the difference in other applications. The differences are at the extremes of the drivers' BW's, and they can be significant in certain applications.

Just my .02................................................

 

[dc270]

I am not sure what may have happened to mine but I see no orange phase plug in the driver horn throat. Maybe they underwent service at one rime and were converted to somethintg else- that has been known to happen more than once......
DC

 

[bowtie427ss]

They're in there, i'm all but positive, and i'll tell you why.

Altec only made two models of small format large body alnico driver with the tangerine, they're the 802-G and 808-B. It's the only small format large body that is tapered and in a rough cast finish. The taper is slight, with the larger end of the driver being the end the diaphragm is on and the smaller end mounting to the horn flange. You'll find all other 802/808 driver bodies to be uniform cylinders, they're machined that way and will have a smooth surface.

Chances are the bronze bug screen is distorting your view.

If you want to be sure, carefully use a non-magnetic screwdriver if you have one, and pop that phragm out of there. This will also give you an opportunity to identify the diaphragm to determine if it's a 23744 "light" or 34647 "standard", 23744 will be stamped on the inside of the coil former, 34647 is usually stamped on the aluminum plate that mounts against the driver face. These phragms are "pin alligned" so they are easily removed/replaced without having to do the old manual centering with a tone generator, "filed replaceable" they called it.

 

[bowtie427ss]

Oh, before i forget it a 3rd time, CONGRATULATIONS!

 

[dc270]

Hey Bowtie-

Thank you so much for the reassurance here. I am real hessitant to explore more into the driver- it is working quite well and I am elated with its sound so I am willing to leave well enough alone for curiousity sake here. Your information is well appreciated and I thank you for it. Thanks for the cudos as well!

I am so excited to finally get these I am beside myself, but want to get the cosmetics in order so when I do move them into the house the wife will not lose her second breath!!! Actually she is happy for me- but I do see that "OH MY GOD NOW WHAT" look in her face...that's how people communicate after a minimum of 20 of marriage.

.I do see the slight taper you speak of in the horn throat and the bug screen is in place as well. Super good information you had there there!
DC

 

[bowtie427ss]

I do see the slight taper you speak of in the horn throat

The taper i'm speaking of is actually the exterior of the entire body. Notice how it's diameter is larger at the shiny plat end where the phragm and rear cover mount than it is where the driver meets the horn?

It is slight, but nonetheless there. I clearly see the rough raw cast texture under the gray paint in your pic.

 

[bowtie427ss]

but I do see that "OH MY GOD NOW WHAT" look in her face

New grill cloth and freshly oiled walnut should make most of that go away, and wait til she discovers the surface area on those end tables.

 

[dc270]

Now there is a real +++....more table tops for the grand child pix!!! She appreciate good sound as well and had not heard them. That should move her "closer to center" as well. I tried to explain where I was a 10 year old and hear my first VOTs that this was my mission to aquire the model 19's someday....blah, blah, blah. She should be darn happy I am not wanting the VOT's!!! Like you said the refinish should go a long way...but If I see one plant or any container placed on them then there will be a blood letting....
DC

 

[Kenny]

Excellent find! Very fair price if all complete!!!

Excellent Score!....I acquired my Altec Model 19 components without crossovers about 5 years ago($500.00) & built exact Baltic birch replica's as I really like the Model 19's Retro look,plus its a great speaker top to set records on,lol.
I had a trusted friend build some duplicate original Atec Model 19 crossovers using Solen caps with crossover specs from Jeff's Markwarts Corner site(spelling) website figuring they would do just fine in the interim,(I justwanted to hear them!)then I would move on to a tricked up crossover.
Well its been well over 3 years now & I guess you could say I am happy with the research & development of the JBL/Altec Family & like them just the way they are thank you.
These speakers are so very revealing,they're live,dynamic & soulful & each time I upgrade they have rewarded me in spades.I use them mostly for excellent sounding dvd concerts,vinyl & occasional Family Movies.
They are absolutely stunning for all above purposes.I do not miss my previous foray into surround sound at all!
I'm old school two channel & these deliver.Give me 2 great speakers & keep all your dinky little boxes.These have it all bass mids & highs,nothing else is needed except a great source using well recorded material.That's it!
In my opinion these were a great design that totally defy the years & just improve each time you upgrade your source components.
I would just like to add they are fairly fussy about their room placement with regards to the rear wall.
I found after mucking about for quite some time one Winter that seven inches out from the rear wall & toed in only a 1/4 of an inch on the inside,try 1/8 first.
Do first try getting them out from their rear wall a few inches while playing something with heavy bass,Listening while moving them in & out slowly,when you hear the most bass,try them there for awhile for starters, a couple of weeks,playing with this can make a world of difference,at least it did in our room.Our rec room is also heavily carpeted with couches,wood wall paneling & old acoustic ceiling tile & bookcases along end wall.Believe it or not moving the bookcases to this location improved the sound as well.
I mounted 2 or was it 2.5 inch very hard rubber casters just behind the bottom kick plate so they are not visible & it actually improved the bass(similar to spikes I guess)as well as made it much easier to vacuum the rec room.Mine are in the basement sitting over carpet & underlay over concrete floor.
I predict you will enjoy these more & more as time goes on.Please also keep in mind if something doesn't sound right,its most likely what you just did upstream of the speakers.Its not usually the speakers.I found this out whilst experimenting with different solid state amps as well.
Recently undergoing 'final improvements before finishing cabs I found best results using solid core wire to the woofers & played with damping to get the bass to suit my taste.
These speakers will reveal "any" negative up steam components aggressively & oppositely bring out the very best of superior upstream components.Don't make changes all at once.Do one thing at a time & listen for a week or so to see if you like it.Take your time,theyr'es no rush.
I'm serious,these speakers will spook the **** out of you during certain movies if placed right.I have heard too many screams from my daughter during movies to doubt this anymore.I have heard sound right behind me without rear speakers.This is when you now you have the speakers placed properly too.
I use a 10-35 watt tube amps depending on the Season.
I also tried vintage Philipps solid state components,but tubes won out(Eico ST-70 totally rebuilt)I think I have slight preference to tubes as I grew up Listening to Tube guitar & P.A. systems.I also enjoy the sounds of different instruments tone & get this with tubes.Also Vocals & backup vocals,horns & Piano sound 'Live'.
Last weeks concert:.. Steve Vai Live at the Astoria...WOW!!!,not too shabby,daughter has a crush on him & Joe Satriani,last nights concert James Taylor,Pull over Tour,pretty good second set,next weeks show Carlos Santana presents Blues at Monteux 2004,with Clarence 'Gatemouth' Brown & Buddy Guy....man I can't wait!!! Unfortunately 'Gatemouth Brown' is no longer with us so makes this even more special!!!
Peace & Harmonies Altec Concert Kenny

 

[dc270]

WOW Kenny what a great review and good information!!! Depending on how well they will sound with the PA-7 I may experiment with a Yammie B-2, word is that VFETS are awesome with them as well!! I just got the matching Yammie C-2 and am looking forward to hearing that combination!!! For only a 100 watts that B-2 astounds me everytime.
For now tube amps are outside my budget, what a shame.
Thanks again Kenny-
DC

 

[tensleep]

WOW Kenny what a great review and good information!!! Depending on how well they will sound with the PA-7 I may experiment with a Yammie B-2, word is that VFETS are awesome with them as well!! I just got the matching Yammie C-2 and am looking forward to hearing that combination!!! For only a 100 watts that B-2 astounds me everytime.
For now tube amps are outside my budget, what a shame.
Thanks again Kenny-
DC

That's right! I forgot that you also picked up the B-2 recently. Oh man, what a match, especially with the C-2 in front!

 

[Rome]

Man o Man, DC!
You continue to find some impressive stuff there, my friend!

Hope to get by your neck of the woods soon & see those Altecs & DCM's.

Rome

 

[Punker X]

Let me add my congrats to the bunch.

I've recapped my crossovers with Auricaps and mills resisters. I run BMS drivers but still have the 802-8G's on standby. The BMS's give a little better top end and little better balance.

In the winter I use a NOSValves Stereo amp also helps heat the room. This summer I'm running Kenwood L-07M's and they are sounding pretty damn sweet. Until I recently completed the rebuild and debug of the L-07M's, I was running that Rat shack Accurian amp. Sounded pretty decent, but not in the same league as the Kenny's

Their life time speakers, so you have plenty of time to experiment, that's half the fun. They can sound great with flea or monster size power.

 

[dc270]

Thanks again for the congrats folks- one other thing kinda bemused me, that was the use of "weenie wire" they used from the xover to the components- that I will upgrade to a respectable OFC 12ga. Also will put on some decent binding posts. I am not wild about the bottom terminal mount but I can live with that for the while....
DC

 

[theophile]

You will love the B-2 with these speakers. :yes:

I used one (with a C2x,and numerous other preamps)on the treble leg of my 2 way active Valencia set-up.

My experience with the Valencias indicate that they keep sounding better,and better with every improvement made to the rest of the system(as speakers will).

Great analogue(think turntable and great cartridge,phono preamp)also have the effect of liberating Altecs.

Enjoy your 19s. :thmbsp:

 

[dc270]

Damn Theophile...that must have cost somebody to ship these big speakers over to Australia. You were fortunate indeed to have aquire yours too!! There is nothing quite like them, they have that "big" sound about them an "aural authority" if you will.
DC

 

[theophile]

Damn Theophile...that must have cost somebody to ship these big speakers over to Australia. You were fortunate indeed to have aquire yours too!! There is nothing quite like them, they have that "big" sound about them an "aural authority" if you will.
DC

The only 'score' of my life(on the audio front)was the Valencias.As you have indicated,they would have been expensive to ship. :tears:

I scored mine from the local Salvation Army store.At the time that I bought them,they cost me in Aussie dollars the equivalent to $190 US.
Based upon listening to the Vals,I decided to activate them,and I have slowly incrementally been refining the components I have been using with them.I am by no means finished fine-tuning this system,however I have(now) acquired the components which will do the job to the degree that I always aspired to.Most of the rest of the effort I will expend upon this system,will be of the nature of extracting the maximum from the current components(because they are extraordinary and they can achieve yet more).

I am aware that the Valencias are far from the best speakers I could be using.They have however opened my eyes to the possibilities and strengths of the compression driver/horn transducers.I suppose that the Valencias have converted me.I have the intention of putting together a multi-way speaker(active,of course) with the frequency spectrum from around 400Hz- 13Khz covered by compression drivers and horns.I will utilise the 416s(in my Valencia cabinets) to provide the portion between 400 Hz and 70Hz,and a pair of 411s(in 2 Altec cabinets) will handle what is below 70Hz.I have yet to decide how I would like to resolve the frequencies above 13KHz,there are many options on that front.

You will find that online there are many valid options that you can use to upgrade your 19s to sound better than they were stock,whether that be crossover upgrades or driver substitutions.The upgrades mean that you are no longer listening to model 19s(indeed as I indicated the modifications can be better than the stock 19s),however I would say to you to familiarise yourself with the sound of your 19s before you perform any modifications.There's no point modifying something if you haven't a clue what it was like before you performed the modification.

Never discount the degree of improvement that can be made,to the sound coming-out of the speaker,by improving the system that feeds-into them.

Good Luck.Enjoy your speaker.

 

[dgwojo]

Congrats on a fine purchase, I have the original grill velcro's if you need any, those look to be 802-8G's for sure, be super CAREFUL when messing with the phragms, nonmagnetic tools are a must, the magnets will suck the tools right into the phragm and ruin it for you. Dave.

Diaphragm Instructions

 

[similost]

... wait til she discovers the surface area on those end tables.

That's why Altec built them to play loud.. shake all that stuff off...

 

[dc270]

I have been out in the shop most of the day taking one of these monsters apart. So far I have the horn head removed and have one of the split corners clamp shut and the glue drying on it. Going to pull all the fiberglass out of them as well as they have that funky old smell to them. I do not like fiberglass am thiinking about foam at a later date. The toe boards are roast so I will replace them with a good solid wood piece and THEN put some casters on them first thing!!!

Sounds like you have a keen philosophy Theophile on your audio enhancement and direction. You are correct however I need to get a vaseline of what the factory wanted them to soundlike then see where I want to go from there. I have already read loads of information on the 19's tip and tweaks and do have some in minds for later!! Appreciate your fostering me here- this is my first really big speaker event- sound and size wise. I have most always been a simple cone guy but now understand I am in a new arena of sound with these, this is a good thing too. I have what I consider to be good quality amplification and assocuated medium to that. These speaker pretty well complete the circle of phase step 1. Phase step two will beanother big hill with turntables and tube amps. First I want to get this right then I can consider graduation. Many of you have been there before or are getting there now.

Dgwojo/ Dave- a super thanks to you as well for the great exploded driver view. I did closely inspect the horn driver and it is in fact a "Tangerine" 802-8G The actual color had faded from the brite orange/ or the screen was in the way, but I did see the split phase plug in the throat. Had to put it into direct sunlight to actually make it out. That and my diabetic vision is slowly fading out- but at least I know they are the real factory driver deal, now. I am making a personal re-build booklet on this project and that pic will go into it!

I have been hesitant about selling the custom built sub I made this Jan- now it has to go just to make enough room to place these 19's!i Besides that these speakers do have ample bass and a sub would be severe overkill......

Again- thanks for the wonderful cudos I am getting from everyone- is this a great audio community or what when so many people come out to give you encouragement, praise and valuable information- that really means more to me than the aqisition does. Just would not be the same sitting in audio solitude.
DC