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Altec votts

theebadone

theebadone

Super Member
Hello everybody, I posted a thread about votts for home use a little while back, lotsa responses. The majority said yes (get them), I have been waiting a couple months for delivery and they just came friday, So the work begins. 1 cabinet was in worse shape than i thought, but looking much better. Just trying to make the cabinets worthy of the components they will house, is a challenge, lol They will be loaded with 515B woofers, 802-8A compression drivers, 811-B horns and 500c crossovers. All newly refurbished also. Im hopin all this work is worth the effort. lol :banana: will post pics tomorrow.
 
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811-B horns and 500c crossovers.
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IMO, all the makings of a sonic train wreck there. The 511 and 811 horns do not load the driver well at all down near their lower cutoff frequency which is 500hz for the 511 and 800hz for the 811. For hifi apps 1khz or above for the 811 and 800hz or above for the 511 seem to work best for most of us. Someone's mileage always varies, but the consensus is to cross an octave higher than Altec recommended. You're looking to run the 811 a full octave below it's cutoff point with a 500hz network which is going to completely unload the driver down low which will greatly increase diaphragm excursion and reduce power handling to a level that will be unsafe to be driven by anything other than a flea powered SE tube amp.

Another factor will be trying to "marry" 8 and 16 ohm components to a XO designed for 16 ohm components, the crossover point will only be 500hz when the proper loads are connected.

Are you going to run some kind of woofer/s?

IMO, on their own, VOT's do much better in hifi apps with 416-8A or 416-8B, they'll have better LF extension and warmth in most cases. 515B will give the best midrange and the fastest most powerful dynamic attack at the cost of some LF extension. Regardless of the bass driver used, most of us end up with substantial woofers to augment our in home VOT's.

Just my .02...........................
 
I'm gonna back up what bowtie is saying here. The very first thing that stood out to me was using a 500c network with an 802 driver and 811 horn. I would cross that combination at no less than about 1200hz.. and like bowtie was saying, even doubleing that up to 1600hz would probably work out pretty well. Those 515 drivers would carry those freqs much better than the horn would.

I can't vouch for how low the 515 plays compared to the 416, but I do know that even with the 416 drivers, you will need some other kind of bass driver. Myself I use bass bins, but many others use true sub woofers. I like the bins, because it's more of a "live" or "club" sound. Hard hitting in the 40hz area, as opposed to dropping lower.. My cabs had been completely disassembled, braced, modified to hit the lows better by closing off the back of the horn and the port reduced by half it's original size. They still sound lacking on the bass at lower volumes, but once you start to push them, they will dig pretty hard to about 50hz.. they still need subs, which is why I am using a pair of 18" bass bins.

You might consider an active crossover that would allow you to experiment with different crossover points, and also allow you to adjust the gain for the horns since you really need to take time to balance the horn to he LF drivers.

Since I've moved my altecs to another room that is completely different, lower ceilings, carpet, and smaller, I have yet to get mine sounding right again. It takes a lot of work to get them tuned right for a room, and each driver balanced out... but don't be discouraged, because once you get it rights it's pure bliss..
 
If you need the plans for the standard and modded Altec 19 xovers let me know. They are set up for 8 ohm and have the higher xover point noted by Bowtie. You can make a totally new modded networks, complete with the 4 ,100 watt L-Pads and all new components for about $125 from Erse.

I have made and used both networks with great success. I too want to see your project get off to a good start.
DC
 
OH sorry, forgot to add everything has been modified to 8 ohms. and the crossover has been reworked by an altec tech. This is all new to me, but im learning. You guys actually use subs with your votts? I will get pics of all components later today. thanks for all the replies
 
Votts

Sorry guys i was just going by what i had written down originally, by previous owner. all components were right except crossover, which is an 801-8A, everything is 8 ohms, heres some pics. And absolutely DC, im keepin em classic votts. or tryin to lol
 
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FWIW the VOT speaker were the first speaker I remember seeing/ hearing as a 10 year old kid. My Grandmother was in charge of the Scout Hut where they had sock hop dances etc. She went over to unlock the place for the set up crew, so I stuck around while they set up. Once they got them place set up they went to test and WOW the sound!!! I was forever impressed with the sound and shear presence of those big grey VOT's and that old Fisher tube gear. That day forever got me hooked into audio. From then on I was around on every set at the Scout Hut and later hung out with various band members just to meet the road crews and see the speaker systems, then later hung out out the local Radio Shacks and high end audio stores. My friends were selected on how good of audio gear they had. I remeber the early days of Speakerlab and communicating with Pat Synder on various builds.

So here I am some 47 later- finally with a couple sets of Altecs remembering my days as a blown away 10 year old kid. Your VOT's take me back to a great time and a great sound. Hope the build goes well for you.
DC
 
Thank you dc, I had never even heard of votts or Altec before joining this forum. This audio addiction all started 2 years ago when looking for a decent surround system for the family room. Every time i typed in a speaker, to research it, it brought me here to ak. Once i joined and started reading and learning you guys turned me into an Altec junkie. When i purchased my first pair of seeburgs with the altec horns I knew i was hooked. Now less than a year later almost all my speakers are Altec. 4 pair counting the votts, and i learned fast, Altecs do not like cheap amps, hence the mac gear. mac gear and Altecs go together like peanut butter and jelly. I have never heard anything that even compares to this combination of gear, but then i dont get out much, lol Everyone who has listened to it, has tried to buy it. When i decline, i notice a few of them putting their own gear on ebay and cl, maybe i shouldnt share so much lol. I might be makin the altec stuff harder to find. But I would rather see someone here who appreciates it get than see it go over seas, where a whole lot of it goes. Thanks everybody, for the schoolin me. I will post some pics over in your thread dc if its ok.
 
theebadone said:
You guys actually use subs with your votts?
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Yeah, I used subs and A5s especially need some help with the low bass. That's one reason I came around in the end to the Model 19s; they have better balanced sound than a VOT and are much simpler and smaller than VOTs augmented with subs.

And when you use subs with VOTs you need large subs with low compression and high output; it takes a very formidable sub to "keep up" dynamically with a VOT bassbin.

I think 511 horns work fine crossed at 500hz even when crossed first order, I'd like to see some documentation to back the assertion that they don't. I measured them working fine at 500hz with 806 drivers crossed at 500hz, first order. Yeah, I know you not supposed to do that. ;) Don't try it with a JBL 1" driver though, they'll clack.

Mammoetguys071.jpg
 
similost said:
...even doubleing that up to 1600hz would probably work out pretty well. Those 515 drivers would carry those freqs much better than the horn would...
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Hmmm...515s are making 12-1600Hz well into breakup mode vs pistonic response from the HF drivers, and make for a gross mismatch of directivity at XO. :scratch2:

Tom Brennan said:
...I think 511 horns work fine crossed at 500hz...Yeah, I know you not supposed to do that. ;)...
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Absolutely. If 511s "unloaded" at 800Hz or 811s at 1200, the long-lived success of these systems would never have happened. The problem arises when folks remove the loading caps (they're called that for a reason) to try to extend the HF (which Zilch has proved won't happen) to 20kHz. I just never got it I guess, why make a huge ragged f'n hole in the middle of the fundamental BW to get ~1/4-1/2 octave more harmonics?

Yeah, they sound great stock. They sound much better with subs that can keep up. :thmbsp:
 
On your 515 woofers, what color is the suspension spider by the voice coil?? Beige or gray/black?? :scratch2:
 
I think 511 horns work fine crossed at 500hz even when crossed first order, I'd like to see some documentation to back the assertion that they don't. I measured them working fine at 500hz with 806 drivers crossed at 500hz, first order. Yeah, I know you not supposed to do that. Don't try it with a JBL 1" driver though, they'll clack.
Click to expand...

Absolutely. If 511s "unloaded" at 800Hz or 811s at 1200, the long-lived success of these systems would never have happened. The problem arises when folks remove the loading caps (they're called that for a reason) to try to extend the HF (which Zilch has proved won't happen) to 20kHz. I just never got it I guess, why make a huge ragged f'n hole in the middle of the fundamental BW to get ~1/4-1/2 octave more harmonics?
Click to expand...
So the OP should just go ahead and cross his 811/802 at 500hz?
 
theebadone said:
Sorry guys i was just going by what i had written down originally, by previous owner. all components were right except crossover, which is an 801-8A, everything is 8 ohms, heres some pics. And absolutely DC, im keepin em classic votts. or tryin to lol
Click to expand...

bowtie427ss said:
So the OP should just go ahead and cross his 811/802 at 500hz?
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My feelings are that 800 hz is still on the low side. I don't know how the 801 is built, though. I do know that the Model 19 network allows for CD compensation.

I am using an active crossover and have the crossover point at 1050 hz. This is with 416b's and 802g's on the 811. Whatever Mr. Bad decides on, he's got the start to a great system. I hope he continues to post the restoration pics of the cabs.
 
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