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AM Antennas

I have mentioned this before... I found this article:

http://members.cox.net/rwagoner/columns/am_antenna.html

and as I was about to gather parts for it I found both a kit version and assembled version on eBay.

These "Ultimate Loop Antennas" are made by Jeff Burns. He has them on eBay quite often. They sell for $22 plus $7 shipping for the kit, and $33 plus $20 shipping for the assembled version. This antenna is 17" wide x 21" tall.

There is also a smaller assembled version for $26 plus $12.50 shipping. These prices are US Dollars. 9" wide x 11" tall. These are assembled.

I ordered the kit version. It just arrived today. All the wood was cut to size, edge of the base attractively routed, all holes drilled, and the wood nicely sanded. Screws and other hardware have an attractive bright brass or gold colored finish. Also included is wire for the loop, a terminal strip for connecting wiring, and a piece of 300 ohm twinlead to connect to your tuner or receiver. There are some clear plastic feet to go on the bottom of the base. There is even an instructional DVD.

All you need for the kit version is to stain and varnish. I checked the fit of the parts, and they fit perfectly. Right now the stain is drying overnight (I used Minwax stain). In the morning I will use a spraycan type poly acrylic varnish to seal it. This stuff dries in 30 minutes between coats.

After the poly coating dries it won't take 15 minutes to assemble. I'll be listening to AM by the time I finish my second cup of coffee. If it works as well (and should work better) than my "Jug-tenna" I will be a VERY happy camper!

UPDATE - Completed the kit, have it hooked up to my main system. Wow! I am picking up even more stations during the day. Can't wait until tonight, see what happens.

Here is a picture of MY completed Ultimate AM Loop kit:
 

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I am curious as to what performance you require for your listening. I mean, a straight loop antenna like these can give excellent performance in normal use, but the tuned loop antennas might win the DX comp.

Yes they are a pain to use, and a pain to design, and likely to overload the front end on local stations. Does anyone know of a comparison between the two for normal listening at moderate distances?
 
My "Jug-tenna" satisfies me as far as the number of stations I am receiving well. And I am getting stations I hear on the car radio while traveling around the country late at night. Cool.

So, compared to my trash can special, this "Ultimate AM Loop Antenna" will probably be even better. I know that from appearance standpoint, it will be more acceptable in the living room.

As far as "a pain to design"... the "Jug-tenna" was NO design, no calculation, no nothing. And it works well.

As far as the "Ultimate AM Loop Antenna", somebody actually did some design and experimentation.. at least well enough that Carver recommended it for their tuner.

UPDATE:

Finished the "Ultimate AM Antenna" kit. By the way, this is not a "tuned" loop, no tuning capacitor, not tweaking for each station. You can just rotate the antenna for best reception.

Performance:

From here on the Gulf Coast (south of Baton Rouge) for daytime I am getting local and nearby (within 100 miles) AM stations that are so clean they sound like FM. The only noise I get is occasional lightning crackles from a passing storm.

The last few nights I have listened to:

KLVI-AM 560 Beaumont, TX 5,000 watts 190 miles

WSB-AM 750 Atlanta, GA 50,000 watts 550 miles

KBAP-AM 820 Ft. Worth, TX 50,000 watts 440 miles

WWL-AM 870 New Orleans, LA 50,000 watts 90 miles

WLS-AM 890 Chicago, IL 50,000 watts 980 miles

KMOX-AM 1120 St. Louis, MO 50,000 watts 730 miles

KXKW-AM 1130 Shreveport, LA 50,000 watts 270 miles

WOAI-AM 1200 San Antonio, TX 50,000 watts 470 miles

and many, many more local stations. Plus other stations I did not identify.

Is this good enough performance??? :D It is for me! :thmbsp:
 
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"Actually it is not static but rather noise interference. Maybe it is the florescent lamp?"

You have to have it connected to both the AM and Ground posts on the tuner.

On mine, the ground connection slipped off and I was getting noise from the air conditioner and thermostat. With the ground reconnected, no noise.
 
Embroidery........

Hoop, with some computer flatwire soldered end to end with a variable tuning cap....total cost about $15 and hour of your time. Works like a charm. Remember the hoop or antenna end must be pointed at the station, unlike a dipole.

The tuning cap allows you max tune the station. Will search for the plans tonight and post. Cheap and it does WORK.

Mike
 
Howdy,


Wow, this is sweet. I was sweating pulling in an AM station 35 miles away, now I think I might be able to pull in Jacksonville, which is a couple hundy away. I would think that the Ultimate loop design would do better outside, but I guess it would be easier and handy to have it inside - for ease on adjusting it.

Would a larger copy in the attic be better? Easy enough to string something along the rafters of A-frame...

Anyone in Tampa?

JG
 
You guys are helpful, so I'll ask these basic questions here. Hope you don't mind...

Is it recommnded / necessary to have separate antennas for AM & FM?

Would pulling in a station far away require upgrades to a tuner? Seem to be lots of DX mods available for this for selectivity and sensitivity. I'm not doing any upgrades soon... I guess I should just try this and see if it works for me.

I live in FLA. We have lots of lightning. What do you guys do about outdoor antennas? Do you add a ground to the antenna or run it through a surge protector?

I recently got a Sansui 717 tuner, and am anxious to try out an AM antenna. Anyone else here with a Sansui tried the Ultimate loop? I haven't gotten a manual yet... does this tuner have the ability to broadcast am stereo (in stereo) or is this a rarity?

Thanks

JG
 
Jesse Garron said:
Is it recommnded / necessary to have separate antennas for AM & FM?
Click to expand...
This is necessary.
Jesse Garron said:
Would pulling in a station far away require upgrades to a tuner?
Click to expand...
No, but some are better than others. The antenna is the larger issue. Selectivity may count for distance as you may find many weak stations on adjoining frequencies.
Jesse Garron said:
We have lots of lightning. What do you guys do about outdoor antennas?
Click to expand...
For an AM loop antenna (indoor) there is no issue. Your FM antenna might resemble your VHF TV antenna, the issues will be the same.
 
Jesse: You don't need to put the loop outdoors. It will easily suck in stations 35 miles away, or several hundred. You want it indoors so you can turn it. As you turn it you will find a sharp null at one point, then just turn the antenna 90*. Other than the null, which is quite narrow, the aiming is not critical.

I don't know that making the loop larger will do better. I exchanged some emails with the guy that sells the kits. He said he had made a few larger, but they were only marginally better than this one.

He also stated that when he was temporarily down in Florida he was picking up his home station in North Carolina. So, I imagine you will easily get stations within Florida.
 
Thanks for the tips. This is awesome! I've been listening to a streaming version of a Jax station, and it is not the best quality.

I kind of thought Am signals were weakish and were line of site only. I guess they aren't and they travel, burrow and skip.

So, I guess I should check this guy's antenna out...

Anyone have a tuner that works for am stereo? Just curious if it's a big difference b/w mono & stereo. Simmilar to the difference in FM?
 
AM stereo is the answer to a question nobody asked. There are still a few stations out there that fool w/it, but basically, it's dead as a dodo. If they'd had ONE decoding scheme, it might have had a chance, but all the different formats were confusing to the public. Kinda like quad, 4-channel, whatever you wanna call it. I had a 1988 Jeep Cherokee Wagoneer that the AM radio picked up AM stereo. Don't remember if AM stereo had any more ambient noise than FM did-it was so low-fi it was hard to tell.
 
"AM stereo is the answer to a question nobody asked."

Ain't THAT the truth!!! Besides, AM is mostly talk radio / news now.
 
More on AM antennas:

Yesterday I received a new and improved Godar Model 10 AM Antenna after returning the previous Godar 10 to the manufacturer.

http://users.mcleodusa.net/m/mgodar/MDL10.html

The original Godar Model 10 is described as a "Loop" antenna on the website, instruction sheet, and in conversation with Mike at Godar. It is not a loop design. I opened it up. It is at most, a base loaded bent whip. There is no "loop".

This new one has a different cable, with the connector removed from one end for connection directly to your receivers AM Ant and Ground posts. New instructions warn not to use a regular cable and transformer (as supplied with the previous version).

The instructions that came with this new Godar 10 describe it as a ferrite loop. While I have not yet opened it, a quick check with my multimeter shows there is no continuity back to ground... so it is NOT a loop.

The new Godar works exactly like the previous one... it doesn't. There is no difference in signal with or without the cable screwed into the Godar antenna. As with the previous Godar antenna, signal increased if I held the antenna, and increased even more if I touched the outside of the connector.

While touching the connector on the end of the cable there was no difference in signal whether plugged into the Godar 10 or not.

This antenna was tested on an Onkyo T-4500 tuner, Onkyo TX-850 receiver, and Onkyo TX-901 receiver, all with the same bad results.

HOWEVER, this tuner and receivers work very well with a true loop, the "Ultimate AM Loop" antenna... which is simply four turns of wire around a simple wood frame.

http://members.cox.net/rwagoner/columns/am_antenna.html

With the Ultimate I am picking up, at night, stations from 300 to 500 miles away. I am even picking up WLS in Chicago... 980 miles away from my location here on the Gulf Coast. I am getting KMOX in St. Louis, MO (730 miles), WSB in Atlanta (550 miles), WOAI in San Antonio (470 miles), WBAP in Ft. Worth (440 miles) and more.

The Ultimate Loop is the superior unit by far, and one I can recommend to everyone. Here is a kit version of the Carver Ultimate loop:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300168291849

The photo below is my actual kit built Ultimate. There is also available a finished version and a small finished version.

attachment.php


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Update: I returned the Godar antenna to the seller, who is giving me a full refund. He stated that these antennas work well for some, and don't work for others, he did not know why.

What I have done is sent Mike (Godar) schematics of my tuners so that he can see what might be different about my gear from others for which the Model 10 AM antenna do work.

All of this has been frustrating, especially since I have a Godar FM1-A in the attic that works quite well. Not as well as a previous outdoor antenna (a Channelmaster, don't remember the model) that was on a mast about 10' above the peak of my roof, but still gives acceptable performance for an indoor antenna.
 

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Paul sent me a kit for "The Ultimate AM Antenna." I assembled it yesterday and took it into work, where I have been having lots of trouble picking up AM. Occaisionally I listen to a weak station in Akron, 30 miles south. Normally it comes in very poorly with a standard loop antenna that came with my Luxman RX-102. Brought the new antenna in and hooked it up to the Luxman. Voila, the noise floor dropped at least 30dB. Before this weak station was almost drowned out by all kinds of RF interference. Now the noise is way down, signal level is way up. The antenna is directional as advertised. Haven't done any DX'ing yet, except for this one station. I don't normally listen to AM due to the crappy sound, but I do want to hear this one station.
Thanks, Paul! :thmbsp:
 
kc8mob: I was never much concerned with AM stereo. So few receivers we so equipped. In fact, I don't remember any AM stations stating they transmitted in stereo. Did you have any in your area? How did they sound? With the trend of AM to talk radio, the need for stereo AM fell by the wayside.

dr*audio: You're welcome! I needed someone else to confirm I wasn't nuts and the antenna actually did work, despite not being a "tuned loop" with a tuning cap and all that. It certainly follows the KISS principle. (Keep It Simple, Stupid!)

BTW, guys, I just updated my FM antenna, too.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73451

I am now a VERY happy camper!
 
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FM yagi antenna

Can this FM antenna(Antennacraft FM 6) be mounted inside an attic. Fairly strict around here about these kinds of things. No just the buckle-shoed killjoys in the neighborhood but also the WAF could present a problem. If not, what could be used as an attic mounted FM antenna? I also saw your ultimate loop AM antenna and would like to try that out. There is a great AM station here with "All Blues Friday" and I am dying to hear it without the buzz in the background. First things first, though.

Jeff
 
RadioShack does have a mount that hangs from a rafter for the FM6 or similar.

I though FCC rules overrode many local laws or HOA rules regarding antennas?

Jeff, the AM station you want is only 5000 watts day, 126 watts night. They also transmit on FM with 21,000 w day or night, so try that. I listen to it with my FM6 via FM.

Have you checked to see that your TV cable has FM or not? Many cable companies have FM, too. It may be a matter of just buying a splitter and some cables.
 
am antenna

Thanks for the info about the rafter mount, Paul. I have Cox cable and have no idea whether they have FM. I really have never heard of that. How does it work? Would this work better than the FM 6?

The AM station I want to listen to does broadcast on FM too, but the simulcast is only on Saturday. During the week, the broadcasts are different. I like the AM station's format better, especially on days like today.

Thanks
 
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