Amp advice

[Klunky]

Hello. I have a pair of ML-2 speakers. Besides the weight and size, I love how they sound. Current amp is an MC2200. Ugly, but sounds good. Here is my question. I'm thinking about getting a second MC2200 and having one per channel to double my power. Or I could sell/trade-in my current MC2200 and buy something else. That would leave me with about a $1750 budget for a new amp. Anything in that price range that would be a better choice than two MC2200 amps? Meters would be cool, but I care a lot more about the sound than the appearance...hence the MC2200. Don't know if these details are necessary, but the rest of the system is an MX-110, MQ-101 EQ, Marantz CD player, and Thorens 125 mkII.
Thank you.

 

[chuckworkb]

Maybe Ryan from Audioclassics can assist you. Also,search around the classifieds here and on Audiogon to see what's out there.

 

[hhibrownsbac]

Im new to owning McIntosh equipment but I am Bi-amping two MC2200 myself. Im sure they make better amps but since I added the second one its like a night and day difference from using just one. Id be afraid to try something else as these sound great to me.

 

[Klunky]

Im new to owning McIntosh equipment but I am Bi-amping two MC2200 myself. Im sure they make better amps but since I added the second one its like a night and day difference from using just one. Id be afraid to try something else as these sound great to me.

Cool. Thanks for the info. What kind of speakers are you using?

 

[AudioClassics1]

The design of the MC2200 is a great one and produces outstanding sound. I think you answered your own question in your system description. One MC2200 sounds great. Well, two will sound even greater! From what you have for a budget, you would only move up a generation of McIntosh amps, which will be a slight improvement but not night & day. You will get more "bang for your buck" by adding the second MC2200. Eventually, down the road, I would set your sights for an MC352 to replace both of those amps. The nice part with McIntosh gear is that you will have great trade in value with the amp you enjoy now plus another MC2200 (if you go in that direction) toward something in the future. With two MC2200's you will have 400 watts for each speaker.... which will get you close to audio nirvana!

 

[hhibrownsbac]

Cool. Thanks for the info. What kind of speakers are you using?

At first I was using my VOTTs with it but I was afraid of damaging the old girls so Im using a set of econowaves that basically are JBL 4507 cabs, JBL 2225H LF drivers and B&C DE250 HF drivers run thru a Behringer CX3400 active crossover. But im working on a new set presently that should (hopefully) sound a little better. In either case with the bi amp set up it just kicks some butt and as my wife says "it slaps you in the face" . I am really glad I went the two amp route rather than upgrade the one I had. Hopefully some day ill be able to step up and get one of their newer high power amps but until then I think Ill just leave things alone and enjoy it.

 

[Klunky]

This may be a dumb question, but since I've never used two amps in one system before, I'll ask it. Will a pair of amps like that be too much current draw for one standard wall outlet in my basement?

 

[Ray134]

This may be a dumb question, but since I've never used two amps in one system before, I'll ask it. Will a pair of amps like that be too much current draw for one standard wall outlet in my basement?

If you accidentally plug an 8 ohm speaker into a 120 vac wall outlet the noise you would hear (briefly) is 1800 watts of 60 Hz. Amplifier power output divided by amplifier efficiency is the power requirement of the amp and since real power output is limited by the dynamic range of the material, amplifiers don't deliver more than 5% of their rated power anywhere besides the test bench unless of course you love distortion.

 

[Klunky]

Thanks for clearing that up. I like the (briefly) part of that post. Bet it wouldn't last long.

So I pulled the trigger. Ordered another MC2200 from Audio Classics today. Can't wait.

 

[Pappas3278]

Hey Klunky,

I'll be eagerly awaiting your opinion about the addition of a second 2200. I too have been contemplating the addition of another 2205 in my system. Hope it works out for ya.

-Mike

 

[Klunky]

I've searched this forum and read a bunch of threads the last couple of days, but I'm still confused. I don't know the best way to wire my system when I get the second amp.

My ML2 speakers only have a single negative and single positive terminal on the back...so I think that means I can vertical bi-amp, but not horizontal bi-amp. Is that right? I'm still a little unclear on those terms. Do I flip the switch to mono, or leave it stereo?

Whatever the case, I'm still not sure how the RCA wires and speaker wires are going to go. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Frank from AC explained it over the phone and I tried to write down everything he said, but I'm still confused. I'm much more at ease building the cabinet to house all of the equipment than I am hooking it up. Thanks in advance.

 

[homebrew]

I may be missing something here but isn't there a switch on the back of your 2200 amp for stereo/mono operation? If there is, switch to mono and connect the appropriate pos and neg terminals (I believe it's from the right channel) to your terminals on one ML2-C. Repeat for the other channel.

 

[whoaru99]

I've searched this forum and read a bunch of threads the last couple of days, but I'm still confused. I don't know the best way to wire my system when I get the second amp.

My ML2 speakers only have a single negative and single positive terminal on the back...so I think that means I can vertical bi-amp, but not horizontal bi-amp. Is that right? I'm still a little unclear on those terms. Do I flip the switch to mono, or leave it stereo?

Whatever the case, I'm still not sure how the RCA wires and speaker wires are going to go. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Frank from AC explained it over the phone and I tried to write down everything he said, but I'm still confused. I'm much more at ease building the cabinet to house all of the equipment than I am hooking it up. Thanks in advance.

If there is only a single pair of terminals on the back of your speakers, there is no biamp for you without surgery.

You will have to put the amps in mono/bridged mode and connect one amp to each speaker. Take note of the (+) and (-) indications on the amp terminals for mono operation and connect them to the speakers accordingly. Then, one amp is connected to the left pre out and the other is connected to the right pre out. I'd have to assume the appropriate input jack of each amp is marked for which one to use in mono mode as well, or perhaps it doesn't matter.

Don't know the specifics of this gear, but generally they're all pretty much the same in this regard when there is a mono/bridged mode.

Basically, the amps become monoblocks, each feeding one speaker.

 

[Klunky]

OK, this is making a lot more sense now. Yes there is a mono/stereo switch and yes the right RCA input has (mono) next to it. The last part I'm unsure of is where to put the positive and negative speaker wires. There is absolutely no labeling about mono above any of the speaker connections. I would assume since the right RCA is mono, I should wire them to the right speaker output side; however, the example for monophonic connections in the manual is different.

It doesn't even show an example with just a single speaker. It shows two speakers with both of the negative wires going to the COM terminal on the left speaker side. The left positive speaker lead goes to 8 on the left side and the right positive speaker lead goes to 8 on the right, but there is a jumper connecting both of the positive leads. What does all of this mean?

By looking at that example, it seems like I have three logical choices.
1. Pos/neg on the left side
2. Pos/neg on the right side
3. Neg on left side, pos on the right side. That's kind of what's going on in the example from the manual, but as I said before, that's with two speakers.

I can't believe the manual isn't more clear about this kind of thing. Again, any help would be great. Thank you.

 

[kneeOhFight]

 

[homebrew]

My manual for a 2125 (and I would assume your connections would be the same) indicates that the stereo/mono switch be set to mono. (OK, we got that). Then connect a negative lead from the speaker to the "com" terminal of the LEFT channel. Connect the positive lead from the speaker to the appropriate positive terminal of each channel that has the correct impedance of the speaker. For example, if your nominal speaker impedance is 8 ohms, connect the positive from the speaker to each channel's 8 ohm tap on the amp. It'll be like a "Y" connector.

 

[pleeson]

Speaker wire assignment makes no difference as long as both speakers are wired the same way. The general convention is that the negative wire goes to the common terminal and the positive goes to the 2/4/8 ohm tap. In mono mode, you use only the right side taps.

 

[whoaru99]

I cannot add any more about the speaker connections.

If there is any further question or unclarity, I'd suggest getting the specific details directly from McIntosh tech support.

 

[Ray134]

OK, this is making a lot more sense now. Yes there is a mono/stereo switch and yes the right RCA input has (mono) next to it. The last part I'm unsure of is where to put the positive and negative speaker wires. There is absolutely no labeling about mono above any of the speaker connections. I would assume since the right RCA is mono, I should wire them to the right speaker output side; however, the example for monophonic connections in the manual is different.

It doesn't even show an example with just a single speaker. It shows two speakers with both of the negative wires going to the COM terminal on the left speaker side. The left positive speaker lead goes to 8 on the left side and the right positive speaker lead goes to 8 on the right, but there is a jumper connecting both of the positive leads. What does all of this mean?

By looking at that example, it seems like I have three logical choices.
1. Pos/neg on the left side
2. Pos/neg on the right side
3. Neg on left side, pos on the right side. That's kind of what's going on in the example from the manual, but as I said before, that's with two speakers.

I can't believe the manual isn't more clear about this kind of thing. Again, any help would be great. Thank you.

When an amplifier is running normally (stereo) the red(+) is the amplifier output on each channel. The black (-) is chassis ground. When you switch to mono or bridged all that happens is the one input is fed to both channels with one input being inverted (180 deg). Now one channel red is the positive terminal and the other channel (the inverted) red is the negative. Now you have twice the output voltage which should give 6db more power but since you have also doubled the output impedence of the amp you usually end up with about 4db more power. Keep in mind that each channel is now carrying more current also. Most amps will have some indication on one of the reds that it is neg (-) when in bridge mode.
Anyway because all the bridge switch does is invert the input and feed it to the other channel , the red on the other channel becomes your negative connection.