Amp hookup options

[Kencat]

Andrew,

good article here. First time I've seen a pros and cons list to the bi-amping scenario.

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/general/messages/57210.html

Hmmm, I've got an old HK AV receiver that I think can take a pre-in signal. 65 HK WPC (like the NAD, supposed to have lots of high current headroom). All the buzz on this forum about bi-amping has me thinking :scratch2:

 

[defilamintkid]

Here is another possibilty bi-wire....as I don't have 2nd amp I tried this
method with my system which really opened up the soundstage...

reversing back to one wire and jumper straps collapses soundstage...

Here is an article that gave me some light on subject might be interesting
for you to try ...if you do please feed back your findings..

http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

thanks
best wishes

 

[Kencat]

Here is another possibilty bi-wire....as I don't have 2nd amp I tried this
method with my system which really opened up the soundstage...

reversing back to one wire and jumper straps collapses soundstage...

Here is an article that gave me some light on subject might be interesting
for you to try ...if you do please feed back your findings..

http://www.soundstage.com/synergize/synergize031998.htm

thanks
best wishes

Very good article :thmbsp:

Worth a bookmark for sure.

Got a bunch of a wire around.......think I'll try that bi-wire this weekend. The Q2's are terminated for just a thing.....as the article stated, Infinity must have wanted it to be done

 

[Listnnthdark]

Hail All..
Thanks for your input filamentkid ... VERY INTERESTING...
Everything ive heard about bi wiring has led me to believe that its bs or some kind of snake oil .. Which is why ive never even bothered to try it ..
My kappa series 2 owners manual states IE biwire .." Some audiofiles CLAIM " etc etc .. and now we have.. your testamonial.. Open soundstage with / "collapsed " soundstage without .. Thats pretty clear cut .I will definatly try it .. What speakers are you using that were so affected bi wire ??? Thanks for that link havent finished reading but very informative..
Thanks also KENCAT .. HMMMMM... 200w adcom /65w hk will you have even more ballancing issues w that than I do ?? When do you plan to try it well have alot of notes to compare on that ..Very interesting link you provided too .Looking foreward to hearing results of adcom hk experiment { if you do it } havent recieved adcom yet .After hearing filamentkids testamonial.. .Im seriosly considering taking my speaker wires, chopping them in half { theyre about twice as long as I need }And trying the bi wire right now!! Regards ANDREW

 

[defilamintkid]

listen..
Would believe...I just spent a chunk of time setting up a reply for you
and when I hit submit system forced me to resign in and in the process
lost the text of what I had for you...So I will recompose and resubmit
with more detail... But in a nutshell Infinity Beta 50s....
Carl IV said this may happen due to system upgrades...
My system :
Mcintosh Mx110 tubed tuner preamp
Denon Poa 2200 ss 200/ch
Ah! 4000 njoe tjoeb cd (tube)
Infinity Beta 50
BlueJeans cable ic, speaker wires

Listening room is 26'x15' speakers 16.75" from wall toed in .75"
and 8' apart measure from mid centerline of cabinet..

Going from bi-wire to single wire it just seemed as if all the qualities
of subtle detail floating acoustical images harmonies the lick of an electric
guitar sting snares bass the whole of these sought after qualities..
collapsed...lost... going back to bi-wire brought these back...

Hopefully your results will equal or better my own !!

Best wishes

 

[defilamintkid]

Listen btw..
The infinity Beta 50 manual recommended bi-wire..stating that "bi-wiring
can provide several sonic advantages"...but did not say which ones..
I bi-wired my betas from the git-go and have had them for a year now..
So when just for fun of it decided last week to return to single-wire ..I was
very much aware of what my system sounded like with bi-wire and single-
wire...the difference is not subtle...and went back to bi-wire and am not
looking back..

Hope this helps a little more
Again I wish you equal or better results...

Chime in again and please keep us posted on your findings

My dream speaker would be Kappa 9's with the polydome..probably rare hard to find !!

 

[Kencat]

Another excellent read on the topic. Can't have enough different opinions on the matter to eventually get to the common facts.

http://www.rdrop.com/~/twest/audio/index.html

 

[Listnnthdark]

Hello again all..
I have now read the two articles .. General asylum .. and bi amp bi wire by golly...very interesting ..thanks KENCAT and DEFILAMENTKID.. Havent had achance to read most recent " In admiration of music "
They dont necesarily agree w each other ..
I have a question .. { AGAIN WITH THE QUESTIONS ?? } yes
IN the article " by golly".. It talks about the horizontal bi amp method described by David .. using y adapters .. It is VERY ADAMENT about not using cheapo ys from radioshack ..Heres my Question : I dont know what to look for in a y adapter .. The article tells what NOT to get but doesnt specefy good choices ..It recomends going to your local audio shop .. I live in a small town w NO audio shops only " BEST BUY' DOES anyone know specficaly what kind of y adapters I should get ??? Where can I get them ??!!?? Before I read that article in planning my day .. #1 " Go to radio shack and pickup y adapters . #2 Go fishing..
Wouldnt it have been awfull if I hadnt read that article and had just picked up the 1.99 radioshack ones , hooked up new amp w bi wire bi amp { the whole shabang }..Only to hear NO sonic benefit All because of a lousy 1.99 connector ?!?!!!
Now onto next subject .. Sorry to be so long winded but I HAVE TO ASK..
** I SINCERELY DO NOT WANT TO CAUSE A RIOT ON THIS FORUM..**
*********** CABLES **********
There I SAID IT..The reason I have the temerity to ask this ? is that The " IN admiration article headings .." Why interconnects dont matter much" and " Why speaker cables matter"has me thinking.. uh oh.. I use 16 guage Monster from radio shack .. It looks like other 16 guage cable I have purchased by the yard from audio stores ..
DEFILAMENT KID mentioned Blue jean ..
Am I selling myself way short by using this ?? If you care not to comment I will certainly understand..I know that emotions run high on this subject . and it is a LARGE CAN of worms ..
If anyone knows anyone who knows the "WHAT " and "WHERE" on the Y ADAPTER ? I would be mucho obligato !! THANKS CHEERS

 

[Kencat]

Andrew,

Read that article carefully before jumping to conclusions on the speaker cables based on the titles. Law of diminishing returns.

My take on the article was to keep the resistance of the speaker cable as low as possible....fat and short runs does that. Standard 12 Ga zip chord faired pretty well. I think the author tryed to explain that the high priced cables did have some advantage but it must be tempered with the price vs performance ratio.

Think I'll stick with the Home Depot bulk speaker wire and go for big n fat n short for now, unless I get convinced otherwise there is a huge benefit to megabuck cables :scratch2:

YMMV.

 

[defilamintkid]

Listn

Checkout
http://www.bluejeanscable.com

They have good cable basics articles as well. also very inexpensive

best wishes on your projects

 

[Kencat]

Biwiring Complete

Whew,
Been at it all evening....cutting, stripping, crimping and soldering. But it's done

The Q2's are now biwired.

I'm impressed. Still need more listening to understand the differences (if any :scratch2: ), but my first impression was that the noise floor was way lower. The music seems more pure, with a nice black background. It is more laid back, easy to listen to. Individual instruments are placeable in the soundstage and are distinct and clear. Piano and horns are very clear and easy to follow each note. Yes, the soundstage seems to be wider, and as noted, the imaging of individual instruments is more precise within the soundstage.

There used to be a honkiness (lower midrange) in the Q2's that I was beginning to think was due to crossover caps being old and worn out. This is now gone. It was prevalent with the organ in Procol Harum (Whiter Shade of Pale) but is quite nice now as I am listening to it as I type.

Haven't gained any bass impact, more to be had with the mids and highs. The bass though is more right perhaps, just there in a nice balance with the upper end. It is crisp and tight though.

:yes: I like this. With all the work involved though, I sure don't want to undo it all to do a comparison the other way, at least not for a while. Yeah, the emits do sound more airy like they are supposed to (a new track just on - Good Captain Clack - highs sounded nice )

More later, gotta try Roger Waters - Amused to Death. This'll really show if the noise floor is better, picking out the story of Bill Hubbard

 

[Listnnthdark]

GREAT REVIEW KENCAT
I really enjoyed reading your comments.. very detailed and specific ..
I didnt think there was any soldering neccasary to bi wire ..Please describe exactly what you did ...Did you use A and B channels? iwhat did you need to solder? is that because you use 12 g .. { I will probably head to hd for some 12g..I was going to do bi wire yesterday Hurt my back and can barely move ..Cant even sit in a chair andlisten to music THIS SUCKS..
Do you think you might try adding the hk to bi amp at some point?
Hoping someone perhaps DAVID can chime in on the y adapter ? Im going to try every option but have a feeling that my best option will be using adcom amp alone bypassing nad amp.. YES I am quite a conclusion jumper...
If there were a olympic medal for conclusionjumping im sure Id have the gold !!!
Regards to all

 

[defilamintkid]

Listn...

Just read about your back ....man that's a bummer been there done that
got t'shirt n' all...please have your doc check this out may need some
tylenol w/ codeine to knock the pain out...don't mess around with stuff
untill you get this checked...

Kencat thanks for taking on the bi-wire and giving it a try...Your
experience pretty much echoes mine...I did not find bass slam as
improved but acoustical bass and electric bass have greater definition
as well as drums
Just listen more... try different recordings ...styles of music...

It seems as if your immediate findings are proving out...what an
inexpensive way to increase speaker performance without the added
expense of having to purchase an additional amplifier ...

Though an additional amp for bi-amping would be the ultimate

Please continue feeding back your findings

Best wishes all

 

[Kencat]

GREAT REVIEW KENCAT
I really enjoyed reading your comments.. very detailed and specific ..
I didnt think there was any soldering neccasary to bi wire ..Please describe exactly what you did

I soldered (or tinned) the stripped wire at the speaker end, for clamping into the dual banana plug that I use for the connection to the speaker binding posts. As I recall, this was the recommendation in the Adcom manual to tin the bare wire leads at the Amp end (if using the wire in the shaft hole) and the speaker end. (BTW, the manuals for the Adcom gear are all available on their website.)

For connecting at the Amp though, I bought some automotive 8 gage spade connectors (gold plated) and crimped onto the 12 gage wire I had after doubling back the wire to fill the 8 gage hole. The spade connector size was a perfect fit though for the Adcom binding posts, and the two spades fit nicely together, one from the top and one from the bottom, and the lug screwed down well onto the two connectors.

...Did you use A and B channels?

Nope, the Adcom only has the one set of posts per channel. See above for connecting the two wires on each binding post.

iwhat did you need to solder?

Standard electric 25 watt soldering iron and "44" Rosin solder. Some folks would use silver solder I suppose, but I can't find it around here.

is that because you use 12 g ..

No. Would tin any gage wire used. Nothing special there.

{ I will probably head to hd for some 12g..I was going to do bi wire yesterday Hurt my back and can barely move ..Cant even sit in a chair andlisten to music THIS SUCKS..

I'll bet :thumbsdn: Get well soon there bud :yes:

Do you think you might try adding the hk to bi amp at some point?

Ahhh....Uhmmmm..dunno about that one. Kind of having second thoughts about the stoutness of only 65 WPC. The driver split on the upper end of the Q2 is a mid-bass, two dome mids, and 3 Emit tweeters. That mid-bass is crossed over at 200 Hz, which is still darn low, and can draw some significant power I think. I'm thinking I don't want to try this (those drivers are too rare and costly to blow up :sigh unless I've got another significant Amp (like another GFA 555 II ) in which case there would be a few options. Another 400$ 555 is not in the cards for a while though.

Hoping someone perhaps DAVID can chime in on the y adapter ? Im going to try every option but have a feeling that my best option will be using adcom amp alone bypassing nad amp.. YES I am quite a conclusion jumper...
If there were a olympic medal for conclusionjumping im sure Id have the gold !!!
Regards to all

:lmao:

 

[Listnnthdark]

Adcom gfa 545 "INDAHIZZOUSE " How do I use the charracters ?? Would love to have that banana guy jumping around like an idiot right now !!
Back still out .. Cant hookup yet .. Hope it works! { May the ebay gods be with me !!Sure LOOKS pretty though !
Must return to prone possition .. more later ..ENJOY MUSIC !!

 

[Kencat]

To use the "characters" or "smilies" as they are referred to, just click on the one you want after placing the cursor at the place in the text where you want the smilie guy.

You should see all the smilies to the right of the text box as you compose a post. And if you want more choices, click on the underlined and bracketed "More".

So now after you get that GFA hooked up, hopefully we see a few bananas in the next post