• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Amplifier Distortion, DC-Offset, and You!

Wow! That input stage has more feedback than a Billy Graham rally...

Q1 and Q2 are the ones to replace. Also, R51 should be tied to ground through an electrolytic cap of some sort...if the cap is old and leaky, then it can also cause excessive offset and should be replaced. Then again..because the differential pair is included inside the feedback loop the coupling cap might be unnecessary.

The opamp at the input looks like a standard 8-pin DIP package. Too much offset from the opamp could possibly be so bad that the differential pair (Q1, Q2) can't compensate. Plus, it's likely old and of questionable sonic character. I suspect that excessive offset from the opamp (due to large bias currents) as well as mismatched transistors are causing the offsets you see. On this amp, I'd replace the opamps first, with something like an OPA604 or an OPA134 (FET input opamps with very very low bias currents) might reduce or even eliminate the problem, and is what I'd do first. At the very least they'd improve the sound. I question the necessity of C5 (I think it's C5) from the opamp output to the inverting input. If I changed the opamp I'd want to check for stability with a scope and square wave. The cap should go if at all possible, but stability needs to be looked at both with the cap and without it.

If the opamp swap didn't get the offset low enough, then Q1 and Q2 should be replaced with matched pairs of high gain transistors. If you can't match transistors, then simply use transistors with such high gain that base currents are as low as possible (no, you can't use Darlington's). I use Zetex ZTX795A's for input stages like this...
 
  • Like
Reactions: trs
DC Offset and Bias Adj.

Hey EW!
It's the Pioneerguy here ( Vince ) and have some questions to ask ya....
when adjusting the DC offset using the pots, do you do this while the unit is on?
or off after warming up the unit to take it's readings.
Second question is - do I adjust the bias setting the same manner as the dc offset?
Pioneerguy :)
 
Gear should be well warmed up...power on of course.

Offset is a voltage measurement, measured between the two speaker terminals, and the desired reading is always the same...0V. Bias measurement is a current measurement, done by measuring the voltage between the emitters of the output devices and calculating the current that is flowing, and the desired value varies widely depending upon what the manufacturer recommends (and the point of measurement also varies...some amps have test terminals to make it easy, some require that you dig in there and locate a specific component(s) and take a measurement from there).
 
Echo tested the first of my 8080/9090DBs today.

43.5 Left channel
24.3 Right Channel

After adjustment

4.1 Left channel
2.3 right channel

Would have been nice if they had installed 10 turn pots!!!
 
EchoWars, I have a question to ask you. I have a Sansui 771. I was running it one day (not having checked the DC offset) and the protection relay clicked off. That was all she wrote. Now there is no way to check DC offset (relay won't engage). What am i going to do now? Bake a cake or what? Let me know, thanks.

Good day,
3of12
 
Sorry about barging in on this thread. I just hooked a cd player up to it, and plugged headphones in. you can hear (very faint) audio through the headphone jack, even though the protection relay doesn't kick in. Is that a good sign? Thanks alot, 3of12
 
Threeoftwelve:

Usually the service procedure is to center the pots or turn them fully 'X' before starting the adjustments. You have to check the service manual as each one can have different starting points.

Usually when that is done, there will be insufficient current to trip the protection relay even though the settings are not optimum.

For example, the G-8000/9000 service manual states 'Set VR01 and VR02 to center position'. The 7070 service manual doesn't specify any pre-adjustments!! Go figure.

Anyway, you could always center them and see if it will fire up (oops, sorry - bad pun) and go 'green' so you can them make the final adjustments. If centering doesn't work, try fully CCW or CW.

Paul
 
Originally posted by Morden2004
Threeoftwelve:

Usually the service procedure is to center the pots or turn them fully 'X' before starting the adjustments. You have to check the service manual as each one can have different starting points.

Usually when that is done, there will be insufficient current to trip the protection relay even though the settings are not optimum.

For example, the G-8000/9000 service manual states 'Set VR01 and VR02 to center position'. The 7070 service manual doesn't specify any pre-adjustments!! Go figure.

Anyway, you could always center them and see if it will fire up (oops, sorry - bad pun) and go 'green' so you can them make the final adjustments. If centering doesn't work, try fully CCW or CW.

Paul

If none of that works measure the DC voltage at the emitter resistors of the output transistors. If the voltage is significant 40-60 volts, then you probably have a problem with the driver circuit. I don't knwo if the 771 uses the same one as the 7070/8080DB/9090DB but these have this problem all the time and usally a replacement of 2-4 resistors on the driver board will fix the problem.
 
Originally posted by threeoftwelve
EchoWars, I have a question to ask you. I have a Sansui 771. I was running it one day (not having checked the DC offset) and the protection relay clicked off. That was all she wrote. Now there is no way to check DC offset (relay won't engage). What am i going to do now? Bake a cake or what? Let me know, thanks.

Good day,
3of12
Well, you can't really use the transistor emitters, because the emitter is not at the same potential as the output line. However, the emitter runs to a big emitter power resistor, and the side of the resistor that is away from the transistor is the output line...if you could find that point.

Is it worth the cost of a service manual ($20 or so) to check it out? The manual should (will, actually) show you where to connect the meter whist adjusting the offset pots. Sure..if the amp was right in front of me, I could point at a spot and say, "Put yur meter there...". Unfortunately....
 
SX-980

Hi EW
Just checked my SX-980

Left 23.6 mv Right 19.4 mv


By the way is it me or is most of the units tested have a left ch higher then the right.


Love this forum !
 
OK Echowars, You sold me. Most of the stuff you said is over my head. But I think I can follow your instructions and perform the test you mentioned. So............I am going to buy a multimeter and join a new world. Can you recommend which type I should purchase?

See CBS New Logo?
 
Back
Top Bottom