Amps for ESL-63s. ?

[JohnVF]

Hi. I have a pair of Quad ESL-63s coming to me. They're the pro monitor version, with apparently better power handling and better protection circuit than regular 63s.

I was wondering which of my amps would be a best bet? I want to run my Levinson 432 on them but at 400wpc will it trigger their protection on loud transients? I don't listen too loudly.

I also have a Grodinsky Model 5, which is 100wpc and 'high current' (says so right on the front...). It doesn't sound quite as good as the Levinson.

I also have a Fisher SA-300b tube amp, and a refurbed Dynaco ST-70.

I could get my hands on a Quad 606 but would prefer to use my Levinson. I guess I could just try them and see if it shuts them down. It should be able to handle the 2ohm protection crow-bar that is mentioned with these.

 

[c_dk]

If I remember right they throw a crowbar circuit across the input if the power gets too great. Enjoy the levinson just don't go above 125 watts or about 105dB.

 

[JohnVF]

If I remember right they throw a crowbar circuit across the input if the power gets too great. Enjoy the levinson just don't go above 125 watts or about 105dB.

I don't listen that loudly, so hopefully all will be well. The Levinson 'should' be able to handle the protection crowbar were it to happen, as its not a dead-short from what I've read and the amp is supposedly able to handle most loads put upon it. But I really don't want to find out that I'm wrong.

 

[cdfac]

are the 63's normally a tough load?

 

[c_dk]

You are driving the transformer that applies the concentric rings of electrostatic force that moves the sheet. The load is not terribly difficult but the protection to keep the sheet from arcing is drastic.

 

[hatrack71]

John, I have not much experience with the 63s but lots with the 57s. If the power supplies are anything alike as well as their amplifier preferences, you will like McIntosh tube gear and Quad II amplifiers. I am using a McIntosh 240 to run one pair of my stacked Quad ESL-57s. I am brokering a deal for some Mc40s to run the other pair. The Quad IIs don't have as much bottom end but are so natural in the midrange. I think the Macs are more stable with these speakers though. The main thing is to not arc the speakers- you will be very sad:tears: There is my .02

 

[JohnVF]

John, I have not much experience with the 63s but lots with the 57s. If the power supplies are anything alike as well as their amplifier preferences, you will like McIntosh tube gear and Quad II amplifiers. I am using a McIntosh 240 to run one pair of my stacked Quad ESL-57s. I am brokering a deal for some Mc40s to run the other pair. The Quad IIs don't have as much bottom end but are so natural in the midrange. I think the Macs are more stable with these speakers though. The main thing is to not arc the speakers- you will be very sad:tears: There is my .02

From what I've read these particular 63s are less fragile than the 57s, and even less fragile than the non-PRO version of the 63, with a 'more sophisticated protection circuit', whatever that means. I've read that in the regular ESL-63...Prior to arcing, they will shut down, placing a 2ohm (or possibly lower?) load across the speaker terminals. It's this 'crowbar' that I'm scared of, but my amp 'should' be able to handle it. And I really don't listen that loudly so it might be something I never even have to deal with.

 

[JoeESP9]

The link below may be helpful.

http://forum.stereophile.com/content/quad-esl-63-loudspeaker-larry-greenhill

 

[JohnVF]

The link below may be helpful.

http://forum.stereophile.com/content/quad-esl-63-loudspeaker-larry-greenhill

That makes me feel better about it...seems these don't have quite the destructive protection circuit as earlier ones. I can't find out much on the 'pro' version, but it looks like the USA monitor was developed from them. Mine are utilitarian looking..complete with carrying handles on the sides! (yuck).

They've been completely rebuilt with new panels and updated electronics by Electrostatic Solutions.

 

[JoeESP9]

BTW: Congratulations. They are (IMO) speakers with midrange and treble to die for.

I've never heard the original 63's. I have heard the "US Monitors". I thought they were slightly bass shy. However, the room they were in was too large for them.

Just add a couple of subs if you feel they're lacking in low bass. That fixed my "stats" weak low bass.

 

[JohnVF]

BTW: Congratulations. They are (IMO) speakers with midrange and treble to die for.

I've never heard the original 63's. I have heard the "US Monitors". I thought they were slightly bass shy. However, the room they were in was too large for them.

Just add a couple of subs if you feel they're lacking in low bass. That fixed my "stats" weak low bass.

Thanks. Oh..the designation is "PRO-63", just found that out.

I didn't mention in this thread but I also have the matching Gradient di-pole subs for them. They act like bases, too, but the whole set gets to be a bit gigantic for my current room, and also crosses over the ESLs below 110hz. Auditioning them I was a bit divided on which way sounded better..full range Quad or the Quad/Gradient combination. Either way...if they prove to be bass shy, I can add the subs. Until I get a dedicated room, however, I might just run them full range w/o subs.

Here are the subs and speakers from the store's website:

 

[hatrack71]

From what I've read these particular 63s are less fragile than the 57s, and even less fragile than the non-PRO version of the 63, with a 'more sophisticated protection circuit', whatever that means. I've read that in the regular ESL-63...Prior to arcing, they will shut down, placing a 2ohm (or possibly lower?) load across the speaker terminals. It's this 'crowbar' that I'm scared of, but my amp 'should' be able to handle it. And I really don't listen that loudly so it might be something I never even have to deal with.

That crowbar is why I am using Mac gear- it is virtually indestructible.

 

[JohnVF]

That crowbar is why I am using Mac gear- it is virtually indestructible.

The irony is that I bought the Levinson for the same reason, thinking I was going to buy a pair of big Infinities. And now I'm worried about its destruction (hopefully needlessly). If it wasn't so powerful I wouldn't worry.

 

[hatrack71]

The irony is that I bought the Levinson for the same reason, thinking I was going to buy a pair of big Infinities. And now I'm worried about its destruction (hopefully needlessly). If it wasn't so powerful I wouldn't worry.

I would have gone Levinson ML-2s but the right deals just never came up. Guess I'll have to settle for McIntosh 240 and Mc40s- it's a rough life let me tell ya.

 

[JohnVF]

I would have gone Levinson ML-2s but the right deals just never came up. Guess I'll have to settle for McIntosh 240 and Mc40s- it's a rough life let me tell ya.

The ML-2s are what the previous owner was using on these. I saw them...they were in immaculate condition (as are the speakers, essentially having been rebuilt to as-new), but I didn't get a chance to hear them. I will agree though that they sound wonderful on McIntosh amplification! Those amps were one reason I was in the store...I had no intention of buying speakers yesterday. But they had just sold. If I hadn't had to wait for my friend, who called and said she was going to meet me there, I probably wouldn't have convinced them to let me hear these speakers. After I heard them, it was all over.

The Gradient subs integrated very well. Better than I thought they would. Still, I really liked the speakers full range.

 

[eurasian]

Sell your big Levinson and buy ML-2s, NYAL Futtermans or even a Fourier Triomphe if you can find them. They probably would work very well with any of Karsten's OTL amps, too.

 

[JohnVF]

Sell your big Levinson and buy ML-2s, NYAL Futtermans or even a Fourier Triomphe if you can find them. They probably would work very well with any of Karsten's OTL amps, too.

I like that amp too much to do that. If they don't work well with it, it will become an amp in a different system and I'll figure out a new solution for these speakers, possibly one of these that you mention. At any given time I have more than one system up and running and the Levinson will find a home if it doesn't play nicely with these speakers. I've done a lot more reading and it sounds like both speakers and amp are well protected against a 'disagreement', and that these particular "PRO-63" Quads are ok with power, to a point.

 

[Erocka2000]

I'm definitely a novice, but have you looked at the Quad 405 amp? I believe it was made specifically for the ESL 63s. They are usually quite affordable on A'gon. Though I'm guessing your Levinson will easily out perform it. I'm currently using the Quad 303, which was their first SS amp, and was designed for the Quad ESL57s. It has a very warm, tubelike sound for a SS. It puts out about 45wpc. BTW, those are some beautiful speakers you just picked up.

 

[JoeESP9]

Thanks. Oh..the designation is "PRO-63", just found that out.

I didn't mention in this thread but I also have the matching Gradient di-pole subs for them. They act like bases, too, but the whole set gets to be a bit gigantic for my current room, and also crosses over the ESLs below 110hz. Auditioning them I was a bit divided on which way sounded better..full range Quad or the Quad/Gradient combination. Either way...if they prove to be bass shy, I can add the subs. Until I get a dedicated room, however, I might just run them full range w/o subs.

Here are the subs and speakers from the store's website:

My Acoustats and SPW-1 come with a built in 100Hz crossover. When I bi amped them I bypassed the internal crossovers and used 80Hz. I thought there was an improvement with the lower frequency. Now with dual TL subs I still use 80Hz for a crossover frequency. 100 Hz just doesn't sound right to me. A lower frequency for the Gradients may sound better.

In any case, my heartiest congratulations. Those are some seriously good speakers.

 

[JohnVF]

I'm definitely a novice, but have you looked at the Quad 405 amp? I believe it was made specifically for the ESL 63s. They are usually quite affordable on A'gon. Though I'm guessing your Levinson will easily out perform it. I'm currently using the Quad 303, which was their first SS amp, and was designed for the Quad ESL57s. It has a very warm, tubelike sound for a SS. It puts out about 45wpc. BTW, those are some beautiful speakers you just picked up.

I have looked into Quad amps. There's a 606 at the store I got these speakers at...if the Levinson and the 63s don't get along (apparently even a dead-short from the 63's protection circuit will only send the Levinson into protection..apparently....) I may borrow the 606 to see how it sounds. I've read the 405 is a better match to the 57s than 63s..the 63s actually liking a bit of power/current.