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An audible step up.

dogn4u

Active Member
I started thinking about vinyl just before Christmas. It had been 25 years or so. Like so many, I was dazzled by the digital gleam of CDs, then the instant gratification of the MP3, and my (huge) record collection shrunk every time I moved (which was a lot, back in the eighties). I'm sure I'm not the only approaching-fifty guy on here who wishes he hadn't been so hasty in giving those thousands of records away.

But dear old vinyl is back Yep, I had exactly two records at Christmas 2010. My brother knew I was getting back into vinyl, so he got me "Beggar's Banquet" and "Let it Bleed" on big heavy super-duper discs. My two fave albums of all...180g vinyl. And digitally remastered.

I gotta say, I think the idea of digitizing vinyl mixes is stupid and misses the whole point. It seems to me that with vinyl - the very definition of analog; you can SEE the waves, for God's sake - one would AVOID a/d conversion and cut the damn masters right from tape.

To be fair, I also realize that the master tape is not always available, nor a 2" machine to run it. And editing digital is faster, easier, and more precise than preserving an analog path. We're talking about records! THE analog medium.Why, oh why would you chop it up a work of music with a billion paper cuts unnecessarily?

Anyway, DSP or not, I'm just not terribly impressed. I remember around 1980 paying $20 for a new Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs pressing of "Aja", which is a pretty good sounding recording to begin with. THAT was a good sounding album, as are a few from thrift stores...you never know. These two new Stones classic reissues? Ehh. they're OK. To give credit where due, they are amazingly flat, clean, and quiet. Still, I expected more. It certainly could be that I was expecting a sound just not possible with '68 and '69 technology.

Things moved quickly in the Seventies in terms of album fidelity and sonics. My theory is that period of the sixties and seventies was the time during which rock stars started to make a lot of money, and much went into studios.

I don't know as I believe in "Hot Stampers" per se, but over years of listening, well, of course some sound better. I just picked up ZZ Top's "Deguello" and Ry Cooder's "Bop 'Till You Drop" - seven and three bucks, respectively, and they both sound incredible. The sound just leaps out at you! So, you know, if I'm feeling flush I might buy, to the delight of us crusty old so-an-so's.

But let me finish my turntable evolution. Just before Christmas, I bought the very cheapest belt-drive I could find: a Pyle, fully manual; $80. Then I found an AT 440MLa cart on sale for under $100. Still didn't sound very good, so the conventional wisdom that 'a better tt a good cartridge will not make'...is true. I had a gold plated dog turd.

Then I got a Dual 506 from my dad that turned out to be all warped. The whole thing. Allegedly nice cart, tho, so I kept it. I might just carve a solid wood plynth and use it with the old parts. The arm looks great.

Finally I broke down and bought a brand new Denon 300D tt. This got consistent reviews: "great table and arm; lousy cartridge". Of course I had the AT ready to go, and not only did the 440 sound killer, it was one specifically mentioned by one of those mags as a good replace for the mysteriously bad stock cart.

Very pleased indeed.
 

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I just picked up ZZ Top's "Deguello" and Ry Cooder's "Bop 'Till You Drop" - seven and three bucks, respectively, and they both sound incredible. The sound just leaps out at you!

"Bop 'Till You Drop" was one of the first rock albums to be digitally recorded, way back in '79...
 
Some remaster jobs really don't favor the dynamic range at all. Things get compressed and it ends up sounding somewhat devoid of life. Might want to pick up an old copy of Let It Bleed and see what you think. Mine sounds good, but I wouldn't call it the most lively sounding album either. its an old London pressing that I got for a buck at a thrift store years ago.
 
Couldn't agree with you more. Couple years ago my dear bride bought me the remastered CD box set of "Layla", my all-time desert island album. It did come with some cool box candy, including alternate takes, session jams, repro's of track sheets, etc. But when A/B'd with the original release vinyl (via a Marantz PM-320 pro-grade CD deck, vs. an Ortofon OM-10 cart), the remastered CD sounds like a bad idea that was executed by a committee.

(edit) BUT... when A/Bing vinyl vs. CD of a *digital* recording (i.e. Dire Straits "Brothers In Arms") my ears give just a *very* slight edge to the vinyl, and that may only be because I'm inherently biased (I'm an old man too).
 
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Great post Dogn, nice imagery. Glad to see you're finding some satisfaction with your new table and rediscovering your LP's.
BTW, welcome to AK! It will be nice to have you contributing!
 
I know it and I remembered it. Kind of ironic, the way I'm bitching about digital.

Ry Cooder gave an interview on the BBC here in the UK some years ago .. he said that he was very disapointed with the recording because he knew there was so much more on it.
It happens to be one of my favourites too so you have to imagine how much better it should have been.
 
Have you listened to Donald Fagen " The Nightfly". Digital recorded & Awesome sound. :music:

oh yeah. The Nightfly was my go-to reference album for years. Several Dan albums sound great: Countdown to Ecstasy; Royal Scam.

Until I discovered the Mark Needham engineered Chris Isaak albums. Regardless of how you feel about Isaak, you should listen to a Needham job. Best sounding CDs ever. Let's go with the vinyl, boys, and make sure Needham is in charge.

Hard to believe the Nightfly is almost 30. Ouch. Aja, while certainly their coup de grace, is a bit too compressed for my taste, especially Porcaro's drums.
 
To be honest with you, I bought the 180g reissue of exile on main street, which I love the music on, and it sounds like garbage. The vinyl itself is fine, and the record plays clean, it just lacks any dynamics. I'm very disappointed, wont buy another.
 
If you're looking for a true reference piece of vinyl, here's my favorite: Hugh Masekela's live album "Hope". It's two 45 RPM disks on 180 gram vinyl. I managed to buy a used copy for $30 bucks, but if you can find it new, you'll drop upwards of $50 on it. That's a lot of scratch (at least in my world it is), but it's worth every penny.

Another great live album is the MFSL recording of Little Feat's Waiting for Columbus album.

But if you're into Donald Fagen, try finding a copy of his latest solo album, Morph the Cat. I have it on DVD-Audio, and its dynamics are out of this world.
 
I've noticed a bit of a theme here and with other discussions of this nature. Albums that were recorded in digital from the get-go seem to sound just fine on CD where albums that were originally done in analog don't seem to hold up as well. I can't help but think its because the A-D process loses something. Either that, or the original digital recording doesn't quite pick up the subtle nuances of super and sub-sonics that analog will, so when it gets transferred to various mediums, theres no appreciable change in sound response.
 
To be honest with you, I bought the 180g reissue of exile on main street, which I love the music on, and it sounds like garbage. The vinyl itself is fine, and the record plays clean, it just lacks any dynamics. I'm very disappointed, wont buy another.
Exactly my take on my 180g "Beggar's Banquet" and "Let it Bleed". Flat, quiet...lacking dynamics. Usually I can hear overcompression, but some of the new studio plug-ins are almost indetectable. Except, of course, for the loss of dynamics.

Great new record store in Santa Barbara, tho: good prices; also sell some used vintage equipment inc TTs. Warbler Music, 100 block of East de la Guerra St. $3-10 bucks for most.
 
Albums that were recorded in digital from the get-go seem to sound just fine on CD where albums that were originally done in analog don't seem to hold up as well. I can't help but think its because the A-D process loses something.

I think it's more likely that the engineers re-jigger things and fail to keep what was good about the original master.
 
There is a thread here on the best sounding versions of The Stones lps. I like all of the SACDs I have. Worth checking out if you have SACD capability.
That Dual is a decent table. I had one one as a back-up right up until this winter. It was unused for years and it fired up just fine when I was checking it out before selling it. If I hadn't come across some better tables it would still be one of my back-ups. Be careful with that arm. The cartridge holder on mine was kinda flakey.
 
I know it and I remembered it. Kind of ironic, the way I'm bitching about digital.

Ever wondered why digital cameras look just like analogue cameras? Digital mixing desks look just like analogue? CD players look just like minature record decks with parallel tracking arms? For me just tell's us that the engineering of the 50's got it right and digital engineering hasn't been able to improve on the aesthetic or ergonomic thinking behind analogue.
 
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