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Another 681EEE question

rooster18

Active Member
OK, I have a 681EEE MKIII cartridge/stylus on my system (SME 3009 S2 Improved, Thorens TD125 MKII), and I'm looking to stock up on a few extra styli for the future. This is the question: LPGear sells replacement styli for this cartridge, and they have several replacements. Do I need to use the MKIII stylus, this one:

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=STNS681EEEMK3

or can I use this "upgraded" stylus?

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=STAD6800EEE2S

I've eMailed LPGear, and haven't gotten a response, and I've called Stanton, and haven't gotten a response.

Any help?

rooster.
 
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Let your budget be your guide. Either will do a nice job. The "upgraded" stylus closely resembles in form and function the "Stereohedron" stylus that used to be marketed by Stanton on their best styli. It will track the grooves deeper, potentially deliver more detail and be a bit quieter as it traces the grooves. However, the hyperelliptical will do a very nice job as well.
 
Considering the "upgrade" is only $30, I'm not too worried about the budget aspects. Just whether the "upgraded" stylus will fit my cartridge. Will it be compatible?

rooster.
 
It will work fine. I bought a 681EEE originally and eventually "upgraded" to the EEE-S stylus.
 
Rooster, on my original post about the 681EEE, Mk II, III I had a similar question especially as to what was the difference. Lpgear has a few styluses that fit the 681 that seem to be a different number same price, say "hyperelliptical," but you cant really tell what's different. The "EEE2S' at least distinguishes itself as a Shibata tip which, as whell says, is closest to the "stereohedron" of the Stanton. Hope you get an answer -- let us know if you do.
 
Just updating: according to Stanton, ALL the 680 series needles will fit in a 681EEE cartridge, and the EEE2S is the "best" one, for tracking and fidelity.

rooster.
 
I'm curious, I have an original 681EEE on my Dual 1229 and have toyed with the idea of replacing it just for fun or something different. Would I notice much of a difference between my original cartridge (which has a Stanton replacement stylus bought in the early 80s') and one of the EEE2S styluses? Would you recommend it? There is nothing wrong with the one I have now but I would like to experiment a little. Thanks!
 
Well, speaking for myself, I can't recommend anything one way or another. However, I'm going to order the E2 stylus from LPGear, and then I can compare one against the other. Once I do that, if I notice a difference, I'll be glad to pass it along. I gotta say that for the money, I do like my Stanton cartridge, but I have a limited number of carts I've used to compare it with.

rooster.
 
Considering the "upgrade" is only $30, I'm not too worried about the budget aspects. Just whether the "upgraded" stylus will fit my cartridge. Will it be compatible?

rooster.

I guess when I suggested that either would do a nice job, the issue of 'compatibility" I assumed was inherent in the response. Sorry if that was not clear. As another poster has suggested, Stanton styli within a particular series - the "68X series" as an example - are interchangeable. The primary difference when Stanton was still making these cartridges was the stylus/cantilever assembly. The cartridge body was pretty much constant, the variable was the design of the stylus, and the design varied by intended application: whether consumer, broadcasting or recording industry application.

You can also expand your options to Pickering styli: any of the XV-15 series styli are compatible with your 68X series cartridge.
 
Let your budget be your guide. Either will do a nice job. The "upgraded" stylus closely resembles in form and function the "Stereohedron" stylus that used to be marketed by Stanton on their best styli. It will track the grooves deeper, potentially deliver more detail and be a bit quieter as it traces the grooves. However, the hyperelliptical will do a very nice job as well.

I have the hyperelliptical (stock Mark III) and like it very much. Long ago I had the S-type and I don't remember it sounding this good but then I have a better TT now. But as for the groove contact, it occurs to me that the greater amount of contact with the surface, the greater the potential for surface noise... what am I missing?
The better traceability and detail makes perfect sense to me.
 
I have the hyperelliptical (stock Mark III) and like it very much. Long ago I had the S-type and I don't remember it sounding this good but then I have a better TT now. But as for the groove contact, it occurs to me that the greater amount of contact with the surface, the greater the potential for surface noise... what am I missing?
The better traceability and detail makes perfect sense to me.

The conventional wisdom is that the Stereohedron or Shibata trace the grooves deeper than other styli, so they "go past" the dirt and dust on the that are higher on the walls of the grooves on the record. I'm not sure that I completely buy this, as there is possibly "new dirt and dust" that lie deeper in the groove that the Stereohedron finds that the hyperelliptical could not dig deep enough to get to. However, my general experience is that these styli do tend to render a quieter background than other styli do.

As with all things audio, your mileage may vary....
 
I have the hyperelliptical (stock Mark III) and like it very much. Long ago I had the S-type and I don't remember it sounding this good but then I have a better TT now. But as for the groove contact, it occurs to me that the greater amount of contact with the surface, the greater the potential for surface noise... what am I missing?
The better traceability and detail makes perfect sense to me.

One of the main advantages of the extended contact patch of line contact stylii such as Shibata is that they seem to trace parts of the groove which haven't been contacted by other elliptical or conical stylii. That often means that the sound will be better and like playing a brand new record. Certainly, I've found that to be the case with the line contact stylii I own. I have a few very old records which I bought when I was young, in my "pre-hi-fi" days, which have been played on fairly ordinary equipment, which sound old, noisy and distorted played with elliptical stylii. However, things like my 681EEE-S, 881S or Shure V15 Type V MR still play them as though they are (almost) new records, due to the different stylus shape. I was sceptical :scratch2: when I saw a hi-fi journalist initially suggest it's because the line contact stylii are playing "virgin" parts of the groove, but having heard the amazing difference in sound myself, I now agree.:thmbsp: It's not the case with all records, of course - I've bought some shocking secondhand records that were past redemption, but many records which do sound bad can be played with line contact stylii, and sound much better.

While you may be right that greater contact would increase the chances of contact with dirt, and hence increase noise, that doesn't seem to be the fact. The line contact stylii are still only making contact with the groove walls, even if it is over a larger area, and not actually with the very centre of the grooves, at the base of the V, which is probably where the majority of dirt collects. Mind you, it probably depends how dirty your records are.:D I've always been careful to keep mine as clean as possible, by cleaning them regularly, and using plastic covers over records to keep dust out.

I'm curious, I have an original 681EEE on my Dual 1229 and have toyed with the idea of replacing it just for fun or something different. Would I notice much of a difference between my original cartridge (which has a Stanton replacement stylus bought in the early 80s') and one of the EEE2S styluses? Would you recommend it? There is nothing wrong with the one I have now but I would like to experiment a little. Thanks!

While I doubt you'll hear an amazing improvement in sound (I don't), the S stylus is often better for the reason I've outlined above, compared to the elliptical stylus. The main advantage, though, is that it wears less, and wears your records less, due to the extended contact patch. This spreads the tracking weight over a greater area, leading to less pressure per unit of area, and so less wear. As a matter of fact, Stanton used to regularly advertise that fact, complete with elctron microscope photos of record grooves after being played 200 times to demonstrate it, for their stereohedron stylus, back in the late 1970's and 80's. You could see appreciable wear with an ordinary stylus, and virtually no wear with the stereohedron.

While there is no real need to change the stylus you've got now until it's worn, the Shibata stylus, or any other line contact stylus, is a worthwhile improvement.

-Don
 
I'll add my limited experience with a few styli. My D6800EEE-2-S from LP Gear can and DOES make very old records I bought new (and played on crappy BSR changers) sound like new. They are MUCH quieter. I love that my records sound new again.

But about a week ago, I did an A/B/C comparison with a thrift store record with the above expensive stylus, a brand new Stanton D6800EE (mid-line), and an old original D625 stylus from a Pickering XV-15 with some hours left on it. I played the same song on two different TT's with all the styli.

The higher end D6800EEE-2-S actually made clicks and pops a little louder. The D6800EE played the song with the pops less noticeable - very good detail and similar output level, but not quite as nice sonically - especially in the highs. The D625 played the song's pops and clicks as quiet as the D66800EE, but due to it's age and hours, sounded much more warm and had a lower output overall. A very pleasing sound from a 32 year old stylus.

So maybe the Shibata was tracing deeper, but on this particular record, it was finding (and playing) a deeper scratch the other two kinda missed.

But, for records I've cared for their entire lives (no scratches), the more expensive Shibata makes them sound like new - like I am hearing them for the first time - and also hearing things I hadn't heard up until now. That sure is fun.

Rob
 
One of the main advantages of the extended contact patch of line contact stylii such as Shibata is that they seem to trace parts of the groove which haven't been contacted by other elliptical or conical stylii. That often means that the sound will be better and like playing a brand new record. Certainly, I've found that to be the case with the line contact stylii I own. I have a few very old records which I bought when I was young, in my "pre-hi-fi" days, which have been played on fairly ordinary equipment, which sound old, nosiy and distorted played with elliptical stylii. However, things like my 681EEE-S, 881S or Shure V15 Type V MR still play them as though they are (almost) new records, due to the different stylus shape. I was sceptical :scratch2: when I saw a hi-fi journalist initially suggest it's because the line contact stylii are playing "virgin" parts of the groove, but having heard the amazing difference in sound myself, I now agree.:thmbsp: It's not the case with all records, of course - I've bought some shocking secondhand records that were past redemption, but many records which do sound bad can be played with line contact stylii, and sound much better.

While you may be right that greater contact would increase the chances of contact with dirt, and hence increase noise, that doesn't seem to be the fact. The line contact stylii are still only making contact with the groove walls, even if it is over a larger area, and not actually with the very centre of the grooves, at the base of the V, which is probably where the majority of dirt collects. Mind you, it probably depends how dirty your records are.:D I've always been careful to keep mine as clean as possible, by cleaning them regularly, and using plastic covers over records to keep dust out.



While I doubt you'll hear an amazing improvement in sound (I don't), the S stylus is often better for the reason I've outlined above, compared to the elliptical stylus. The main advantage, though, is that it wears less, and wears your records less, due to the extended contact patch. This spreads the tracking weight over a greater area, leading to less pressure per unit of area, and so less wear. As a matter of fact, Stanton used to regularly advertise that fact, complete with elctron microscope photos of record grooves after being played 200 times to demonstrate it, for their stereohedron stylus, back in the late 1970's and 80's. You could see appreciable wear with an ordinary stylus, and virtually no wear with the stereohedron.

While there is no real need to change the stylus you've got now until it's worn, the Shibata stylus, or any other line contact stylus, is a worthwhile improvement.

-Don

Thanks Don! That's interesting for sure and I have just learned something from the well of knowledge here on AK, I appreciate it! :thmbsp:
I may try a Shibata at some point and will let everyone know my findings.
 
Well, speaking for myself, I can't recommend anything one way or another. However, I'm going to order the E2 stylus from LPGear, and then I can compare one against the other. Once I do that, if I notice a difference, I'll be glad to pass it along. I gotta say that for the money, I do like my Stanton cartridge, but I have a limited number of carts I've used to compare it with.

rooster.

Thanks rooster! I have always liked my Stanton as well but I really haven't spent much time with that TT for several years since I bought the Rega and built a new system. I have just recently installed my Dual 1229 w/681EEE into this vintage system I have put together and have been enjoying it quite allot on the weekends while surfing the web. Sort of rekindled an old love I guess! It's also got my tweaking juices flowing! :D
 
OK, passing the results along. I just got the LPGear shibata stylus. The difference is astounding. Just like many of you folks here on the forum said, it's almost like the records were brand new again. I just spun "Black and Blue" from the Stones, "Morrison Hotel" from the Doors, and "Abbey Road" (don't really need to say who THAT's from), and the sound is unbelievable. While the 681EEE sounded great by itself, this takes everything up a significant notch. Sibilance is no longer noticable at all, the bass seems tighter, punchier, and more "surrounding", if that makes sense. The drums punch out to where you can almost hear the resonance of the wood, and the guitars sound like the amps are right in the room with you. You can hear that grind on Keef's guitars like you're in the studio with them. The vocals are smoother, clearer, and every nuance and quirk is right there with you.

Considering the cartridge cost $130, and the upgraded stylus was $80, I think it was a very worthwhile buy. There are better cartridges, surely, for more money, but I'm so very comfortable with this setup that I'll be buying 2 or 3 more styli from LPGear over the next year just to stock up on them -- every time I find something I like, they stop making it.

While you can probably go out and buy a new cart/needle setup for less money that may perform as well, if you already have a 681EEE, this upgrade is certainly worth $80. I know there is better stuff on the market, but at this price, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a noticably better bang for the buck.

Also, while I'm mentioning "bang for the buck", the Nagaoka 152 Record Roller works VERY well if you don't have an RCM. It does indeed pull the schmutz right out of the groove. I got mine on Clearance from Sleeve City for $25 brand new. I just give the records a zap with the gun, roll them with the 152 to pull the dust off them and out of the grooves, and then give them a shot of Phoenix record cleaning fluid and scrub it out with a MoFi record cleaning brush/pad. When I throw them on the platter, I use a carbon brush on them to get the last of the nasties off, and they play pretty much dead quiet. Eventually, I'll build an RCM (can't justify the cost of buying one for what they are; I'm a pretty good carpenter/tinkerer, so I'm already designing one), but for now, this system seems to work.

Thanks for all the help and input. I wouldn't have heard of any of this stuff if it weren't for you kind folks who are so very free with your info. Hope I can pay it back in the future.

rooster.
 
Hey, thanks for the update rooster! Makes me feel better. You know I looked on soundring (Australia) at their EEE and thought maybe it was a genuine Stanton but it's not. The LPgear seems to be a good way to go, I'll likely pull the trigger. The Stanton will be the only non-AT cart I have so I welcome the variety and from what I've heard of mine so far it's worth the new stylus. Payback? Heck, you already have!
 
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