Another Denon Turntable (DP-47F) Cartridge Question

[river25]

Hi,

I love my DP-47F and it is mated with an Ortofon 2M Bronze cartridge. However the base of the cart just barely touches the LP. There is no height adjustment on the DP-47F, and the 2M is a deep cartridge and, the whole thing rides a little too low for my liking.

Therefore, I am looking out for a cart of similar quality to the 2M bronze, but not quite so deep. The Nagaoka MP-500 and Audi Technica AT-150MLX look like fine candidates.

However.... there seems to be different opinions around the net on whether a high, low or mid compliance cart is the best match for the DP-47F.

The actual DP-47F manual states it has a low mass tone arm and to use high compliance carts. The original cart was a Denon DL-80MC, which has a lower compliance than the 2M Bronze... though I understand Denon do their compliance tests at 100Hz instead of 10.

Saw a post or two about that says the DP-47F, being a servo-controlled tone arm, is not worried about cart compliance?

So, I am a little confused and hope some of the AK Denon gurus can come out and enlighten me.

 

[slippers-on]

The 2M Bronze is alright as long as it doesnt touch the LP. They all ride that way. I have a black and it too rides low...I love that cart...also have a 2M Red and its low as well.

 

[seminole54]

river25

I have never thought the 2M series was a good match for the Vintage Japanese low mass tonearms, but the dealers will tell you otherwise. For a lower price the OM-30 is a better match. Whether or not the electronic damping system makes up for the compliance issues is not really the issue, though it does to a point. If the arm has no VTA adjustment and the cartridge body is taller than what the standard height was for that era then you will have an issue.

 

[river25]

Yes, the 2M is a taller cart than what the table would of had in it's day.

I can swap over my garrott (running on an SL-1700) but the garrot/SL-1700 combo is simply superb and I don't want to separate them.

The 2M bronze sounds wonderful on the DP-47F and I know its a low rider... but sometimes its actually touching the LP.

I need to know if the compliance is an issue or not for the servo arms on these old Denons, so I can at least have some direction of what to look for.

 

[stonedeaf]

compliance not a factor

own and thoroughly enjoy a DP-61F - the big sister of what you've got. Have used both 2m Red and Blue on mine - no problem ? The arm height issue is the only reason I bought a JVC QL-y5f. AS far as I can figure the Non-adjustable Denon servo arm table/arms seem to work well with anything around 17mm(+/- a bit). To use a DL-103 - I had to make up a plate to add height to the cart -this still worked really well and sounded wonderful.Compliance seems to be effectively a non-issue for these arms and their brethren from other makers.
Try a DL-110 -for all the obvious reasons -these seem to be a natural for the Denon electric arms.Am puzzled that your ortofon isn't working well with the 47f's arm? Are you using the stock Denon headshell ?

 

[andx0r]

Try a DL-110 -for all the obvious reasons -these seem to be a natural for the Denon electric arms.Am puzzled that your ortofon isn't working well with the 47f's arm? Are you using the stock Denon headshell ?

That's what I've got on mine! No complaints.

 

[seminole54]

With Denon's version of the Q-Damping the compliance is not an issue in general. The issue with a non-adjustable tonearm VTA is the overall height of the cartridge body. The 2M series were designed with the Rega and Project arms in mind which accounts for their shape. Those arms are taller and the 2M is not a problem. The Servo-Tracer type arms ride lower so cartridge height is an issue if not adjustable. As stonedeaf said, Denon's own cartridges will resolve all of the issues. I own both the DL-110 and the DL-301 and have no issues with height.

 

[river25]

Hi,

Try a DL-110 -for all the obvious reasons -these seem to be a natural for the Denon electric arms.Am puzzled that your ortofon isn't working well with the 47f's arm? Are you using the stock Denon headshell ?

Yes, I might try a DL-110.

The 2M bronze works well. It does sound superb! However the body of the cart does contact the LP. It's probably a poofteenth of a touch and makes no diff to the sound or hurt the LP, but I just don't like seeing the cart come in contact with the LP.

I could go butcher on it and sand/file the underbody of the 2M bronze. It wouldn't need any more than the thickness of a cigarette paper to get clearance, but I usually keep files, hammers, oxy torches, spanners, and sand paper away from my turntables

 

[3kitty]

I have the Denon DP-45F and use the Denon DL-301MKII with no issues.
A good friend has your table and has used a Denon DL110 / DL160 and DL301 with no issues.

Good luck.