Arkay
Lunatic Member
This evening was another interesting one for audio, which I thought I'd share.
A couple days ago, the dealer from whom I'm getting the Yamaha 101M told me it would be returned and available today (it was out on loan to his friend). It's return has been delayed several times, stretching to a couple of months, but this time it sounded more certain, so I went by today to find out...
The beast is mine!...
YES! It was there. I had the money for it sitting ready in reserve for some weeks, but dipped into it recently to pay for some other things. I explained this to the guy, and --under the circumstances, since I had waited so long already, he laughingly agreed to let me pay for it in installments, however I wished. Whew! It'll be coming home in a month or so from now, at the latest, but in any event it is "mine" and will be joining my main system.
I examined it closely: there are a few teensy-tiny scratches along the edges of the two handles in front, and a few on the left-channel volume knob, but they were only visible when I was shining my LED flashlight on them, and looking from close-up; from beyond a foot or two, or in normal lighting, they are invisible. Overall, this is in GREAT cosmetic shape, especially for something around twenty years old -- it's a beauty!
It's a 100V model. I recently learned that there were THREE of these sold in Hong Kong in years past, that were wired by Yamaha for 220V. I believe the two they sold into the German market were also 220V, but I haven't confirmed any others. While I'd prefer a 220V version, I think those are basically "unobtanium", and I'm more than happy to settle for a 100V version. I have a 7500 watt extreme isolation transformer that has 100V taps; that should be big enough to feed this hungry beast well enough, and I have a Japanese "audiophile grade" power strip I can wire up to that, to plug both channels of this into. Eventually I'll run a separate dedicated line for it, as well. This is the last "weak link" in my main system (except for cables, perhaps: I have "decent" cables, not "audiophile" cables, but that is not such a big deal to me, at least at this stage.)
Comparing GT TTs...
I noticed the dealer had a GT-750 hooked up to the system, and asked him how it sounded, and how it compared to the GT-2000. He said he'd never done a comparison, but he thought the GT-750 sounded pretty darned good. He offered to let me hear it, and proceeded to play a record.
I had to agree; it sounded quite good. No way for me to make a fair comparison with my GT-2000, because this was using a different cartridge (low-end Ortofon with a poor stylus), different gear chain altogether, in a very different listening environment. Still, the impression I had was that this was a very good TT by most standards, but still not quite up to the level of the GT-2000. There was a GT-750 platter lying around (from another TT), and I picked it up and examined it. It was nowhere near as heavy and solid as the GT-2000 platter, nor was it made the same way. Heavy and massive by ordinary standards, it was still clearly not in the same league of sheer mass as the GT-2000 platter.
***
While I was there, the same guy who was there recently with a $3000 Kondo cable came in again, this time with a decent but budget-level power cable he had bought off of eBay. (I get the feeling he likes to hang out there, and likes "cable rolling!" :yes:
) The 101M caught his eye, too, and we talked about it, and other things.
A CD surprise...
Then a bit more elderly (sixties?) gentleman came in to audition some speakers, large late 40s or 50s ones (sorry, I didn't get the model number). He had brought in some CDs to play.demo them with. Interestingly, one of the ones he pulled out was a local Chinese CD that I bought new back in the 1980s, after my wife and I saw the particular artist in concert. The other guy immediately checked it, and saw it was black. Too bad, he explained: this CD was issued in three colors: the original was orange. Something happened to the masters from that (I think they were lost in a fire), and it was re-done and re-released in the black and the white versions. Collectors have churned the price of those original orange CDs up over US$300 each.
I came home and confirmed it...mine is the original and valuable orange version! Hanging on to my original locally-bought CDs from when I first started buying CDs has turned out to be a great investment: I've been discovering that a number of them have gone way up in value in recent years, just as this one has. (Of course, it's only meaningful if I sell, which I don't intend to, but it's still nice! )
I spent some enjoyable time listening to the system while the elderly gentleman guy was evaluating the speakers, and discussing audio with him. He's been an audiophile (in the good sense of the word) for over thirty years, and has owned a LOT of gear, including original Marantz tube stuff and many other fine things. We discussed the strengths and weaknesses of the old speakers he was listening to, and he said he almost preferred their limited range to the more clinical and exact full-range modern speakers, even though with age he could no longer really hear the high-end treble. He valued musicality and a lack of listener fatigue more than complete realism, etc... It was an interesting listening session and discussions, and a very pleasant way to pass some time.
THE FIRST GARRARD:
At one point, before those guys came in, I had noticed a bit of a dusty-looking Garrard 401 peeking out from under some rumpled newspapers and plastic bags on the floor level of a big gear display rack along one wall. It looked like someone had just tossed it there like so much trash. I laughingly commented to the dealer that only in a shop like his would a TT that nice be left there that way!
He laughted, too, and told me that someone had brought it in for repair/renovation of the plinth. He said (quite correctly) that the papers and bags on top weren't hurting it and might be keeping further dust off it, but also admitted that the owner probably wouldn't like it if he saw his beloved TT sitting there that way.
He then commented that he didn't quite understand why the Garrard 301s and 401s fetched such high prices, when the GT-2000 actually sounds better than either of them, yet costs a lot less. We concluded it was probably partly nostalgia, partly reputation, and partly supply-and-demand that accounted for it (301s/401s are rarer, at least in Japan, where the price escalation was driven from over the years).
A few Lencos....
After I left that shop, I walked around some other audio shops. In one, I saw a Lenco L75 sitting next to a Lenco L70. I don't think I've ever seen an L70 before, so I made note of it and decided to look it up later. I was slightly tempted by it, because alongside a few L75s, I already have two other Lenco models (B52 and L85)... that evil "collector's urge" to further "complete the set" almost reared it's head, but then sanity prevailed and I walked away. Ten minutes later, I found another L75 in a different shop. The first one had been priced at $175, but this one was marked at $285. Both were in working condition; as far as I could see, the only difference was that the second one had had its plinth oiled. Again, I was tempted to snap up the "bargain" first one, but only for a few seconds. I have enough L75s, at least for now.
I'm not acquiring anything, unless it is REALLY "special" (to me). But soon enough, I find something "special" enough that I DO get it...
FIND OF THE NIGHT: THE SECOND GARRARD!
I then went over to look at some of the used-audio wholesale places. When I got to the place where I recently bought the Marantz 2325, I looked around and didn't see much at first. I was getting ready to leave, when I saw a horizontal/top-loading type cassette deck on top of a stack. I always check these, hoping to find a Marantz one, but again no luck
, at least as far as the Marantz idea goes --this was just an Akai 46 series one; I have at least one of those in storage to get rid of, as it is. Then I notice that it is sitting on top of something that looks like it might be interesting...
I lift the Akai off, and sitting underneath it, find a very, very cool-looking vintage Garrard with a big, heavy platter reminiscent (in size, at least) of the one on the 301s! From the molded top plate and big, relatively massive tonearm, I figure this is a mid-fifties design. I decide within seconds that "I WANT THIS!" I pick it up and look at the mechanism underneath... it has a BIG platter bearing housing on the scale of that in the 301, a nice motor, and a large idler-wheel drive mechanism. It is a LOT like the 301, in various details, althouigh in some ways (tonearm wiring, for example) a bit simplified, and frankly, I think this thing looks MUCH prettier than any 301 ever did! It has all four speeds, and a very interesting-looking speed-control/adjustment system. Very nice build quality overall, for a fifties design. (I've since read that it was in production from 1955 to 1965, and was considered "the best" TT for at least part of that time period.) The model number on the badge on top reads "4HF (H)". It appears to be in excellent shape, except that the headshell and cartridge are missing. :sigh: (I suspect someone may have wanted to keep those for the sound, or perhaps to sell separately for more money? Or maybe the thing broke, and they threw it out?).
Still, even without the headshell this thing is way too cool-looking, and various details like that bearing housing, motor and idler wheel are just too promising to pass it up. I ask the price, and quickly make the deal, getting it for the asking price of $30. It's worth that much to me, just to let it sit there so I can look at it, but I suspect it may sound very good, and will probably supplant my Collaro 456 as my vintage mono player of choice.
I later come home and look it up: the platter bearing and motor and some other parts on it are IDENTICAL to those on the 301; it's basically the slightly cheaper consumer version of the studio-oriented 301, and considered a very nice TT! The platter is slightly less massive, but not too inferior. Since the bearing is identical to the oil-bearing 301, as is the motor, one might even put a 301 platter on it, although I think I'll leave mine stock. The whole big platter is covered with rubber, as if the mat "flowed" around the sides, where the 301 has the strobe patterns. I've found conflicting comments on whether the idler wheel is identical or slightly different; when I get the chance, I'll carry it to a local dealer/friend who has some 301s around, and compare them more closely.
I've found that this model is "famously" used by some Jamaican/UK reggae-oriented deejay named Shaka or Jah Shakah, for whatever that is worth.
One reason is that the relatively massive tonearm resists resonance in the presence of very heavy bass sound. Not too important to me, since I haven't cranked skull-crushing bass levels since teenage years.
The original cartridge was a ceramic type, with a high output level and a good sound to it. The TT appears to be a bit of a "sleeper" but may have something of a small cult following. One is on ePay at $123 with five days to go; another has a starting bid of $499, one is for sale in Europe for 299 Euros, and one sold on Yahoo Japan recently for a whopping US$730. :scratch2: .... Those Japanese know a few things about Garrards. I'm thinking about the earlier conversation I had with the dealer about the 301s/401s (described above). The Japanese were the ones who tipped the world off to the potential hidden in the 301s/401s ... do they value this TT, too, or is it valued just for the parts it can supply to 301 owners? Anyway, I would have paid the thirty bucks I did just for the decorative value alone of this beauty, but now I think I got a great deal on what is probably a very nice TT, indeed! It won't replace my GT-2000 as King of the Hill, but I just may well be the Queen of the Mono corner!
Now I'll have to find the headshell and cartridge for it. I'm pretty sure I know who has one for sale (he has a number of old Garrard shells, and I remember seeing one among them that looked correct), and while it won't be cheap from him, given how little I paid for the rest of the TT, it should be worth it overall.
The cables are too old, too short (very probably not original) and need upgrading; I may use one of my carefully-rationed Petra cables (that AKer pdba helped me get! :thmbsp
on this, or I might even install RCA jacks for cable-rolling, esp. if I go with an original-type (high output) ceramic cart; if I use a magnetic cart, then I'll probably hard-wire the Petra cable.
I didn't recognize this TT at all when I was looking at it in situ, but after coming home and looking it up, I realized that I remember seeing it online before with a very different plinth: the thin, rounded metal version in white with red trim (first thumbnail below). The one I found is in a more conventional rectangular wooden plinth (more like the second thumbnail below), which looks original, too, and is in great shape. Some of these were apparently built into "suitcase" style players with tube amps inside, too. At this point, I'm thinking about plinth options, and may make a massive (slightly enlarged and mostly solid) version of the curved metal white one, perhaps with a slab of slate(?); curves that follow the top plate curves seems to be the most eye-catching design. I might modify it, extending it in the back to to allow a better (long) tonearm to be added as well... will think about it before deciding.
Yes, I know I'm supposed to be downsizing, and I AM doing that... but this thing was just too cool to pass up. I've never seen one of these in-the-flesh before, might never find another one, and I think it was terrific value-for-money (at least to me), so I have no regrets. I have plenty of stuff I'd be willing to get rid of, to make room for this old oddball TT. I'm getting rid of a LOT of other stuff, anyway. It'll work out in the end, somehow.
I found only a couple of mentions of this model in an AK search. Who else here has this? Comments, suggestions, and hints at what I should expect from it would be most welcome.
Some pics of this TT are here:
http://www.lab-audio.com/images/labaudio_garrad_4hf/viewer.swf
There is a very cool OLD (1931) song being played on one of these, here: http://www.video91.com/K5Auwt5_DCk/...n-i-take-my-sugar-to-tea-1931-Garrard-4HF.see Some better-sounding records being played on this TT are on YouTube and here: http://www.video91.com/4hf/page1.html
I'm attaching some more pics, blatantly stolen from that auction site and some other sites...
EDIT/UPDATE: I found the user's manual for this TT online, and downloaded it, for free!
A couple days ago, the dealer from whom I'm getting the Yamaha 101M told me it would be returned and available today (it was out on loan to his friend). It's return has been delayed several times, stretching to a couple of months, but this time it sounded more certain, so I went by today to find out...
The beast is mine!...
YES! It was there. I had the money for it sitting ready in reserve for some weeks, but dipped into it recently to pay for some other things. I explained this to the guy, and --under the circumstances, since I had waited so long already, he laughingly agreed to let me pay for it in installments, however I wished. Whew! It'll be coming home in a month or so from now, at the latest, but in any event it is "mine" and will be joining my main system.
I examined it closely: there are a few teensy-tiny scratches along the edges of the two handles in front, and a few on the left-channel volume knob, but they were only visible when I was shining my LED flashlight on them, and looking from close-up; from beyond a foot or two, or in normal lighting, they are invisible. Overall, this is in GREAT cosmetic shape, especially for something around twenty years old -- it's a beauty!
It's a 100V model. I recently learned that there were THREE of these sold in Hong Kong in years past, that were wired by Yamaha for 220V. I believe the two they sold into the German market were also 220V, but I haven't confirmed any others. While I'd prefer a 220V version, I think those are basically "unobtanium", and I'm more than happy to settle for a 100V version. I have a 7500 watt extreme isolation transformer that has 100V taps; that should be big enough to feed this hungry beast well enough, and I have a Japanese "audiophile grade" power strip I can wire up to that, to plug both channels of this into. Eventually I'll run a separate dedicated line for it, as well. This is the last "weak link" in my main system (except for cables, perhaps: I have "decent" cables, not "audiophile" cables, but that is not such a big deal to me, at least at this stage.)
Comparing GT TTs...
I noticed the dealer had a GT-750 hooked up to the system, and asked him how it sounded, and how it compared to the GT-2000. He said he'd never done a comparison, but he thought the GT-750 sounded pretty darned good. He offered to let me hear it, and proceeded to play a record.
I had to agree; it sounded quite good. No way for me to make a fair comparison with my GT-2000, because this was using a different cartridge (low-end Ortofon with a poor stylus), different gear chain altogether, in a very different listening environment. Still, the impression I had was that this was a very good TT by most standards, but still not quite up to the level of the GT-2000. There was a GT-750 platter lying around (from another TT), and I picked it up and examined it. It was nowhere near as heavy and solid as the GT-2000 platter, nor was it made the same way. Heavy and massive by ordinary standards, it was still clearly not in the same league of sheer mass as the GT-2000 platter.
***
While I was there, the same guy who was there recently with a $3000 Kondo cable came in again, this time with a decent but budget-level power cable he had bought off of eBay. (I get the feeling he likes to hang out there, and likes "cable rolling!" :yes:
) The 101M caught his eye, too, and we talked about it, and other things.A CD surprise...
Then a bit more elderly (sixties?) gentleman came in to audition some speakers, large late 40s or 50s ones (sorry, I didn't get the model number). He had brought in some CDs to play.demo them with. Interestingly, one of the ones he pulled out was a local Chinese CD that I bought new back in the 1980s, after my wife and I saw the particular artist in concert. The other guy immediately checked it, and saw it was black. Too bad, he explained: this CD was issued in three colors: the original was orange. Something happened to the masters from that (I think they were lost in a fire), and it was re-done and re-released in the black and the white versions. Collectors have churned the price of those original orange CDs up over US$300 each.
I came home and confirmed it...mine is the original and valuable orange version! Hanging on to my original locally-bought CDs from when I first started buying CDs has turned out to be a great investment: I've been discovering that a number of them have gone way up in value in recent years, just as this one has. (Of course, it's only meaningful if I sell, which I don't intend to, but it's still nice! )I spent some enjoyable time listening to the system while the elderly gentleman guy was evaluating the speakers, and discussing audio with him. He's been an audiophile (in the good sense of the word) for over thirty years, and has owned a LOT of gear, including original Marantz tube stuff and many other fine things. We discussed the strengths and weaknesses of the old speakers he was listening to, and he said he almost preferred their limited range to the more clinical and exact full-range modern speakers, even though with age he could no longer really hear the high-end treble. He valued musicality and a lack of listener fatigue more than complete realism, etc... It was an interesting listening session and discussions, and a very pleasant way to pass some time.
THE FIRST GARRARD:
At one point, before those guys came in, I had noticed a bit of a dusty-looking Garrard 401 peeking out from under some rumpled newspapers and plastic bags on the floor level of a big gear display rack along one wall. It looked like someone had just tossed it there like so much trash. I laughingly commented to the dealer that only in a shop like his would a TT that nice be left there that way!
He laughted, too, and told me that someone had brought it in for repair/renovation of the plinth. He said (quite correctly) that the papers and bags on top weren't hurting it and might be keeping further dust off it, but also admitted that the owner probably wouldn't like it if he saw his beloved TT sitting there that way.
He then commented that he didn't quite understand why the Garrard 301s and 401s fetched such high prices, when the GT-2000 actually sounds better than either of them, yet costs a lot less. We concluded it was probably partly nostalgia, partly reputation, and partly supply-and-demand that accounted for it (301s/401s are rarer, at least in Japan, where the price escalation was driven from over the years).
A few Lencos....
After I left that shop, I walked around some other audio shops. In one, I saw a Lenco L75 sitting next to a Lenco L70. I don't think I've ever seen an L70 before, so I made note of it and decided to look it up later. I was slightly tempted by it, because alongside a few L75s, I already have two other Lenco models (B52 and L85)... that evil "collector's urge" to further "complete the set" almost reared it's head, but then sanity prevailed and I walked away. Ten minutes later, I found another L75 in a different shop. The first one had been priced at $175, but this one was marked at $285. Both were in working condition; as far as I could see, the only difference was that the second one had had its plinth oiled. Again, I was tempted to snap up the "bargain" first one, but only for a few seconds. I have enough L75s, at least for now.
I'm not acquiring anything, unless it is REALLY "special" (to me). But soon enough, I find something "special" enough that I DO get it...
FIND OF THE NIGHT: THE SECOND GARRARD!
I then went over to look at some of the used-audio wholesale places. When I got to the place where I recently bought the Marantz 2325, I looked around and didn't see much at first. I was getting ready to leave, when I saw a horizontal/top-loading type cassette deck on top of a stack. I always check these, hoping to find a Marantz one, but again no luck
, at least as far as the Marantz idea goes --this was just an Akai 46 series one; I have at least one of those in storage to get rid of, as it is. Then I notice that it is sitting on top of something that looks like it might be interesting...I lift the Akai off, and sitting underneath it, find a very, very cool-looking vintage Garrard with a big, heavy platter reminiscent (in size, at least) of the one on the 301s! From the molded top plate and big, relatively massive tonearm, I figure this is a mid-fifties design. I decide within seconds that "I WANT THIS!" I pick it up and look at the mechanism underneath... it has a BIG platter bearing housing on the scale of that in the 301, a nice motor, and a large idler-wheel drive mechanism. It is a LOT like the 301, in various details, althouigh in some ways (tonearm wiring, for example) a bit simplified, and frankly, I think this thing looks MUCH prettier than any 301 ever did! It has all four speeds, and a very interesting-looking speed-control/adjustment system. Very nice build quality overall, for a fifties design. (I've since read that it was in production from 1955 to 1965, and was considered "the best" TT for at least part of that time period.) The model number on the badge on top reads "4HF (H)". It appears to be in excellent shape, except that the headshell and cartridge are missing. :sigh: (I suspect someone may have wanted to keep those for the sound, or perhaps to sell separately for more money? Or maybe the thing broke, and they threw it out?).
Still, even without the headshell this thing is way too cool-looking, and various details like that bearing housing, motor and idler wheel are just too promising to pass it up. I ask the price, and quickly make the deal, getting it for the asking price of $30. It's worth that much to me, just to let it sit there so I can look at it, but I suspect it may sound very good, and will probably supplant my Collaro 456 as my vintage mono player of choice.
I later come home and look it up: the platter bearing and motor and some other parts on it are IDENTICAL to those on the 301; it's basically the slightly cheaper consumer version of the studio-oriented 301, and considered a very nice TT!
The platter is slightly less massive, but not too inferior. Since the bearing is identical to the oil-bearing 301, as is the motor, one might even put a 301 platter on it, although I think I'll leave mine stock. The whole big platter is covered with rubber, as if the mat "flowed" around the sides, where the 301 has the strobe patterns. I've found conflicting comments on whether the idler wheel is identical or slightly different; when I get the chance, I'll carry it to a local dealer/friend who has some 301s around, and compare them more closely. I've found that this model is "famously" used by some Jamaican/UK reggae-oriented deejay named Shaka or Jah Shakah, for whatever that is worth.
One reason is that the relatively massive tonearm resists resonance in the presence of very heavy bass sound. Not too important to me, since I haven't cranked skull-crushing bass levels since teenage years. The original cartridge was a ceramic type, with a high output level and a good sound to it. The TT appears to be a bit of a "sleeper" but may have something of a small cult following. One is on ePay at $123 with five days to go; another has a starting bid of $499, one is for sale in Europe for 299 Euros, and one sold on Yahoo Japan recently for a whopping US$730. :scratch2: .... Those Japanese know a few things about Garrards. I'm thinking about the earlier conversation I had with the dealer about the 301s/401s (described above). The Japanese were the ones who tipped the world off to the potential hidden in the 301s/401s ... do they value this TT, too, or is it valued just for the parts it can supply to 301 owners?
Anyway, I would have paid the thirty bucks I did just for the decorative value alone of this beauty, but now I think I got a great deal on what is probably a very nice TT, indeed! It won't replace my GT-2000 as King of the Hill, but I just may well be the Queen of the Mono corner! Now I'll have to find the headshell and cartridge for it. I'm pretty sure I know who has one for sale (he has a number of old Garrard shells, and I remember seeing one among them that looked correct), and while it won't be cheap from him, given how little I paid for the rest of the TT, it should be worth it overall.
The cables are too old, too short (very probably not original) and need upgrading; I may use one of my carefully-rationed Petra cables (that AKer pdba helped me get! :thmbsp
on this, or I might even install RCA jacks for cable-rolling, esp. if I go with an original-type (high output) ceramic cart; if I use a magnetic cart, then I'll probably hard-wire the Petra cable. I didn't recognize this TT at all when I was looking at it in situ, but after coming home and looking it up, I realized that I remember seeing it online before with a very different plinth: the thin, rounded metal version in white with red trim (first thumbnail below). The one I found is in a more conventional rectangular wooden plinth (more like the second thumbnail below), which looks original, too, and is in great shape. Some of these were apparently built into "suitcase" style players with tube amps inside, too. At this point, I'm thinking about plinth options, and may make a massive (slightly enlarged and mostly solid) version of the curved metal white one, perhaps with a slab of slate(?); curves that follow the top plate curves seems to be the most eye-catching design. I might modify it, extending it in the back to to allow a better (long) tonearm to be added as well... will think about it before deciding.
Yes, I know I'm supposed to be downsizing, and I AM doing that... but this thing was just too cool to pass up. I've never seen one of these in-the-flesh before, might never find another one, and I think it was terrific value-for-money (at least to me), so I have no regrets. I have plenty of stuff I'd be willing to get rid of, to make room for this old oddball TT. I'm getting rid of a LOT of other stuff, anyway. It'll work out in the end, somehow.
I found only a couple of mentions of this model in an AK search. Who else here has this? Comments, suggestions, and hints at what I should expect from it would be most welcome.
Some pics of this TT are here:
http://www.lab-audio.com/images/labaudio_garrad_4hf/viewer.swf
There is a very cool OLD (1931) song being played on one of these, here: http://www.video91.com/K5Auwt5_DCk/...n-i-take-my-sugar-to-tea-1931-Garrard-4HF.see Some better-sounding records being played on this TT are on YouTube and here: http://www.video91.com/4hf/page1.html
I'm attaching some more pics, blatantly stolen from that auction site and some other sites...
EDIT/UPDATE: I found the user's manual for this TT online, and downloaded it, for free!
Attachments
Last edited:
