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Anti Skating for Shure SC35C

Luis.correia

Luis.correia

Well-Known Member
Using a shure SC35C, at 4.5g VTF, what anti skating should I use? Also the same number? My turntable goes just up to 4g.

Funny thing, is that it works well at 0g anti skating.

I read somewhere that with high VTF values, we could use a zero anti skating.

Anyone can clarify? Thanks
 
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Anti-skate adjustment is not an exact science so one can't say that it should definitely be "this much" or "that much". There are lots of excellent sounding turntables that don't even have any anti-skate compensation and they work just fine, but I don't think this is preferable. If the tracking force is adjusted correctly then the most significant role anti-skate plays is to extend stylus life by making for more even wear on each side of the stylus. In theory conical styli should need the most compensation and line contact styli should need the least. Having said that I don't worry about that too much and usually set my anti-skate at about half of my VTF setting, but this is for my turntables and yours could be different. In the end, examination of the wear pattern seen on worn out styli is the best way to make educated adjustment of ones anti-skate, and this is what I've done. Having a measure of anti-skate compensation applied is definitely a good thing but having a bit too little is preferable to having a bit too much, at least in my experience. If I were you I would start out setting it at about 2 1/2 or 3.
 
Can I leave it at zero? What will this do? More wear in the outher side of the stylus (has more force is being made in the direction of the outside of the record?)?
 
The best way is to use a "groove-less" record to set the anti-skate. Some test records have a groove-less spot for this purpose.
 
Luis.correia said:
Lenco l75. Linn Basik tonearm
Click to expand...

The Linn Basik is a medium mass arm, and its really lower end of medium in the 12 to 13.5 range of effective mass. The Shure M35SC is low compliance requiring 4 to 5 grams of tracking force. I would think you need an arm with an effective mass of >18 grams. This cartridge is for heavy arms, changers, DJ scratching type stuff. I think you have a bad match ... unless to have about 4 or 5 grams of mass to add to the headshell, and a big enough counterweight to support it. You don't want the counter weight all the way back on the arm, you want it close to the pivot.

As for antiskate. For 4 grams of VTF I would definitely use some antiskate, start with antiskate of 2 and listen. Listen with headphones and play some tracks at the end of the record. See what you like best between 2,3 and 4, and then fine tune.

The good news in your situation is that you can get the Shure N35X stylus. This is higher compliant and will match you arm way better. Still a spherical stylus but tracks up to 3 grams. Some people that run this cartridge use aftermarket EVG elliptical too.

I ordered a M35X to try on my medium mass arms just to see what all the buzz is about with these cartridges. In the end I expect they will sound good for certain older recordings but overall unrefined compared to what is out there today.

Good luck and let us know what you are hearing.

Bob
 
bobins08 said:
The Linn Basik is a medium mass arm, and its really lower end of medium in the 12 to 13.5 range of effective mass. The Shure M35SC is low compliance requiring 4 to 5 grams of tracking force. I would think you need an arm with an effective mass of >18 grams. This cartridge is for heavy arms, changers, DJ scratching type stuff. I think you have a bad match ... unless to have about 4 or 5 grams of mass to add to the headshell, and a big enough counterweight to support it. You don't want the counter weight all the way back on the arm, you want it close to the pivot.

As for antiskate. For 4 grams of VTF I would definitely use some antiskate, start with antiskate of 2 and listen. Listen with headphones and play some tracks at the end of the record. See what you like best between 2,3 and 4, and then fine tune.

The good news in your situation is that you can get the Shure N35X stylus. This is higher compliant and will match you arm way better. Still a spherical stylus but tracks up to 3 grams. Some people that run this cartridge use aftermarket EVG elliptical too.

I ordered a M35X to try on my medium mass arms just to see what all the buzz is about with these cartridges. In the end I expect they will sound good for certain older recordings but overall unrefined compared to what is out there today.

Good luck and let us know what you are hearing.

Bob
Click to expand...
I must be hard of ear :) the sc35c sounds good to me.

I have a m35x stylus. I agree it sounds better that the sc35c, but the difference is small
 
If the cartridge doesn't come with a recommended value then I'd defer to the turntable's manual for reference. Alternatively judge it by your record collection; start at 0 and slowly increase as-needed. There's of course matching to the tracking force, too, but that really isn't an option in your situation. :c
 
Luis.correia said:
Using a shure SC35C, at 4.5g VTF, what anti skating should I use? Also the same number? My turntable goes just up to 4g.

Funny thing, is that it works well at 0g anti skating.

I read somewhere that with high VTF values, we could use a zero anti skating.

Anyone can clarify? Thanks
Click to expand...
The appropriate antiskate level is dependent on a number of different factors. What matters is how the stylus performs, not what the antiskate dial setting is.
 
Everyone should a copy of Shure's tracking test LP. We had many copies at work, and when we retired the Wild microscope and TT testing station. I got one of the discs. Having a straight line tracking tone arm; I use the disc to set the tracking pressure. 2.3 grams. When I had a SME series III arm using either a V-15 III or Stanton 881 the bias setting dropped as a percentage with the tracking pressure increase. Trying to tack at less than 1 gram required over 100 % bias, tracking at 1.6 grams maybe 1 gram setting. I would imagine at your tracking pressure the 4 gram setting ought to be more than enough. We used 4 gram pressure for discos with Sl-1200 tables with at bias setting at max, to make it simple for the DJ's and never had an issue.
 
With a high compliance needle one can set the AS by eye, looking for a lateral offset of the needle and adjust until the needle is aligned with the cartridge body. With low compliance this technique fails because lateral offset is much harder to observe. For this, I would lower VTF until it mistracks, then set AS so it does so equally on both channels. Observe the settings and increase both accordingly until the mistracking ceases.
 
ripblade said:
With a high compliance needle one can set the AS by eye, looking for a lateral offset of the needle and adjust until the needle is aligned with the cartridge body. With low compliance this technique fails because lateral offset is much harder to observe. For this, I would lower VTF until it mistracks, then set AS so it does so equally on both channels. Observe the settings and increase both accordingly until the mistracking ceases.
Click to expand...
It tracks perfectly well at zero :)
 
bobins08 said:
The Linn Basik is a medium mass arm, and its really lower end of medium in the 12 to 13.5 range of effective mass. The Shure M35SC is low compliance requiring 4 to 5 grams of tracking force. I would think you need an arm with an effective mass of >18 grams. This cartridge is for heavy arms, changers, DJ scratching type stuff. I think you have a bad match ... unless to have about 4 or 5 grams of mass to add to the headshell, and a big enough counterweight to support it. You don't want the counter weight all the way back on the arm, you want it close to the pivot.

As for antiskate. For 4 grams of VTF I would definitely use some antiskate, start with antiskate of 2 and listen. Listen with headphones and play some tracks at the end of the record. See what you like best between 2,3 and 4, and then fine tune.

The good news in your situation is that you can get the Shure N35X stylus. This is higher compliant and will match you arm way better. Still a spherical stylus but tracks up to 3 grams. Some people that run this cartridge use aftermarket EVG elliptical too.

I ordered a M35X to try on my medium mass arms just to see what all the buzz is about with these cartridges. In the end I expect they will sound good for certain older recordings but overall unrefined compared to what is out there today.

Good luck and let us know what you are hearing.

Bob
Click to expand...

I have a 3.5g metal thing I can screw on the top of the tone arm. To add weight to the arm.

Already did it. The n35x is playing now. At 2g tracking force. Sounds better. More bass. More full sound :)

Of course the counterweight being the same, it's further back than it was. What does this influence?
 
Changed to the SC35C stylus. Playing the same track from miles Davis, round about midnight. The las track of the side to notice any inner groove distortion. Nothing. All is fine.

Sounds pleasant. But the n35x sounds better with more bass and more full sound.

Should I take the weight off when I change to my audio technica AT120eb?

How about the AT95e?

Thanks
 
Luis.correia said:
I have a 3.5g metal thing I can screw on the top of the tone arm. To add weight to the arm.

Already did it. The n35x is playing now. At 2g tracking force. Sounds better. More bass. More full sound :)

Of course the counterweight being the same, it's further back than it was. What does this influence?
Click to expand...

Nice .... I was going to ask if you were using the extra mass in your testing.

This pretty much bears out the compliance equation. The N35x should sound better on your arm than the n35sc. Your arm is low side of medium range so the added headshell mass improved it, the n35x probably likes about 16+ grams effective mass, the n35sc probably 20+ or even more.

As long as your counterweight is not hanging on the end of the arm you should be ok. Sometimes you need mass added to the cw to compensate for mass added to the headshell.

You should take the added mass off of the headshell for the AT carts, they match your arm without the added mass.

So in summary, use the added mass and the N35x with your Linn Basik arm. Experiment with VTF to optimize to your liking. You may even like 2.5 or 3 grams and this will move your CW closer to pivot too!

Enjoy!!!
 
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