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anyone been disappointed with their Crites upgrades?

Hello,

My brother and I did the crossover and tweeter upgrades on his LaScala's and I thought it smoothed them out a ton. His crossovers were from the early 70's and really looked like hell. By my calculations, 40+ years and countless moving and banging around had taken it's toll. He was tired of the sound and had already upgraded to a set of Dynaudio but just couldn't bring himself to sell his first real set of speakers. I turned him onto Crites and he gave him a call. After some time on the phone, he figured he would take a chance. We blew a Saturday and performed the upgrades.
We did an hour of listening before and several hours after the upgrades, the difference seemed quite noticeable to both of us. The mids were brought a bit forward and the crossovers seemed cut the brightness significantly. I see my brother fairly often and the Klipsch are typically playing now. He claims the sound improved a bit more after some break-in and he's back to listening to them on a daily basis.

I purchased a set of Belle's about 3 years ago and they had the Crites upgrades ... not sure about the diaphragms but I couldn't get them to sound right in my sound room (20 X 22). The mids were somewhat "out of whack" and it seemed to me to be crossover related. I checked the model, and they were the correct Crites replacements. They just didnt have a good vocal presentation, at least not for rock music. I ended up selling the Belles but through that process, I discovered that an old Dynaco ST-70 mated up with them almost perfectly. Klipsch are very tricky speakers to get right, especially the Heritage series. When you do it's magical. I always chuckle to myself when I get on a thread were folks are critical of them because I have been there - many times. Once you hear a set of Klipsch that are dialed in ... you never forget it.

I was just given a trashed set of Heresies (my 4th pair over the years) that were headed to Goodwill; I intervened. I had nothing to loose, so I opened them up last Saturday. The insides look mint, it's the cleanest set I have ever seen. I am stripping the finish and will likely pick up a set of Crites crossovers, rewire and dampen the box. Frankenstein? maybe but I have found some tricks over the years that seem to improve the overall sound of certain Klipsch models. I kept the ST-70 amp and I'm getting excited. I will definitely A/B them with the original setup and then do the treatments to see what (if any) improvements were made.


I agree with Frank ... there is no single magic bullet. You need to be the the right room and proper placement is critical. To this I would add, they are amp dependent - the right components can be huge. I like the vintage tube/Klipsch combo.
 
"I agree with Frank ... there is no single magic bullet. You need to be the the right room and proper placement is critical. To this I would add, they are amp dependent - the right components can be huge. I like the vintage tube/Klipsch combo."

I'm waiting on a Sansui 1000a tube receiver to come back from a cleaning/recapping and see how it sounds with KLF-30s. I'm not sure what to make of my purchase yet. Perhaps I was expecting too much of them, or perhaps they just don't pair with my Sansui 9090db all that well. Or maybe I just need to let them grow on me. Don't get me wrong, they sound good. But I was expecting to shake the very pillars of heaven after all I've been told about them. I can't decide if they're a marked improvement over the Pioneers I've been listening to. Which isn't necessarily a slight of the KLFs (I really like the Pioneers). I just keep expecting to bring in a monster set of klipschs and blow the Pioneers out of the water (and it hasn't happened for me yet). I do like them better than the Lascalas I brought in my last attempt to upgrade my speakers. I might see how they match up with my SX-1250 (that I've been trying to trade for some Cornwalls).
 
I ended up selling the Belle's. I have some regrets but lately, I mostly find myself listening to rock and within rock, I seem to spend a lot of time with classic rock (Stones/Floyd/Beatles/F Mac/Clapton/ABB) I spin Steely Dan and some jam band stuff like the Dead and Govt Mule. To me; jazz, funk and vocalists seem to be where the Klipsch shine. From all I have read, many of the Heritage fans like classical music and I have read Klipsch is particularly well fit for that. That being said, the last two hours I spent with the Belles were amazing. All we switched out was the amp (Dynaco ST-70) and things just seemed to fit together. I had that experience with the same Belles and a Carver ZR-1000 of all things. I switched to a completely rebuilt Carver M-500t and it seemed to loose a little bit of it's shine. I was not happy with running a PA amp with the Belles so I kept swapping. Placement was huge and my converted garage (listening space) was just a little too small for the Belles. If I positioned myself towards the very back wall - it hit a sweet spot. That just didnt work for me, so I ended up finding a set of horn loaded JBL studio monitors that worked better in my space. The Klipsch sat idle for 4-5 months, so I sold them to a fellow AKer. The free Heresies I just inherited, are stripped and will be painted jet black. I'm going to use the Dynaco amp and set them up in the garage. Since they are free and rather beat - I am going to heavily modify them. I have never been real happy with Heresies but I'm not sure I found that magic bullet. I'm going to dampen the cabinet and the horns, change the crossovers and possibly swap out the tweeters. We will see how far down the rabbit hole I go. I'm not into them for anything so I feel like I have some room to play. I might even build some stands. I dont expect a lot, so there isnt much room for disappointment. The Belles cost me a pretty pennie, so I was really hoping to get to the next level. I seem to fit the soft dome A/D/S style speaker better than horns. Probably my hearing is starting a fade a bit and the horn sound just doesnt appeal to me, like it used to. I am on the hunt for a mint set of ADS 990's or 1530's. They are so damn expensive these days, it very well may never happen. AR9's are also a possibility but they are rare in the Pacific Northwest.

I'm interested in you thoughts after you swap to the Sansui 1000a and SX-1250. I encourage you to move the speakers around a bit. The KLF-30 gets very high marks, there must be a combo that makes them sing.

What output tubes is the Sansui running? 6L6 or 7591? Should be able to make them dance ...
 
I've been very hsppy with the Crites Ti diaphragms in my KG4s. I think they're smoother and more extended than the OEM polyamides. That said, I didn't do the crossovers with Crites, but rather, I replaced the original electrolytic capacitors. They presently reside in my vintage system and are driven by a Pioneer SX-1250. Also, my little HK PM645 integrated amp was excellent with the KG4s when I had them at my office.

This describes my experience almost exactly. Except I have 4.2's. I did my own caps first (improved the upper end somewhat), then did the diaphragms, which had a much greater effect on the sound than the caps had. To me it sounded much more extended in the upper end ('air' was there that had not been) and it tamed the harsh or shrill sound of electric guitars and vocals. Whether you like it depends on your own hearing as well as the room and your other gear. Mine sounded the best I have ever heard them on someone else's 40W class A solid state homebuilt Pass amp.
 
I have often wondered how much of the improvement owners hear is due to simply replacing old crossover caps. Old caps get out of spec and replacing them has made an obvious change (for the better, imo) in all my vintage speakers, including the Khorns. I have read about a few listeners who claim they prefer the sound of aged caps, which suggests to me that they wouldn't like the speakers when they were new. In every case of my vintage speaker experience, I noticed that one speaker in a pair was brighter than the other - ie, had higher SPL HF output - due to caps aging differently. Replacing caps restored HF and corrected the imbalance in every case. Point being, when you replace entire crossovers and diaphragms all at once, it is hard to match improvement to its cause. I do not claim to know whether Ti diaphragms make a big difference, just that I know caps do, or can.

And with Fortes, adding a brace yields significant improvement. I do also know that.
 
I've heard tons of people who rave about how Bob Crites' titanium upgrades have taken their Klipsch gear to new levels. I've never heard upgraded gear. But I've also heard one guy (a guy I personally know and trust) say that he witnessed an upgrade take place live and everyone quietly concurred that the "before" was noticeably better than the after (when the owner of the "upgraded" gear wasn't privy to their conversations).

Yes I agree with your buddy, The thing I like about Bob C.is that he tells it like it is, not that they will sound better just diff..and in what ways.

Best-

Boozehound
 
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My KLF-30'S have the Crites titanium tweeter diaphrams, Crites crossovers and the A-55G midrange drivers. Fricken awesome.

At first, the titanium tweeter diaphrams were a little hot. A little extra sizzle on the highs but clear and detailed. A little EQ in the digtal domain rolling off the upper frequencies is all it took.
 
I thought about the Crites Ti upgrade, but haven't pulled the trigger because some have said these have shrill highs and I fear that these will sound that way to my ears ( I hate shrillness). I'll have to find someone local who's done it and listen to theirs.
I was just given a trashed set of Heresies (my 4th pair over the years) that were headed to Goodwill; I intervened
4th pair? Why doesn't this ever happen to me?
 
I thought about the Crites Ti upgrade, but haven't pulled the trigger because some have said these have shrill highs and I fear that these will sound that way to my ears ( I hate shrillness). I'll have to find someone local who's done it and listen to theirs.
My Crites Ti diaphragm upgrades we're still shrill, to the point I had to unload them. Another AKer here has said the shrillness is actually from the mids. Food for thought, but mine were gone long before I saw that post, so I'll never know. I certainly don't miss them, though.
 
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"I'm interested in you thoughts after you swap to the Sansui 1000a and SX-1250. I encourage you to move the speakers around a bit. The KLF-30 gets very high marks, there must be a combo that makes them sing.

What output tubes is the Sansui running? 6L6 or 7591? Should be able to make them dance "...[/QUOTE]

Well, I still prefer the Sansui 9090db. The Pioneer seems edgier, and so beefy that I can barely turn it up. To compound my listening issues, my air conditioner went out a couple of days ago, and I'm living with open windows and fans. So I'm reluctant to really crank up my system right now, as I have a good relationship (as far as I know) with my neighbors. I also can't wait to hear the 1000a though, and plan on giving a full report. I think it uses the 7591.

And the shape of my living room along with the placement of my furniture/tv & fireplace inhibits ideal speaker placement. The living room is long and rectangular with windows at each end, high ceilings & hardwood floors. So the best place would be against one wall in front of my sofa, but there's a fireplace that is inset, so the TV/Stereo are off center so if I want to flank the stereo with the speakers, one speaker is 3 ft closer to the couch, or one speaker is pulled 3 feet out in to the room.
 
I've heard tons of people who rave about how Bob Crites' titanium upgrades have taken their Klipsch gear to new levels. I've never heard upgraded gear. But I've also heard one guy (a guy I personally know and trust) say that he witnessed an upgrade take place live and everyone quietly concurred that the "before" was noticeably better than the after (when the owner of the "upgraded" gear wasn't privy to their conversations).

It seems that I'd upgrade one speaker and listen a/b with the other stock speaker (I'm sure someone out there has done this). If so, how did they compare?
While I am I haven't personally heard any of it, it seems to be very subjective. Speakers take time to break-in, so perhaps some of the issues will go away after the break=in period. What really matters is that the speaker's owner is happy with the upgrades. :)
 
I was just given a trashed set of Heresies (my 4th pair over the years) that were headed to Goodwill; I intervened. I had nothing to loose, so I opened them up last Saturday. The insides look mint, it's the cleanest set I have ever seen. I am stripping the finish and will likely pick up a set of Crites crossovers, rewire and

The heresy is a shouty little devil that will hurt your eardrums. The best upgrade for them is a pair of Cornwalls.
 
Replacing caps in a crossover is always a good thing after a decade or so. The T-35 tweeter was known to be less linear towards the end of production cycle rolling off the highs a bit. Personally I don't like supper flat sound systems. They tend to be irritating and fatiguing. So I wouldn't upgrade diaphragms unless there is a failure and original diaphragms are no longer available. Then don't be afraid to turn the treble down 4 to 6 dn at 20 kHz restore the previous balance. Personally I prefer the sound of the Crites midrange on Cornwalls but would tone it down on the crossover a few db.
 
I've heard tons of people who rave about how Bob Crites' titanium upgrades have taken their Klipsch gear to new levels. I've never heard upgraded gear. But I've also heard one guy (a guy I personally know and trust) say that he witnessed an upgrade take place live and everyone quietly concurred that the "before" was noticeably better than the after (when the owner of the "upgraded" gear wasn't privy to their conversations).

It seems that I'd upgrade one speaker and listen a/b with the other stock speaker (I'm sure someone out there has done this). If so, how did they compare?

I’d have to say that I agree with the guy you know and trust. I just did the AK-3 upgrade and “shrill” is the term that comes to mind. I really wish I would’ve done just one speaker and compared the original to the AK-3. But I was on a roll and figured just about everyone thinks the upgrade is worth it. Absolutely no other changes in any way (same amp, location, speaker cables, source material). I really don’t want to chase the rabbit (tube amp, wooden horn, etc) down the $$$ hole to find musical bliss again. I’ll have plenty of time this week to check for the 12th time (the shrill factor) as I listen to music when working from home. Not sounding good at the moment....
 
Why would anyone pay market price for speakers and then want to spend more money changing them to something else? I bought my Forte II's because i like how they were built to be,not changing them to something else. If and when something happens to where caps or tweets or something else needs rehabing,then i will have it done the way its designed to be. Why change something into something it was'nt built to be... But something thats suits you to begin with.
 
In my case, the speakers were given to me so I didn’t pay “market price”. Secondly, I will always look to improve whatever I own because I enjoy it. Since the crossovers were original and the cables had oxidized, and it seemed that the Crites x-o had a VERY high satisfaction rate (I’ve been considering this for about 5 years), I thought it was worth a shot. After all, the designer likely had to make cost (compromise) decisions and I generally don’t think it’s a requirement to follow that same constraint blindly. It didn’t work this time around and I thought I would share it. By analogy, my (now departed) ‘67 truck had drum brakes up front. There was no way I wasn’t going to swap out for disc brakes.

PS- I’ve made zero modifications that would prevent the complete reversal of my x-o (apparent downgrade).
 
Why would anyone pay market price for speakers and then want to spend more money changing them to something else? I bought my Forte II's because i like how they were built to be,not changing them to something else. If and when something happens to where caps or tweets or something else needs rehabing,then i will have it done the way its designed to be. Why change something into something it was'nt built to be... But something thats suits you to begin with.

In my case, the speakers were given to me so I didn’t pay “market price”. Secondly, I will always look to improve whatever I own because I enjoy it. Since the crossovers were original and the cables had oxidized, and it seemed that the Crites x-o had a VERY high satisfaction rate (I’ve been considering this for about 5 years), I thought it was worth a shot. After all, the designer likely had to make cost (compromise) decisions and I generally don’t think it’s a requirement to follow that same constraint blindly. It didn’t work this time around and I thought I would share it. By analogy, my (now departed) ‘67 truck had drum brakes up front. There was no way I wasn’t going to swap out for disc brakes.

PS- I’ve made zero modifications that would prevent the complete reversal of my x-o (apparent downgrade).

As a matter of fact, Fortes (both 1 and 2) benefit from a front to back internal brace to reduce front-baffle resonance. Klipsch was already spending more than intended on construction, so to maintain profit at the speaker's intro price of $1100/pair, did not add the brace. Makes more difference than many realize, until they hear it..

I should add that I don't know this first-hand, but it was told us at the time by a sales-rep for the distributer who serviced our store. He was not a Klipsch employee, but he certainly wanted us selling them, so I believed that he thought it true, anyway.
 
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I replaced my stock tweeter diaphragms with the Bob Crites Titanium diaphragms Upgrades today for my KLIPSCH CHORUS II...and WOW! what a difference! I was very tempted to put them up on Craigslist for sale for the last 4 years until now, I'm 25 year veteran Semi-truck driver with a little bit of hearing loss and these speakers were still harsh, my rig consists a of Carver C1 preamp and a Carver M 1.5t amplifier, I
tried taming these beasts with my AUDIO CONTROLL C101 EQ , and no dice they were still screaming at me but these diaphragms done the trick! I too was skeptical of the uprgrades but now I'm glad I had pulled the trigger and bought them, I may upgrade the mid range diaphragms and see if theres further improvement...Good luck
 
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