anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

[wualta]

Comparing the Z to the .9 involves taking a look at the capacitive ("C") loading they're seeing. The Z is sensitive to it (because of its high inductance) and will brighten up as a typical high C-load shoves the high frequency peak down into the upper two octaves as a broad hump; the low-inductance .9 is much less sensitive. Empire claimed it to be virtually insensitive.

 

[multirock]

First, here's the 999/X info, in German, no less (click to enlarge):
View attachment 3827852
Compared to the specifications for the body of your 999/X, the 90 EE/X, the 909/X (NOT the 909/X Improved!), the 909 E/X, the 999 E/X, the 999 PE/X, the 999 SE/X, and the 999 TE/X are exactly the same. The 999 VE/X and 1000 ZE/X bodies differ only very slightly, as Free Speaker said. In other words, the cartridge model is determined solely by which stylus is fitted. Think of it as one cartridge body, many styli; therefore many "models".

I suggest trying your 1000 ZE/X stylus in that 999/X body to see if the pops are still present. If they are, it could be one of a handful or reasons: static buildup and discharge, damaged rubber suspension, loose fit of the stylus in the cartridge body, et cetera, and I hope someone who's had the same problem will provide you with some helpful information!

Here's the entire 1971 model lineup:
View attachment 3827866

Thanks a lot for this information! It's great to know that all these cartridges has the same -or almost the same- bodies.
I think the POPS with the 1000ZE/X are due an internal malfunction... It happens with two different stylus, an only with this cartridge.

Regarding to the stylus for the 999/X, I have the chance to buy two aftermarket stylus: Tonar 332-DE (for the 90EE/X, 909E/X, and 999E/X cartridges), and Tonar 333-DE for the 1000ZE/X. Anyone has experience with these? Which one do you think could be a better match for the 999/X cartridges?
Also, I can buy an original Empire S999 E/X stylus, which I think it’s my primary choice.

 

[Discofan]

I have an EDR 9 and a 2000Z and slightly prefer the 2000Z...it seems to have more presence, but the EDR 9 probably plumbs a little more detail.

I am happy with both.

JICO made a great 2000Z gold stylus replacement that isn't offered any more. If you happen upon one, it is wort picking up.

Not too long ago DaCapo had for sale original S2000Z stylus.

 

[Discofan]

Cantilever length comparison.

 

[wualta]

I think the POPS with the 1000ZE/X are due an internal malfunction... It happens with two different stylus, an only with this cartridge.

That's unfortunate. The only cause I can think of immediately is a coil inside the body that's come loose. If you shake the cartridge, can you hear something rattle?

Also, I can buy an original Empire S999 E/X stylus, which I think it’s my primary choice.

My experience with recently-made aftermarket styli, no matter how well their styli intended for other brands of cartridges perform, is that when it comes to Empire, the manufacturers have nearly all lost the ability for some reason.
I haven't knowingly tried Tonar's styli, so they may be good. Given the opportunity, I'd buy an original Empire-made stylus, even if it was more expensive. But I hope we'll hear from others who've tried the Tonars. As always, try to buy from sellers with a reputation for good customer service.

 

[multirock]

Today I received the 999/X cartridge. I tested with my stylus, and there are no pops at all. So I can be sure that the 1000ZE/XE has some internal issue...
The cartridge came with an original Empire stylus (brown), which it's a hand polished spherical (same as nude conical??). Unfortunately it's worn. I'm sharing some images with you:

 

[Enophile]

I think I should invent a stylus with ratchets that can be clicked and rotated in 45 degree increments and get four times the wear life!

 

[russdall]

Empire claimed it to be virtually insensitive.

Well how virtually insensitive is that ? By Golly.......

 

[wualta]

Well how virtually insensitive is that ? By Golly.......

Not entirely insensitive-- Grado deserves that honorific-- but reasonably so, just like the 4000D family (and early 66 family) already was. So nothing new, but worth mentioning in the more-enlightened age that came at the end of the '70s, when we suddenly got all excited by C loading and SRA and VTA and Baerwald and...

 

[Discofan]

SRA or VTA yes. Because it depends directly on the position of the cutter. But protractors like Baerwald is a snake oil.

 

[gary7]

Got a Empire 2000Z on a Dual 1219 I just got up running.

 

[gary7]

Cantilever length comparison.

Also the cantilever thickness.

 

[Iamstubbb]

I've done my honest best to find a satisfactory answer of one of the 586 pages of this thread. I apologize if this is already buried in here somewhere. I restored a roughly treated Technics SLD-1 that came with 2000 E/III cartridge. The turntable is now a solid performer, and I cleaned up the cartridge as well as I could, mounted it on a new head shell properly adjusted, at least for tracking. It sounded meh in comparison to a ATVM95-ML, about the same but a bit rougher than an Ortofon OS (80's version of the OM) with a new OM10 stylus, and better than an AT VS200 with a new JICO AT70 conical stylus. I now realize I had it on 2.0 g VTF, probably too much. However, I don't know the history of the stylus and would like to replace it. On this thread I've learned that the E/III had a nude elliptical at .2 x .7 mil. I can find three options. JICO nude elliptical (no dimensions), the LPGear ViVid Line .3 x .7 bonded elliptical, and the standard LPGear .3 x .7 bonded elliptical. I'm leaning toward the JICO because it is a nude diamond, as the original is. Price is comparable to the ViVid Line, but the standard bonded looks pretty attractive pricewise. I'd like the cartridge to sound as good as it can and be a "change of pace" cartridge for my vintage setup.

Any opinions or past experience with these?

JICO S2000E/III
LPGear S2000VL/III ViVid Line
LPGear Empire 2000 E/III

 

[doctor fuse]

I've done my honest best to find a satisfactory answer of one of the 586 pages of this thread. I apologize if this is already buried in here somewhere. I restored a roughly treated Technics SLD-1 that came with 2000 E/III cartridge. The turntable is now a solid performer, and I cleaned up the cartridge as well as I could, mounted it on a new head shell properly adjusted, at least for tracking. It sounded meh in comparison to a ATVM95-ML, about the same but a bit rougher than an Ortofon OS (80's version of the OM) with a new OM10 stylus, and better than an AT VS200 with a new JICO AT70 conical stylus. I now realize I had it on 2.0 g VTF, probably too much. However, I don't know the history of the stylus and would like to replace it. On this thread I've learned that the E/III had a nude elliptical at .2 x .7 mil. I can find three options. JICO nude elliptical (no dimensions), the LPGear ViVid Line .3 x .7 bonded elliptical, and the standard LPGear .3 x .7 bonded elliptical. I'm leaning toward the JICO because it is a nude diamond, as the original is. Price is comparable to the ViVid Line, but the standard bonded looks pretty attractive pricewise. I'd like the cartridge to sound as good as it can and be a "change of pace" cartridge for my vintage setup.

Any opinions or past experience with these?

JICO S2000E/III
LPGear S2000VL/III ViVid Line
LPGear Empire 2000 E/III

I've never heard the JICO but the VividLine was marginally better than a generic bonded elliptical when I had a 2000E/II. I would go for the JICO over the VividLine if the prices are close, or just go for the standard elliptical.

 

[Iamstubbb]

I've never heard the JICO but the VividLine was marginally better than a generic bonded elliptical when I had a 2000E/II. I would go for the JICO over the VividLine if the prices are close, or just go for the standard elliptical.

There is a $60 difference between the bonded elliptical and the nude JICO/ViVid, which are the same price. My system is good enough to reveal differences between the above-mentioned cartridges up through a B&O MMC2 on an RX2 turntable so it may be worthwhile.

I picked up the SLD-1 out of nostalgia as it was my first turntable back in the day. Now it's gotten me into this vintage cartridge mess!

 

[wualta]

Could we have a look at your 2000E/III stylus? It should sound, at least in some ways, better than a VM95ML. If the cartridge wasn't dragging on the record surface at 2g (nominal VTF is 1g) or close to it, that could be a clue. Since the turntable was in rough shape when you got it, it's possible the cartridge/stylus was treated the same way. It may or may not be salvageable, but it's worth a try. Having said that, I'm a believer in line-contact diamonds, especially if your LP collection includes used copies.

 

[doctor fuse]

There is a $60 difference between the bonded elliptical and the nude JICO/ViVid, which are the same price. My system is good enough to reveal differences between the above-mentioned cartridges up through a B&O MMC2 on an RX2 turntable so it may be worthwhile.

I picked up the SLD-1 out of nostalgia as it was my first turntable back in the day. Now it's gotten me into this vintage cartridge mess!

Go for the JICO then!

 

[Iamstubbb]

Could we have a look at your 2000E/III stylus? It should sound, at least in some ways, better than a VM95ML. If the cartridge wasn't dragging on the record surface at 2g (nominal VTF is 1g) or close to it, that could be a clue. Since the turntable was in rough shape when you got it, it's possible the cartridge/stylus was treated the same way. It may or may not be salvageable, but it's worth a try. Having said that, I'm a believer in line-contact diamonds, especially if your LP collection includes used copies.

I'll get some photos. I took a few with my phone but they didn't come out well. It was coated with dirt and I gave it a cleaning and I'm sure it needs a bit more. I'll try with some magnification and better lighting and post. Here is a teaser:

 

[wualta]

Aha, the "stairstep" generic, which was deemed a worthy replacement. Thanks for the photo. I'll rummage through the old posts to find out who it was that tried it and liked it.

It was stalwart member of this thread desertrat748; the stylus came from the eBay vendor called Rivertone; desertrat first described it in positive terms in a post on August 17, 2022. He tried it in a 66-family body and a 2000E/I,II,III body and preferred the sound in the 66. The color of his stylus looks to be the same pale clear purple as in your photo. The same (or very similar) stylus was marketed by the distributor Tonar for the 2000E/I,II,III family.

 

[Iamstubbb]

Aha, the "stairstep" generic, which was deemed a worthy replacement. Thanks for the photo. I'll rummage through the old posts to find out who it was that tried it and liked it.

It was stalwart member of this thread desertrat748; the stylus came from the eBay vendor called Rivertone; desertrat first described it in positive terms in a post on August 17, 2022. He tried it in a 66-family body and a 2000E/I,II,III body and preferred the sound in the 66. The color of his stylus looks to be the same pale clear purple as in your photo. The same (or very similar) stylus was marketed by the distributor Tonar for the 2000E/I,II,III family.

I owe you a beverage. I'll Venmo you. I'm @Mark-Lawson-6

Here are the best shots I could come up with on a Saturday night that involved shots of another kind. It appears to be a bonded Elliptical, but in decent shape although hard to tell if there are any minor wear issues. It needed more cleaning as well, but a little more solvent and a gentle stylus brush greatly improved its appearance.

The head shell I mounted this on is a Technics OEM purchased from Rivertone. I've purchased a few because I've run the cartridges mentioned above, which came attached to the junker SL-D's I've restored on head shells with cracked/damaged ring washers, plus I've added the VM95-ML and a Grado M+E for my stereo and mono listening pleasure.

Now that it is cleaner I'll give it a fair comparison to the VM95-ML at proper VTF. But going for the JICO might be the respectful course of action to enable the best intended performance of the original.

BTW that is a very fat cantilever!

PS-Looks like I need to brush it a bit more to get rid of that lingering fuzz. Maybe it was stored in a knitted sweater or something.