Anyone using the B&C DCM50’s in Klipschorn’s, and are you happy as compared to the original K-55-V mid drivers?

[Dr Morbius]

Hi, I just installed the Fantastic Fastrac 402 horns in my Klipschorn’s and am looking to go with the 2 inch B&C DCM50 mid drivers, just wondered if anyone else went that route and how did it compare with the original K-55V’s that came with the K-horns?

 

[Deang]

It’s a very popular modification. It’s hard to imagine any 1” or smaller compression driver competing with it at live listening levels.

 

[Audible Nectar]

That one or the BMS 4592nd-mid seems to be the ticket. I went with the BMS in my Belle builds (Elliptrac 400) because I had heard it before and it sorta took the guesswork out of it, although I did have something of a curiosity as to how the B&C sounded. That would have been another $1100 to sample (as drivers that pricey aren't usually just sitting around available for loan), and as the BMS is quite good didn't pursue that any further. There are LOTS of good comments regarding both in this type of application. In a passive network the B&C actually has some advantage as the BMS has a bit of a 3khz kick, and the B&C reviews mention "a very expressive and impressive driver and presentation". They seem in a similar league.....albeit some notable construction differences (poly vs paper diaphragm primarily).

Both are going to be an upgrade over the 55s, brings them into a bigger league, although I can also say that the 55s are pretty good in their own right. A lot of the 1 to 2" upgrade is subtle, but there's also times that they really shine - as Dean says, particularly at live levels. Strings/horns/natural instruments really benefit with the 2" upgrade.

What are using for crossover?

 

[Dr Morbius]

Fo crossovers I’m using ALK’s 3 piece steep slope which sounds pretty good, only other upgrade would be I believe the B&C DCM50’s………

 

[Audible Nectar]

I'm not experienced with that specific crossover (I've seen experiments with some versions though) but an pretty sure that has the multistep autoformer (which allows for tap adjustments to attenuate the midrange) and as such would allow for the use of the B&C. The B&C is actually pretty close in terms of "proper tap level adjustment" to the 55 series drivers; the B&C is 108db sensitivity which is closer to the 55 series than the BMS is, which is 118db sensitivity and has the user really "clawing back" the output.

I've seen a bunch of people using ALK steep slope crossovers on DIY audio too, using the B&C DCM50 and the BMS, although I'm not as well versed in exactly what the setting are going to end up being, etc.....but that should be a "go" as "most" actually are suggested to go to Al's steep slope crossovers for use with these two inch drivers, who like to live on the high side of the power range. They are more typical than my setup (lower order slope universal) as many who go 2" are doing it for live level output in larger rooms where the steeper slope is better for that use.

So without having actually fiddled with your XO specifically, based on the months of reading I did on this topic, I'm pretty sure you're in the right place, bordering on an ideal candidate for such an upgrade as those ALKs are said to be ideal for that purpose.

ALK seemed to like the B&C too, he did run a bunch of experiments some years ago and really seemed to like....

 

[FastlaneDave]

Fo crossovers I’m using ALK’s 3 piece steep slope which sounds pretty good, only other upgrade would be I believe the B&C DCM50’s………

Yes, the B&C DCM50 is a great driver and would be an excellent match with the ALK AP12 or ES-series crossovers.

I also just ordered a Faital Pro HMF200 for testing. My intention is to try it with the ALK CSW450, which uses 2nd/2nd/3rd-order slopes at 450 Hz and 6,000 Hz. Looking at the characteristics of the driver and crossover, they almost seem made for each other. I think it could be a really nice combination. I should have some actual test results and more information next week.

 

[Dr Morbius]

Yes, the B&C DCM50 is a great driver and would be an excellent match with the ALK AP12 or ES-series crossovers.

I also just ordered a Faital Pro HMF200 for testing. My intention is to try it with the ALK CSW450, which uses 2nd/2nd/3rd-order slopes at 450 Hz and 6,000 Hz. Looking at the characteristics of the driver and crossover, they almost seem made for each other. I think it could be a really nice combination. I should have some actual test results and more information next week.

I’m looking forward to your tests Dave, very interested in your findings. I recently came across a 2 inch driver I never heard of - the Lase 4599 - 16 ohm 2 inch driver that goes for $299 each, an excellent deal if it turns out to be good! Unfortunately I can’t find any information on them, maybe they’re new? Looks like they’re sold through ZXPC, the speaker parts company.

 

[Dr Morbius]

Never mind about the Lase 4599 - tinny sound with too much distortion………….not for me!

 

[mboxler]

@FastlaneDave was kind enough to send me a FT402 to test. Very impressive 3D printed horn. To test a CDX1-3055, I had to print a 2" to 1.4" adapter. I took a raw measurement of my KHorn bass bin and the CDX1-3055/FT402. I then simulated a two-way, second order crossover and eventually arrived at this...



The CDX1-3055 barely makes it to 400hz, so I altered the K33E filter to push it out a little further. I plan to build and test a real crossover once I find the parts. Looks promising.

I finally dragged my La Scala from the garage to my "lab", so I'll testing this combo on that as well.

 

[FastlaneDave]

Never mind about the Lase 4599 - tinny sound with too much distortion………….not for me!

I received the Faital Pro HMF-200 and plan to run some tests later today. I’ll compare it directly with the PRV D2200PH, which has been an impressive performer for the price.

The HMF-200 is specified for a 450 Hz minimum crossover with a 12 dB/octave or steeper high-pass filter, and I already have a crossover in the works specifically for it. That should make it an interesting candidate for much of the Klipsch Heritage series when paired with a horn large enough to properly load the driver.

What I’m most interested in is how it compares in smoothness and sound quality, and I’m particularly curious about the paper diaphragm. It costs considerably more than the PRV, but it is also designed for substantially lower-frequency operation. I’ll get it on the test horn and see what the measurements show, then give it a listen.

 

[FastlaneDave]

I spent some time comparing the PRV Audio D2200PH and FaitalPRO HMF200 on the FastTrack 402.

Based on the measurements, my conclusion is that the HMF200 is the better choice for applications that need to cross in the 400 Hz range. It maintains a smoother response through the lower end and across the usable band. For Klipsch applications where getting down into the 400–450 Hz range matters, the HMF200 would be my choice.

The D2200PH is still a very good value and certainly has its place. Based on my testing, I would consider it suitable from about 500 Hz and up, with 600 Hz and above being an especially comfortable application for it. I just wouldn’t choose it over the HMF200 when I specifically needed solid performance around 400 Hz.

Subjectively, I also find the HMF200 to be the smoother-sounding driver overall.

I’ve included photos of both drivers and their throat/phase-plug arrangements along with the measurements for comparison.

Overall, I think both drivers represent good options depending on the application. For 500–600 Hz and above, the D2200PH remains a strong budget choice. For applications requiring a 400–450 Hz crossover, the HMF200 is the clear winner for me.

 

[Dr Morbius]

Dave, now all you have to test the B&C DCM50 vs the Faital Pro HMF200…………….! ….I’m glad you’re using your 402 horn - it’s magnificent.
PS. I believe AL K. used the B&C DCM50 and the Faital drivers in his testing, but I can’t remember which he preferred, if any.

Steve

 

[FastlaneDave]

Thanks, Steve — I appreciate the compliment on the 402.

There has actually been quite a bit of testing done with the B&C DCM50, including work by ALK Engineering and a few other sources I trust. For a true 400 Hz application, the DCM50 is still one of my first choices, along with the BMS 4592 mid. Both are specifically suited to operating that low.

The HMF200 is a fantastic driver, and I’ve been extremely impressed with it, but it is a somewhat different design. It uses a smaller diaphragm/voice coil assembly and is officially rated for a 450 Hz minimum crossover rather than 400 Hz. On a horn that maintains good loading down into the 400 Hz region, and at sensible power levels, I think it may work very well at 400 Hz.