• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

AR speakers, KLH or Yamaha NS

D

DennisK2021

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
I'm very ready to move on from my Heresy speakers. Doing the super Heresy mod was fun and the speakers sound very good on some LPs but pretty bad on classic rock. I could put them on stands and add a good subwoofer, but my better half isn't totally pleased with the Heresy size, so adding to that likely doesn't work.

I'm finding quite a few AR 3a speakers on the Bay. I assume I can't lose too much on them if they are in decent shape. I have not been able to find the efficiency of these speakers. I'm thinking anything designed in the 60s could be driven by a PP tube amp. I was also surprised to see that they are 4 Ohm speakers. My Eico doesn't have 4 Ohm taps, but I may move on from it also.

The other speakers I'm thinking about are KLH 5 or 6 or Yamha NS series. A friend of mine recently picked up a set of large Yamaha 690 II NS speakers that sound stunning with his Fisher X100. A smaller version of the NS series could work. Interesting post on Yamaha 70 NS from 2015 here.

Anybody know the efficiency of the ARs and/or have opinions?
 
Register to hide this ad
I have Fives and Sixes.

The Sixes are recapped and revealed. I enjoyed them a great deal with a Pilot 1060 EL84 integrated amp and primarily listening to FM radio. They have a transparency that really allowed me to listen to the music, not the equipment. However, a few years back I lucked into a top of the line Panasonic integrated from 1972 that really lit the KLH's up in a good way.
 
The fives are only 86, maybe 87db sensitivity. I found my st70 lacking on the low end. The fives really benefit from extra power. Sixes are a good compromise if you want tubes.

Much depends on what you listen to and how loudly.
 
With the AR-3a I would worry less about the published sensitivity number and more about the load. They are a fairly demanding 4-ohm speaker and can dip lower, so an amp that is happy delivering current into 4 ohms matters more than nominal wattage. An Eico without a 4-ohm tap would not be my first pairing, especially if you listen to classic rock at realistic levels.

The KLH Six is the safer tube-amp match of the choices you listed. Whichever vintage pair you buy, condition and restoration quality will matter as much as model: confirm original drivers, correct crossover work, sealed cabinets, and working level controls before comparing prices.
 
pete1729 said:
I have Fives and Sixes.

The Sixes are recapped and revealed. I enjoyed them a great deal with a Pilot 1060 EL84 integrated amp and primarily listening to FM radio. They have a transparency that really allowed me to listen to the music, not the equipment. However, a few years back I lucked into a top of the line Panasonic integrated from 1972 that really lit the KLH's up in a good way.
Click to expand...

loudnoises said:
The fives are only 86, maybe 87db sensitivity. I found my st70 lacking on the low end. The fives really benefit from extra power. Sixes are a good compromise if you want tubes.

Much depends on what you listen to and how loudly.
Click to expand...
There are Fives for sale but I agree those aren't what I want. I haven't found Sixes for sale yet.
emusic said:
With the AR-3a I would worry less about the published sensitivity number and more about the load. They are a fairly demanding 4-ohm speaker and can dip lower, so an amp that is happy delivering current into 4 ohms matters more than nominal wattage. An Eico without a 4-ohm tap would not be my first pairing, especially if you listen to classic rock at realistic levels.

The KLH Six is the safer tube-amp match of the choices you listed. Whichever vintage pair you buy, condition and restoration quality will matter as much as model: confirm original drivers, correct crossover work, sealed cabinets, and working level controls before comparing prices.
Click to expand...
Oops, an eBay seller accepted my offer on a set of AR 3a speakers. I didn't think he would.

You are right, I can't play them with tube equipment at the moment. No 4 Ohm on the Eico. I have a project on my bench, a Monarch integrated amp, that does have multiple tapped OPTs but I don't know if it would drive those very well. I can try the speakers as I have an NAD 3130. It is 30 WPC into 8 Ohms, has a 4 Ohm switch and is stable down to 2 Ohms. That will also let me see if the MC phono input of the NAD will work with my very low MC cart. I may also be able to try those speakers on my friend's Fisher X100 when he's done refurbishing it. If that works I'll know what to aim for.
 
I’ve run both my KLH Sixs, and AR3s, with my Scott LK-72, and both sound phenomenal.
It does have a 4ohm tap.
 
The Yamahas are really screechy, I had NS40 3 way. When a mid popped I dropped in some Radio Shack 3.5 inch mids until I could get a replacement, and they sounded better. Lesson learned. NS may well work with older tube gear with the roll off from old carbon resistors. . The other speakers are really power hungry. AR always recommended a minimum of 50 wpc. Your amp will be stretched, how much are the output tubes??? The early model AR are great, BUT Vilcher tuned them by ear for the BSO/Pops/Tanglewood live FM broadcasts on WCRB or GBH FM. He ignored the data. Big hole in the upper mids. Said that to say, once the crossover gets dialed in they work. I had 2ax. And don't be afraid to replace the tweeter with a nice modern soft dome. PS Unless you have an uncle with a pr of AR3 in his attic, there are a bunch of great vintage alternatives for a tenth of the AR.
 
GD70 said:
Model number. Scott specs say 35wpc.
Click to expand...
Thanks, GD. That's encouraging.
MaggieMaggie said:
The Yamahas are really screechy, I had NS40 3 way. When a mid popped I dropped in some Radio Shack 3.5 inch mids until I could get a replacement, and they sounded better. Lesson learned. NS may well work with older tube gear with the roll off from old carbon resistors. . The other speakers are really power hungry. AR always recommended a minimum of 50 wpc. Your amp will be stretched, how much are the output tubes??? The early model AR are great, BUT Vilcher tuned them by ear for the BSO/Pops/Tanglewood live FM broadcasts on WCRB or GBH FM. He ignored the data. Big hole in the upper mids. Said that to say, once the crossover gets dialed in they work. I had 2ax. And don't be afraid to replace the tweeter with a nice modern soft dome. PS Unless you have an uncle with a pr of AR3 in his attic, there are a bunch of great vintage alternatives for a tenth of the AR.
Click to expand...
Well, a little late to stop the ARs from coming. I don't think I'll lose much on them if they're not keepers. Depends on condition, I guess. Also, it looks like if I can get north of 30WPC on a tube amp, they may be fine.

I'm not adverse to getting other speakers in addition to those. I've almost always had a stereo with a turntable, but I never had much money to spend on equipment. I don't know much about what is good. I think vintage trumps current offerings, but what ones?
 
The AR 3a speakers arrived today. Bad shipping damage. See pics. The sound is good on some music, not so good on others. I think the soft dome mid range drivers are noisy at some frequencies. Playing them with my NAD 30 WPC, set to 4 Ohm. Seems like plenty of power to me. I think the little amp has a high current feature on demand? I'll have to dive into the info on AR 3As. Need to get a claim going with USPS, though. The 1st pic is from the ad. The 2nd is the damage. Kinda makes it hard to resell them.

pic from ad.jpgship damage 2.jpg
 
DennisK2021 said:
The AR 3a speakers arrived today. Bad shipping damage. See pics. The sound is good on some music, not so good on others. I think the soft dome mid range drivers are noisy at some frequencies. Playing them with my NAD 30 WPC, set to 4 Ohm. Seems like plenty of power to me. I think the little amp has a high current feature on demand? I'll have to dive into the info on AR 3As. Need to get a claim going with USPS, though. The 1st pic is from the ad. The 2nd is the damage. Kinda makes it hard to resell them.

View attachment 3843111View attachment 3843113
Click to expand...
Well that sucks!
BUT, that’s a fairly easy repair. You’ll need to remove all the loose particle board pieces to pull the corner back together with clamps. Also you’ll, need to massage the depressed area back up level from underneath. Test this before you do any gluing to ensure you can get the corner edges together. I use Z-Poxy finishing resin for this type of repair. It’s very thin and soaks into the damaged particle board, making it very strong. When you clamp it make sure to wipe away any of the epoxy that squeezes out.
Regarding the sound, were the pots cleaned or replaced? What about crossover work?
Glenn
 
GD70 said:
Well that sucks!
BUT, that’s a fairly easy repair. You’ll need to remove all the loose particle board pieces to pull the corner back together with clamps. Also you’ll, need to massage the depressed area back up level from underneath. Test this before you do any gluing to ensure you can get the corner edges together. I use Z-Poxy finishing resin for this type of repair. It’s very thin and soaks into the damaged particle board, making it very strong. When you clamp it make sure to wipe away any of the epoxy that squeezes out.
Regarding the sound, were the pots cleaned or replaced? What about crossover work?
Glenn
Click to expand...
What about the veneer? How could one match the old veneer and make it look anything like it did?

As far as the pots, etc. I think everything is pretty rough. Also looks like something embedded in one of the woofers. These will need work that I think are beyond me. I have the pdf on restoring these speakers but don't have much experience.
tgmartin said:
Bad packing or bad carrier? AWWW ...
Click to expand...
A little of both. They were well packed, with Styrofoam, etc, but in a single box. A double box might have saved them. Fed Ex no longer allows the recipient to file a claim so the seller will have to file. I have no idea of their current value vs what I paid. I'm thinking they may go back. Does it look like this woofer is salvageable?

Woofer.jpg

It looks like a pin is inserted in one woofer and they are in pretty bad shape.
 
DennisK2021 said:
What about the veneer? How could one match the old veneer and make it look anything like it did?

As far as the pots, etc. I think everything is pretty rough. Also looks like something embedded in one of the woofers. These will need work that I think are beyond me. I have the pdf on restoring these speakers but don't have much experience.

A little of both. They were well packed, with Styrofoam, etc, but in a single box. A double box might have saved them. Fed Ex no longer allows the recipient to file a claim so the seller will have to file. I have no idea of their current value vs what I paid. I'm thinking they may go back. Does it look like this woofer is salvageable?

View attachment 3843838

It looks like a pin is inserted in one woofer and they are in pretty bad shape.
Click to expand...
Return these posthaste.
 
DennisK2021 said:
What about the veneer? How could one match the old veneer and make it look anything like it did?

As far as the pots, etc. I think everything is pretty rough. Also looks like something embedded in one of the woofers. These will need work that I think are beyond me. I have the pdf on restoring these speakers but don't have much experience.

A little of both. They were well packed, with Styrofoam, etc, but in a single box. A double box might have saved them. Fed Ex no longer allows the recipient to file a claim so the seller will have to file. I have no idea of their current value vs what I paid. I'm thinking they may go back. Does it look like this woofer is salvageable?

View attachment 3843838

It looks like a pin is inserted in one woofer and they are in pretty bad shape.
Click to expand...
The original veneer is all there, and I’d work with it and repair as I mentioned.
Pin in the woofer is weird. Remove it, and put a drop of Aileen’s Tacky glue in the tiny hole to seal it.
Except for that, many 3 woofers are similar condition and sound fine.
These are project speakers, and since you have them, might as well learn how to work on them, and be mightily rewarded when completed.
The mids almost always needing repair work. The domes have a flexible sealer around the base, which by now has pretty much petrified, greatly reducing their output. Roy C., one of the authors of the AR-3a restoration guide removes this sealer, and re-suspends the domes to perform like new. He’s done several sets for me.
This is all up to you, but they are great sounding speakers when restored properly.
 
DennisK2021 said:
What about the veneer? How could one match the old veneer and make it look anything like it did?

As far as the pots, etc. I think everything is pretty rough. Also looks like something embedded in one of the woofers. These will need work that I think are beyond me. I have the pdf on restoring these speakers but don't have much experience.
A little of both. They were well packed, with Styrofoam, etc, but in a single box. A double box might have saved them. Fed Ex no longer allows the recipient to file a claim so the seller will have to file. I have no idea of their current value vs what I paid. I'm thinking they may go back. Does it look like this woofer is salvageable?

Woofer.jpg

It looks like a pin is inserted in one woofer and they are in pretty bad shape.
Click to expand...
Was this your intention, buying "project" speakers? Was it priced correctly to be a "project", or priced for operational, undamaged specimens?
Obviously there are folks here who would be more than willing to hold your hand through the repair/restoration process if that is what you want.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom