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AR XB Tonearm Upgrade

bobins08

Celebrating Life
I bought my AR XB about a year ago, partly out of curiosity but also for nostalgic reasons. I went to high school in the 70’s and can recall several friends that had them. I always thought they looked a bit primitive, even back then, but they were excellent sounding tables. Since joining AK and immersing myself in the hobby, I really enjoy reading all of the AR XA/XB threads and I am amazed at the following that this table has. I now really appreciate both its looks and the simplicity. When the opportunity to pick up an XB at a great price came my way I jumped on it.

I used my XB sparingly until recently when I set it up as a 2nd table to my TD 160. First I put my V15-III on it, next the Grado GF1+ with a MCZ stylus. I really started to like the sound of the Grado quite a bit. My Stock XB is in picture 1.

Marc Morin was kind enough to build an upgraded XB arm for me to try. He said I had not really heard my Grado yet. This past weekend I set out to replace my stock arm with Marc’s upgraded arm and also do some maintenance on the XB. I replaced the power switch capacitor (it used to produce an audible pop). I serviced the cueing device, added 100K silicon and got it working properly. I cleaned the platter and arm sleeves out and added fresh oil. Pictures 2 shows the cueing device. Picture 3 is the new arm compared to the old one. Note the upgraded wires. The upgraded arm uses sapphire cups and the pivots are polished to a higher standard … I’ll let Mark explain all that ME stuff.

The task of replacing the arm took longer than I thought. My eyes are not great. My bench skills have diminished from my 20’s (which was the last time that I did much of this kind of work) but I am gaining some of it back. Working with 33 gauge wires in Teflon jackets was a first time experience. I had a disconnected wire to deal with (twice), and some scraping of insulation to re-strip a few ends. But I survived it ok.

Pictures 4 and 5 show the old and new wiring. You may know that AR’s are grounded via the left channel RCA shield. At Marc’s request I jumpered the ground to the right RCA shield as well. This did make the table quieter than the stock configuration. I get no hum at all, even with volume maxed.
I feel that the AR arm, which sets in an oil filled sleeve, is tricky to work on at times. Beside the mess of the oil, you have to be careful of the wires. I loosened the suspension spring at the tone arm and shimmed it up to provide room to pull the wires through.

After ringing it out, oiling everything, putting it together it was time for alignment. Mark set the overhang and azimuth when he built the arm. I checked them both and did not touch a thing. I think he knows something about this ... :scratch2:

Time to play it. First I checked for hum and other noise and all theh potential bad stuff was absent. Next I tested the power on/off switch, no more pops. Then I put on a familiar record and I instantly noticed a big, big improvement.

What is better about the sound? Everything. :D There is no need for me to toss out all the buzz words, every aspect is better. If you have a stock arm you need too strongly consider this upgrade. I postponed setting up the cueing until the next day … I was tired and its best to not work on a turntable when you’re tired. Instead I played the XB from 6:00 pm to 2:00 AM. I am completely happy with the new arm.

Working with Marc was a pleasure. What a gentleman and an extremely knowledgeable engineer. Thanks again Marc! :yes:

I consider this phase 1 of a 2 stage project and I am going to do more of his upgrades in the future. This project was well worth the time and effort. Consider me an AR/Grado fan. I just love the sound this table is producing. It is a comfortable sound. :music:

Not to wave the flag but I do like having an old and good American product in my collection of turntables. For me, part of the fun of this hobby is reconnecting with a joyful past.

Cheers, Bob
 

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What a gentleman and an extremely knowledgeable engineer. Thanks again Marc! :yes:


Cheers, Bob

ENGINEER???
Here I was thinking he was just a really, really smart guy!!:sigh:
Now
I don't feel so bad not understanding some of the things he was telling me I needed to do!
Yeah, and he's a pretty good gentleman too so....
Thanks again from here too Marc.
 
ENGINEER???
Here I was thinking he was just a really, really smart guy!!:sigh:
Now
I don't feel so bad not understanding some of the things he was telling me I needed to do!
Yeah, and he's a pretty good gentleman too so....
Thanks again from here too Marc.

Yes, he must be a mechanical engineer. Spring rates, filter Q .... :yes:
 
FTR..........retired engineer :yes:

The ground scheme I talked Bob into was one of those "quite by accident" things. A customer asked that I run two grounds since he would be running two mono preamps. I had installed RCA jacks into his base, so I simply summed all grounds there. Each cable would have the same ground potential. Although the Haydon motor in an XA and most XBs produces a little EMF picked up by a Grado, this grounding reduces that. I've run this on 3 or 4 tables now, all running Grado carts, and all responding the same way.
It also "blackens" the background.......dunno why.

Glad you like the arm Bob. They just look crude. The basic geometry Ed Villchur came up with is impeccable. Just a few things need improved upon.
 
FTR..........retired engineer :yes:

The ground scheme I talked Bob into was one of those "quite by accident" things. A customer asked that I run two grounds since he would be running two mono preamps. I had installed RCA jacks into his base, so I simply summed all grounds there. Each cable would have the same ground potential. Although the Haydon motor in an XA and most XBs produces a little EMF picked up by a Grado, this grounding reduces that. I've run this on 3 or 4 tables now, all running Grado carts, and all responding the same way.
It also "blackens" the background.......dunno why.

Glad you like the arm Bob. They just look crude. The basic geometry Ed Villchur came up with is impeccable. Just a few things need improved upon.

Engineers may retire but they never really stop engineering. I manage a team of EE's developing avionics systems and sensors. I can tell by the clarity in your communication that you have command of the subjects that you discuss.

Ground scheme: I made a note to really listen to the background noise of the stock unit before I put in the grounding change. I had a noise on the right channel that was not from the Grado, I had to turn the volume to much higher than normal levels to hear it, but it was there.

Before the arm swap, I measured the resistance from the left shield to ground it and measured a few tenths of an ohm to ground. That seemed odd to me. :scratch2: After the arm swap I summed both shields to ground. Both shields are dead shorts to ground now. The background a bit blacker and with no signal present I can crank the volume and that noise is gone.
 
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Thanks. I just got the azimuth dialed in correctly, like it must have been on the stock arm, and WOW!!! Much better.

The Grado w/ MCZ has such a wonderful wide soundstage.

With this "new" arm a veil has been lifted. I am hearing details on par with my DL 301 mk II.

I am very pleased with it.
 
Thanks. I just got the azimuth dialed in correctly, like it must have been on the stock arm, and WOW!!! Much better.

The Grado w/ MCZ has such a wonderful wide soundstage.

With this "new" arm a veil has been lifted. I am hearing details on par with my DL 301 mk II.

I am very pleased with it.

Glad it's working for you. Without knowing exactly mat thickness and such, settings of the arm are "ballparked". It's a pretty easy arm to set up except for VTA which is done by either changing mats, shimming the cart, shimming the pivot post , or some combination of the three. As you can see, the MCZ is a critical stylus, and will let you know if it doesn't like something. The basic engineering of the arm is impeccable. With a few modifications of the weak points in it produces an arm, that once set up properly, will compete with any affordable arm. Graham Engineering adopted Ed Villchur's concepts in their flagship arm, and their discription of the advantages of the "neutral balance" is almost word for word what Villchur wrote in the early 60's.
 
My own AR XB is nicknamed Edgar after it's designer. Have had a lot of maintenance and previous owner poor setup to undo. It has responded to careful love, attention on maintenance and setup, and plays at correct speed without fuss and delivers me unfettered musical pleasure with accuracy. Edgar has an Audio-Technica AT 71 E presently, plan on upgrading cartridges soon.
 
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=590550


My own words concerning some of the tone arm work Marc has done for me and my XA.
Personally I love the looks of the original tone arm. To me the looks have a certain charm about them and always have had from the first time I saw one. After Marc worked on mine I was awe struck and over the course of several months bought up 3 more minty headshells for different carts I own.
 
I agree with dosmalo; I find the AR arms elegant in their simplicity.
Some arms out there strike me as Rub Goldburg(ish); add this to fix this, add that to make that work and add a gerbil powered wheel to make it all work.
 
My own AR XB is nicknamed Edgar after it's designer. Have had a lot of maintenance and previous owner poor setup to undo. It has responded to careful love, attention on maintenance and setup, and plays at correct speed without fuss and delivers me unfettered musical pleasure with accuracy. Edgar has an Audio-Technica AT 71 E presently, plan on upgrading cartridges soon.

I had my stock arm set up nicely with a V-15 III (w/ SAS) and then a Grado GF1+ (w/ MCZ) on it. Set up is the key (applies to any TT).

I changed the arm on Saturday and really just dialed it in correcty last night on Tuesday. The first day I was so enthralled with the extra details of the new arm that I did not fine tune it. It seems to take me a few days of critical listening to hear everything and figure out what to do. When I did a slight adjustment to azimuth last night it made a major improvment. :yes:

Marc says "the Grado will tell you when some is wrong" and I believe it.

I am going to beat on the Grado drum. If you have an older Grado body laying around consider it for your XB. Lots of folks are using them with 8MZ or MCZ stylus.

Cheers, Bob
 
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http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=590550


My own words concerning some of the tone arm work Marc has done for me and my XA.
Personally I love the looks of the original tone arm. To me the looks have a certain charm about them and always have had from the first time I saw one. After Marc worked on mine I was awe struck and over the course of several months bought up 3 more minty headshells for different carts I own.

Great reference to your thread. I see I popped in on message #5 and said I would like to upgrade my stock XB. It took me a year but I got there! :banana:
 
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=590550


My own words concerning some of the tone arm work Marc has done for me and my XA.
Personally I love the looks of the original tone arm. To me the looks have a certain charm about them and always have had from the first time I saw one. After Marc worked on mine I was awe struck and over the course of several months bought up 3 more minty headshells for different carts I own.

The original tonearm tube is certainly fine but Marc was kind enough to replace the tube (rewired and damped) on my XB to allow the use of standard head shells. Having slots in the head shell allows me to easily set the overhang at 16.5mm. I switch between a G1+/MCZ and a M91ED/SAS. Both carts have their strengths but I prefer the Grado. Here is a photo with the Shure.

DSC_0464_zps91a4e8d3.jpg
 
Grado not suitable for me. Too difficult/fiddly for safe stylus change. And the stylus I need for it to sound proper is expensive now. Audio-Technica AT 71/72 E stylus replacement or AT 100 or AT 120 E, or Shure M 97xE looks like what I plan on doing as this will mainly play LP discs in nice condition.
 
Grado not suitable for me. Too difficult/fiddly for safe stylus change. And the stylus I need for it to sound proper is expensive now. Audio-Technica AT 71/72 E stylus replacement or AT 100 or AT 120 E, or Shure M 97xE looks like what I plan on doing as this will mainly play LP discs in nice condition.

I am curious as to what is difficult about Grado stylus and set up? My older body GF1+ came with a handy stylus removing tool. Installation is a snap.

Yes, the recent price hike on 8MZ and MCZ might be a turn off and non-starter for some.

My impression of the MCZ is that it is worth the money when compared to other stylus/cartridge in its price range. Overall I like it better than my V15-III w/ SAS, although the Shure w/SAS combo has its strengths and is very enjoyable as well. I also tried a M97xE with stock stylus and to my tastes and hearing it is not at the same level as the two aforementioned.

I have not tried any AT products on the XB yet. I don't see the Grado coming off anytime soon. :yes:


Cheers, Bob
 
Not without removing the headshell, though. Which I wish to do as little as possible. And the MCZ stylus is essential. With the music I play, the hum issue may be a major issue. I do like the Grado Black/MCZ stylus in my Technics SP-25, who's Audio-Technica ATP 16-T arm is a nice partner. And it is quiet on that combination to boot. And I have that combination on a headshell available. And love it. It reminds me of my old favorite Stanton 681 EEE-S II. And I will be using that Grado for a long time. So my love for Grado is there.
 
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Bobins08... Glad to see your AR is almost done. Any idea when Phase 2 will start, and what are your plans for this phase? A lot of people still do not buy into the AR as a primary turntable. Once you hear one of these that has had some form of modification, you will become slackjawed.

Please make sure you post your pics in The Official AR Owners Thread.
 
Bobins08... Glad to see your AR is almost done.

Thank you. My XB is sounding good enough to keep me happy for awhile. The work done to date has been: clean up, oil and lube, add Marc’s tonearm upgrade, fix the cueing, replace the bad switch capacitor, and dial in the alignment. I was calling this phase 1. I also used Blu Tak to fill the voids in the pulley (for mass loading). I plan trying some other platter mats and also looking into headshell improvements for the Grado.

...Any idea when Phase 2 will start, and what are your plans for this phase? ...

Phase 2 cannot start until winter time at best because I have too many others things taking up my time. This is ok by me as it gives me time to become familiar with the XB. In Phase 2 I plan to incorporate the following: a beautiful plinth, re-paint the top plate, adjustable feet for easy leveling, RCA jacks on the back, Marc’s suspension upgrade. Marc also mentioned some motor improvements to consider. I still need to decide if I want to convert to SME headshells too.

A lot of people still do not buy into the AR as a primary turntable. Once you hear one of these that has had some form of modification, you will become slackjawed.

I try not to get too concerned with that. We all hear what we hear, and we all have different goals and reasons for being in the hobby. Some people are at a equipment level far beyond me so I can see why someone would not want an XA/XB and that is fine.

When I heard my stock XB I was impressed with it. After Marc’s arm change it has improved significantly but it is still not my best sounding table. I have no reason to doubt that the phase 2 changes will take it another positive step or two.

As I stated in my first post. Some of my reasons for wanting an AR are nostalgic, and i like learning and tweaking, of course if it didn’t sound so good I would not sink any time and money into it.

I will add a few pictures to your thread.

Cheers, Bob
 
My AR XB is now my living room system turntable. And this is bone stock at that. I do plan on some mild tweaks. That rubber Technics mat must go.
 
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