AR XB turntable with some problems

[andhol]

Hello everyone and thanks for the help in advance

I've recently acquired a beautiful XB in original condition ( I think ) with the dust cover.

It sort of works and keeps good speed at 33.33rpm but it has some quirks:

1. The motor is noisy (it is the original Haydon). I've tried the method of dropping oil into the motor, which helps muting the sound but there is still a faint but audible 'tktktk' sound, which worsens with use. The rod sticking up from the motor has minimal play both vertically and horizontally.

Should I open the motor up and flush it, or is cleaning it not an option anymore?

2. The sub-chassis is sloshing around, which is worsened by a slightly bent spindle (I think). When I'm playing a record the platter and tonearm are both shaking, sometimes it's a bit better, sometimes it's quite bad; maybe time for new springs even though there doesn't seem to be much slack on the chassis?

3. Who makes good belts for these? The one right now seems fairly used, which probably worsens the problems with the table..

4. The cueing is extremely sticky, probably in need of a good cleaning: what oil should be used for it?

Now I know there are probably answers somewhere here in the AK forum, but I'm planning on modding this table (with your help ) so I figured a dedicated thread would be nice for this table.

Attached are some pictures of the table!

Greetings from Finland, I probably own one of the only AR tables over here

EDIT: forgot to mention that I've cleaned the platter well with IPA and filled it with oil, cleaned the subplatter and the spindle also, the 'putty' modification for added weight has also been done (not by me)

 

[Mozark]

AR owners thread: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/official-ar-turntable-owners-thread.595003/
Long thread, but worth the read. It will answer your questions.

Sub chassis" sloshing" around sounds to me like the rotating assembly (two part platter) is unbalanced. If I read this right you're saying that the whole chassis platter assembly is oscillating side to side while spinning. I would suggest determining why and correcting this first. (edit) may be something simple, or may be more problematic.

"Slightly bent spindle" is worrisome, may be an indicator of damage to the spindle/inner platter. Honestly, if the spindle is bent, or the platter damaged from undue force on the spindle, then I would replace it. Any pictures of this?

And, congratulations, welcome to the club!

 

[andhol]

AR owners thread: https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/official-ar-turntable-owners-thread.595003/
Long thread, but worth the read. It will answer your questions.

Sub chassis" sloshing" around sounds to me like the rotating assembly (two part platter) is unbalanced. If I read this right you're saying that the whole chassis platter assembly is oscillating side to side while spinning. I would suggest determining why and correcting this first.

"Slightly bent spindle" may be an indicator of damage to the spindle/inner platter. Honestly, if the spindle is bent, or the platter damaged from undue force on the spindle, then I would replace it. Any pictures of this?

And, congratulations, welcome to the club!

Thank you! I've read some of it
But I'll know what I'll do tonight!

With the spindle I actually ment the pulley, sorry english isn't my first or second language..

Yes the sub chassis is definitely not balanced properly, the springs at the platter are much more rigid than the spring next to the tonearm or maybe this is normal?

I feel like the pulley possibly being slightly bent ends up moving the whole subplatter and platter which in turn causes the whole sub chassis to wiggle.. I saw that vinylnirvana is selling a replacement pulley, but I'd like to find a OEM if possible..

Maybe putting more foam or tightening the springs would help with this, the springs don't seem to be useless as they still support the weight of the assembly

 

[Mozark]

Ah, good. Bent pulley is is much better than damaged spindle/platter. Replace the pulley, then adjust.

The platter should sit with an even gap between its lower edge and the top plate. Say 3 or 4 mm. If this is uneven, or too great or small, then begin looking at the suspension. The suspension is quite delicate. Attempting to adjust it with a bent pulley will be an exercise in futility.

((edit) To elaborate, if the platter to top plate gap is uneven, then, sure, play with the suspension, but if it's even then I'd replace the pulley before chasing your tail.)

Michael

 

[StuartB]

I would definitely replace that pulley before taking any other major steps. It could create or mask other issues.

On the motor, have you run oil in it for extended period of time? I usually will put a drop or two on the spindle and let it run overnight. Then use a Q-Tip to clean off the excess oil. If it has darkened at all then the oil is floating up debris from the motor. Repeat the process until the oil stays clear. I use a full synthetic motor oil....something like 5w/30 Mobil 1. The motors can be disassembled and cleaned. It is no guarantee that it quiets down.

It appears that there is dirt in the platter well, and the Delrin thrust plate is worn. At a bare minimum clean out the well, remove the remnant of the foam ring on the top, and flip the thrust plate over to give you a better surface. Perhaps the photo is before you cleaned it?

You mention that there is putty applied to add mass. Where is it located? I did not see it, but if there is mass added somewhere it could be impacting the balance of the platter and t-bar assembly.

On the arm lift, if I remember correctly it uses 100,000 cSt silicone. Perhaps someone can confirm that?

You will find a ton of assistance and experience here. Welcome.

 

[andhol]

I would definitely replace that pulley before taking any other major steps. It could create or mask other issues.

On the motor, have you run oil in it for extended period of time? I usually will put a drop or two on the spindle and let it run overnight. Then use a Q-Tip to clean off the excess oil. If it has darkened at all then the oil is floating up debris from the motor. Repeat the process until the oil stays clear. I use a full synthetic motor oil....something like 5w/30 Mobil 1. The motors can be disassembled and cleaned. It is no guarantee that it quiets down.

It appears that there is dirt in the platter well, and the Delrin thrust plate is worn. At a bare minimum clean out the well, remove the remnant of the foam ring on the top, and flip the thrust plate over to give you a better surface. Perhaps the photo is before you cleaned it?

You mention that there is putty applied to add mass. Where is it located? I did not see it, but if there is mass added somewhere it could be impacting the balance of the platter and t-bar assembly.

On the arm lift, if I remember correctly it uses 100,000 cSt silicone. Perhaps someone can confirm that?

You will find a ton of assistance and experience here. Welcome.

Hey!

Yes, I'm definitely getting a new pulley, does anyone have a good EU source for them? Not keen on importing stuff from the US as it is quite expensive..

I've ran the motor for about 48h, the longest being overnight, with different singer/sewing machine oils and everytime it has pulled out some gunk but now the oil doesn't look too dirty..

I think opening the motor might still be the better option than flooding the motor with oil and hoping that it clears it out, I can then see if it is infact working properly and not broken?

Yes! The picture is before I did the cleaning. I didn't flip the thrust plate, thats something I'll do today I've filled it with sewing machine oil and it spins freely.

The cueing arm uses silicone oil, cts 100 000-300 000 is what marc morin recommended

The putty is on the pulley to add mass to it, assisting the motor to keep speed or something or am I wrong?

And thank you so much This is one of the most welcoming forums!

 

[andhol]

Ah, good. Bent pulley is is much better than damaged spindle/platter. Replace the pulley, then adjust.

The platter should sit with an even gap between its lower edge and the top plate. Say 3 or 4 mm. If this is uneven, or too great or small, then begin looking at the suspension. The suspension is quite delicate. Attempting to adjust it with a bent pulley will be an exercise in futility.

((edit) To elaborate, if the platter to top plate gap is uneven, then, sure, play with the suspension, but if it's even then I'd replace the pulley before chasing your tail.)

Michael

The platter top gap is even, 3mm on both sides. I think replacing the pulley is my first priority, now I just have to source one from somewhere..

 

[StuartB]

The putty is on the pulley to add mass to it, assisting the motor to keep speed or something or am I wrong?

Oh, got it. Yes, you can add mass to the pulley, but it needs to be balanced. Perhaps that is part of the wobble you are experiencing. Replacing it may solve several issues. Good luck.

 

[the_nines]

snip.....
4. The cueing is extremely sticky, probably in need of a good cleaning: what oil should be used for it?
snip....

This is what I did:

Cleaned out and replaced the cueing silicone fluid on my AR-XB.

AR-XB cueing (cleaned and replaced damping fluid)... easy! **Pics** Many thanks to Marcmorin for all his advice, below is how I cleaned the cueing cylinder, piston and replaced the damping fluid. Model racing car differential fluid from my local hobby store, I used 100,000 cst, some isopropyl...

audiokarma.org

Good luck.

 

[andhol]

Oh, got it. Yes, you can add mass to the pulley, but it needs to be balanced. Perhaps that is part of the wobble you are experiencing. Replacing it may solve several issues. Good luck.

Yeah! I'm trying to find an EU source for it, but it's not looking too good.. Maybe I'll bite the bullet and order from vinylnirvana.

 

[andhol]

Oh, got it. Yes, you can add mass to the pulley, but it needs to be balanced. Perhaps that is part of the wobble you are experiencing. Replacing it may solve several issues. Good luck.

I tried to re-apply it and level it out, but it looks like the rod connecting it to the motor is slightly bent..