AR2ax speaker wiring

[Couldbfishin]

Hello,

I have a pair of British AR2ax speakers that have been run with a Bang and Olufsen BeoSystem 5500, about the same vintage, and they sounded great. I decided to disconnect them and move them to the MBR. All I did was unplug the B&O adapters from their sockets on the back of the B&O receiver, and disconnect the speaker wire from the backs of the AR2ax speakers. I set it back up in the other room, and then turned the receiver and CD player on. The music was VERY distorted and sounded terrible. So I quickly turned the amp off.

I found on the net some wiring instructions for the AR2ax. It said:

Terminal 1 is for the woofer and the negative or common speaker wire should be connected to it.
Terminal 2 is for the mid-range and the positive speaker wire should be connected to it.
Terminal 3 is for the tweeter and should be bi-wired to Terminal 2 if not intended to be powered separately.

My speaker has been bi-wired between terminals 2 and 3 since I bought them years ago, and it always sounded great, until today.

I double checked my connections and sure enough I had the + and - backwards. I corrected the wiring and turned the receiver back on, with a CD. The sound is still awful. Just like before I reversed the speaker wires.

What have I done wrong? Have I damaged something on the receiver, on the speakers? Any ideas?

See photos below.

Thanks.

 

[RxDx]

Not sure what you've done wrong.

The terminals are:
1 is ground
2 is positive for the woofer
T is positive for the midrange and tweeter

This arrangement wasn't originally for bi-amping. It was for disconnecting
the built-in mid and tweet and adding an auxiliary unit, like the AR-3T or
the Janszen 1-30.

 

[Couldbfishin]

Not sure what you've done wrong.

The terminals are:
1 is ground
2 is positive for the woofer
T is positive for the midrange and tweeter

This arrangement wasn't originally for bi-amping. It was for disconnecting
the built-in mid and tweet and adding an auxiliary unit, like the AR-3T or
the Janszen 1-30.

Thanks RxDx
I believe we are agreeing. However, I wasn't implying bi-amp, but bi-wire. The wire that passes between two (bi) terminals- 2 and T, or the mid-range and the tweeter. I read that the difference between the AR2A and the AR2ax, was that the AR2A did not have the internal tweeter and it was possible to use an external tweeter, or mid-range and tweeter as you suggest. Again, I think we are saying the same thing.
Now if I can figure out why the speakers are making this horrible sound and how to fix it.
Did I do something to the speaker or the B&O receiver when I made the wrong connections the first attempt?
Thanks again.

 

[spark1]

Deleted.

 

[RxDx]

Not sure if you're making a distinction that doesn't exist. The T wire is for both the midrange
and the tweeter, on both the 2a and 2ax. Both can function as only a woofer with auxiliary
mids and tweeters, with the T terminal unhooked from the 2 terminal.

The 2a does have a midrange, like the 2ax. They are functionally the same, even if the midrange
drivers are different.

Test the speakers with a different amp or receiver to see if they're okay.

 

[Couldbfishin]

RxDx,

Thanks for providing the lists of AR and KLH speakers. I saved both lists for convenience but will also watch your lists for updates.

I enjoy listening to KLH speakers and have rebuilt models 5, 6, 17 and 20. My favorites are the model 5s. But the 4 ohm model 20s sound wonderful with my McIntosh C20 preamp and MC40 mono blocks. The model 6 cross over rebuild has some issues. I am sure I did it according to the schematic drawing I had at the time. I need to open it up again and check it against other schematics. If you have a copy of the drawing would you mind sharing it with me? I will send you the one I used on a PM.

I have not seen a KLH model one. Would you mind posting a few photos. Would love to see them.

I never see any of the good vintage speakers at thrift stores here in the Houston area. I guess people know their value now and sell them on CL or eBay. Estate sales are a little more productive, but you have to his 8-10 weekend sales to find a deal. I found my KLHs on eBay. I also buy spare drivers when I see them at reasonable prices. I test them, box them up and have a little collection in the closet. I do the same with JBL vintage speaker parts. Never know when they might be needed. So, if you ever need something and you cannot find it elsewhere, let me know. We might could work a trade.

 

[spark1]

Deleted.

 

[RxDx]

RxDx,

Thanks for providing the lists of AR and KLH speakers. I saved both lists for convenience but will also watch your lists for updates.

I enjoy listening to KLH speakers and have rebuilt models 5, 6, 17 and 20. My favorites are the model 5s. But the 4 ohm model 20s sound wonderful with my McIntosh C20 preamp and MC40 mono blocks. The model 6 cross over rebuild has some issues. I am sure I did it according to the schematic drawing I had at the time. I need to open it up again and check it against other schematics. If you have a copy of the drawing would you mind sharing it with me? I will send you the one I used on a PM.

I have not seen a KLH model one. Would you mind posting a few photos. Would love to see them.

I never see any of the good vintage speakers at thrift stores here in the Houston area. I guess people know their value now and sell them on CL or eBay. Estate sales are a little more productive, but you have to his 8-10 weekend sales to find a deal. I found my KLHs on eBay. I also buy spare drivers when I see them at reasonable prices. I test them, box them up and have a little collection in the closet. I do the same with JBL vintage speaker parts. Never know when they might be needed. So, if you ever need something and you cannot find it elsewhere, let me know. We might could work a trade.

Thanks! I'll keep this in mind.

Here's the thread on my Model Ones, and here's the KLH speaker reference thread I did. It has the
Model Six crossover schematic on the second page.

 

[Couldbfishin]

Spark1, two deleted messages. What is going on? And you are a Super Member.

 

[Couldbfishin]

Thanks again RxDx. I couldn't find the electronic copy of the schematic I used to rebuild the KLH Model 6 crossover, but I am sure I have a written or printed copy in the file. I will pull it this weekend and compare it to what you just posted. Maybe this week I will reopen the cabinets and see what I did wrong. I get no sound out of them at all right now, and they have been this way for a year or so. Just need to get back on that project.

Speaking of projects. If it is not the AR2ax speakers that are causing the sound issues, and it is the B&O receiver. What would be a logical place to start looking.

I will as I can get to it this weekend, bring some more speakers downstairs and wire them to the B&O receiver and confirm it is not the AR2ax speakers. But, I cannot imagine them both acting up at the same time, unless it is a problem with the B&O receiver.

This morning I have been moving the L150 speakers around in the living room. Just separating them about another 7-8 feet, and pulling them away from the wall, made a huge improvement. They sound like I knew they were capable of sounding. And it fills the room. I have turned off the JBL L110s at the speaker control box. Sometime this weekend I will remove the box and wire the L150s directly to the MC452. I wish I had some more 12 AWG speaker wire. I have lots of 14 gauge wire, and will have to use it until I can get more 12 gauge.

 

[Couldbfishin]

RxDx
Forgot to ask if the KLH model 1 is a single or if you have two of them. And, is it working now. It looks pretty dusty in the photo. Are those two 10" or 12" woofers and are those the only drivers in the speaker? That sure is a large vent in the top, or is there a horn hidden in there somewhere? I need to refer to your lists to see what it came with.

 

[RxDx]

On the Sixes, there are washers on the terminal plate that isolate the
terminals themselves from the plate. If they're not set up right, you'll
be shorting the amp out.

I'd be tempted to test the receiver with some headphones first. Might
confirm its condition without the heavy lifting...

14 gauge should be up to the task, unless you're trying to light up a
stadium or something

 

[RxDx]

RxDx
Forgot to ask if the KLH model 1 is a single or if you have two of them. And, is it working now. It looks pretty dusty in the photo. Are those two 10" or 12" woofers and are those the only drivers in the speaker? That sure is a large vent in the top, or is there a horn hidden in there somewhere? I need to refer to your lists to see what it came with.

It's a pair. They are 12" woofers, and yes, they're the only drivers in
the cabinet. The space at the top was originally for Janszen 1-30s or
KLH's own (original) Model Five tweeter setup.

This was taken a few years ago, at peak speaker. The herd is much
smaller now.

 

[Couldbfishin]

I just read your thread beginning to end and commented at the end. Wonderful speakers, great rebuild and documentation. Thanks for sharing. Wish I lived next door to you and could have worked on with you. What an experience!

You have a nice collection or herd as you say.

 

[RxDx]

Yeah, that would have been cool. There was plenty of work

The herd is down to (only!) 11 pairs now

 

[Couldbfishin]

Mystery is SOLVED

I suspected it was something simple that I was overlooking.

Drum roll.......

On a B&O Beosystem 5500 receiver, the connections on the back are under a panel that you lift up. There are no RCA sockets for the inputs from the other components of the system or for the speaker connections. B&O has their own socket and plug connections unique to their equipment. There are maybe 8 sockets, stacked in pairs, one over the other. Then there are printed descriptions saying CD, phono, etc. But, it doesn't specify which socket is which. It is not logical or intuitive, at least not to me.

What I had done, and I have done it before with Tape 1 and Tape 2, was insert the plug for the CD player into the socket for the phono, and vice versa. I had a 50/50 chance of getting it right, and I didn't. I had the CD plug in the phono socket. Since the phone line is lower voltage the CD music sounded very loud and very distorted as it passed through the phono input.

I am attaching a few photos so you see what I am describing.

Thanks again to all of you. The system sounds good in its new home,

 

[mitchalee]

I'm sorry! Been using AR2a loudspeakers for years and getting a bit confused here. This is my oh so simple working understanding:

1 = ground or negative or whatever you want to call it, but, in any case, it is the ONLY GROUND so it serves for the entire loudspeaker and is the only ground one will ever need with an AR2a. Right?
2 = woofer signal or positive or whatever; and that's all it is. Right?
T =midrange and tweeter signal or positive or whatever; and that's all. Right?

OK. So this arrangement of 3 connection posts allows one to hook up the woofer alone and add external high end drivers. Right?

Are we good so far?

Now, I suppose it would also allow one to just hook up both the mid and tweet leaving off the woofer. Anyone tried this? I have not, but don't see why it should not work though I can imagine a way to wire this network so it would not it would have to get fairly esoteric. Let's hope AR used their usual common sense!

One could probably also try bi-amping. But this I am very skeptical of unless one has common ground amps and then ground them together somehow. Because if you tried to bi-amp then the high amp and low amp's grounds would short. Right? So if it was common ground to begin with, then we're still good, maybe; but if the amp is not common ground, then we might get smoke when you turn them all into a meta-common-ground-amp, sort of all into one! Obviously, do not try this at home, kids!

Now, getting back to the original question, for any of you with patience and tolerance for INTPs' humor, I have no idea if you wrecked your amp's output stage. BUT you probably could wreck some amps by getting fancy with these three connection posts. Again, but from what you described, I see no way to wreck an amp. or a speaker.

Of course, not seeing an actual schematic for all these devices anything is possible. So my suggestion is to try swapping in another amp. DO the speakers suddenly sound better? Try a $25 class D if you don't have an extra. Also, do headphones sound OK in the amp? The headphone circuit probably uses the same amp as the speakers. Probably.

Isolate the problem. Then sin no more. And if one of the components really is damaged, I'd be interested in which one since I don't want to offend my AR2a or Cayin A-50T in which I am well pleased.

Good luck!

Mitch