• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Audio Accounting And Are You Brave Enough To Do It?

My initial investment at around 20 years old was about a grand. That was an enormous sum at the time. I was ecstatic.
Since then was probably about 2 grand if you don't count carts. I had a bunch of TOTL receivers from Onkyo, Marantz, Sansui and Yamaha. Tons of great speakers. I was ecstatic.
Sold a couple of them, so I was at the break-even point, and bought 2018 model speakers, amp and preamp. Spent a boatload, I am ecstatic.
 
4-2-7 said:
Re-read my post
Click to expand...
Right. The same is true of many brands when you buy used after the original buyer's heavy depreciation has already taken its toll. The two thirds hit on the preamp will likely not fall much lower.

Buying used of anything offers more apparent value. I bought and sold a used Crown amp for $300 over the course of a year and a half. The same is true of the NAD integrated that preceded it.

Just not the best performance available at the time if that makes any difference.
 
Last edited:
I have a few hobbies, and audio may be the least expensive. We all have different priorities. I won't count HT, since that's really my wife's domain.

My "main system" cost me roughly $2200 including a $200 cart, about $600 into the TT, $300 CD player, $350 for the amp, $325 for the pre, and $400 for the speakers. Speakers were steals, but everything else was near market price and almost all of it is vintage gear. Compared to a lot of folks, that's beans. Media was collected over 45 years or so.

All of my gear except speakers and carts is shown in my sig. That's it.

Useless cars, guitars and amps, fishing and shooting hobbies all outweigh the audio hobby by quite a bit.
 
bobins08 said:
Figuring I would eventually restore it, play it, and then sell it for a profit and move on. The plan was to take the profits and move up the chain. That only half worked. I restored some of it, played most of it a little bit, and sold only a little of it.

I lost track of how much I've invested although I am sure I could estimate it and document it if I wanted to. It does not matter much to me. This is my hobby and I feel I do not spend anywhere near excessive amounts on equipment relative to my income. No worries or buyers remorse.
Before I retire I want to build up two systems that am happy to stay with for a long time and get rid of everything else that is in storage and not used.
Click to expand...

Ha. Nice try.
I restored all of it, played all of it ONLY a little bit and have sold almost none of it.
All I have to do is walk into 3 rooms, and add.
I have two more at a fellow AK'er' s house. Under the knife. Has to be done.
At 64 I have one good ear left.
I lay awake nights.
 
Last edited:
I’ve been tracking my purchases and costs vs the gear I have sold in an excel spreadsheet since close to the beginning of when I got back into this hobby about 8 years ago. I’m guessing my spreadsheet is missing about $1000 of gear I didn’t track. I am already above what I spent without selling anything. I keep the spreadsheet for three purposes. To know what I’ve been buying and selling for, see how close my initial estimate is to the selling price, and so my wife and kids will know what the stuff I have is worth, if they ever decide to liquidate it after I’m gone. I want them to benefit. My only regret is that I didn’t track the date of purchase and sale. I could have gotten some decent stats from that. My spreadsheet has 409 entries.

As to where my gear is, I’m quite happy with it. I am only finding minor changes now when I upgrade. I’m looking for a Sota or something of that ilk, just to hear. I’m happy with the path I’ve taken to get here too, as I’ve met a lot of good people, and I’ve tried and saved a lot of gear! And I’ve learned a lot, and I’ve got lots more to learn.

What’s not to like?
 
4-2-7 said:
Production runs of very good power amps and preamps will be out for around 8-10 years. All the while the MSRP changes every two years, this can be high like $500 on $5000,$6000 amps.

So lets say I bought a MC275 new for $5000 five years ago, the same amp used at the time was going for $4000 in mint shape and all packaging. If I bought used I would have a savings of around $1500 because I also would not have the $500 tax in my state. Fast forwards 5-6 years, mac has the amp at $6500 MSRP, it might even be more after the first of the year. But anyway I can price my mint used MC275 in the $5000 area today and have it sell because there is a really good savings compared to buying new. However I was able to enjoy it for over 5 years of basically free service.
Click to expand...

E-Stat said:
Right. The same is true of many brands when you buy used after the original buyer's heavy depreciation has already taken its toll.
Click to expand...

No I was talking about current production and buying new full retail. I just looked on eBay at completed listings for the MC275 Mk VI, that's currently sold new and has been for around 7-8 years now. Common price used is $4500 and one sold for $5500 today. I think the last couple of years it's been selling new for $6000, and they where $5000 new five years ago when I bought mine. So the average is $500-$900 higher buying used today than it was 5 years ago as I stated above. I remember after buying mine new, used was $3200- $4000 and the mid point was the common price about $3700-$3900. After the first of the year mac is having a price increase, for my amp it will be at least another $500 higher. so the used amp price will again move up another $500 for used.

If you have something like this thats currently sold, people will buy your mint used amp for around $1500 less than new. In other words my two 6 year old MC 275s will sell at the price I paid for them new full retail, minus the tax. I might have to wait two more years to get all my money back.

But my point is that used current model Mac amps closely follow the MSRP on new amps over the 8-10 run of that specific amp. So if you bought in at the start of the amps run, between inflation and mac jacking up the MSRP you can break even.
 
Last edited:
None of the components in my system, including the speakers, worked when I got them.

I have a total of about $90.00 invested in speakers and about $200.00 in both of the Marantz receivers.

My Klipsch KG 2.5s and SW-10 ii, Onkyo CD player and Dual 1019 were all free.

None of what I have is really valuable but it would definitely cost more to replace than what I have spent.
 
luvvinvinyl said:
Between buying gear at considerably under 'market price', appreciation, and the cost of replacing software, I was stunned by the total worth. If only 1,000 of my purchased-new records, are now trading at $100 or more, as indicated by 20 out of 20 in my sample, that's $100,000+. USD. That doesn't even talk about the rest of the software collection, plus all the gear.
Click to expand...

Remember that thread I started around a year ago. I was letting members know they might want to look at the value of some of their records. A record you'v had for ten year and maybe paid $8 for it could be $300. So one might want to take better care of it, maybe sell it but at least you know it's not just a cup of coffee anymore. Ernie, look up some of the records you have that might have been pressed in the 90s & 2000s. If you have any original U2 albums through this time they are all over $100 and most $175-$300. This is the time period when CDs took over and prior to a resurgence, most records pressed are rare. Even records that where pressed the past 9-10 years and are out of print can double over the price bought new. They would do small runs of 5000 or less, making them rare. Any DCC Audio Fidelity like this...
https://www.discogs.com/Eagles-Hotel-California/release/4004068
One of the reasons I buy multiple copies of new records is that selling one later can pay for both of them when out of print.
 
Last edited:
An accountant of ours once told me, after I'd asked his accounting advice about a purchase I wanted to make, that some things are simply lifestyle purchases and, if you can afford them, knock yourself out. With audio gear, I've always been a mid-level guy and pretty much anything I've bought was discounted either being used, open box, close-outs, or sales. I have no idea what the total I've spend on audio gear in the past or what I own now but if I like the thing, I keep it. I'm not on the chase for eking out better and better reproduction. I like what I hear now.

If I had to guess what I'm into my 4 systems for, including vinyl, CDs, tapes, and all that goes with it, I'd be surprised if I spent $25k over the last 30 years. I did just buy a new turntable (Technics SL-1210GR) at the discounted price of $1445, shipped and no sales tax from a Musician's Friend sale last week so I might need to bump that number up just a little. But unless I inherit a bunch of money in the near future, what I have will likely be what I have for the rest of my life, save for the occasional purchase of used records and CDs. I get so much more out of listening to music than what I've spent to do so, I find it a pretty inexpensive hobby. Over all these years, it's cost me less than $3 a day.
 
4-2-7 said:
No I was talking about current production and buying new full retail.
Click to expand...
My examples from Audiogon soundly refute that assertion.

4-2-7 said:
But my point is that used current model Mac amps closely follow the MSRP on new amps over the 8-10 run of that specific amp. So if you bought in at the start of the amps run, between inflation and mac jacking up the MSRP you can break even.
Click to expand...
Changes to MSRP have no effect on this equation. It is merely what you paid at the time vs. what its worth today. Obviously, inflation makes the situation worse because today's dollar has less buying power. Since the selling price is in 2018 dollars, I used this calculator to express the purchase price in 2018 dollars. It is remarkably easy to provide more examples. I merely stopped at three.

MC501 - MSRP (2004) $8200 ($11000 adj for inflation) - selling for $5950
MC402 - MSRP (2005) $7000 ($9200 adj for inflation) - selling for $3950
MC452 - MSRP (2012) $7500 ($8350 adj for inflation) - selling for $5999

Believe what you will even when not supported by facts.
 
Last edited:
E-Stat said:
My examples from Audiogon soundly refute that assertion.
Click to expand...

E-Stat said:
MC501 - MSRP (2004) $8200 ($11000 adj for inflation) - selling for $5950
MC402 - MSRP (2005) $7000 ($9200 adj for inflation) - selling for $3950
MC452 - MSRP (2012) $7500 ($8350 adj for inflation) - selling for $5999
Click to expand...

Everything you posted is out of production ie: not current, and Audiogon is not the only market place. You don't own any mac or even care to. I gave you info on what I have seen over the years and what is happening, understand it or not, I don't care. I also don't no why you have adjusted for inflation, that's not macs changing of MSRP over a production run.

Again, when I bought my new MC275 Mk VI around 5 years ago, in a store at full retail it was $5000. At that time the same mint used amp would sell for $3700- $4000.

Today the MC 275 Mk VI sells new for $6000 full retail, the same mint used amp sells for $4700- $5000 +.

At the first of the year Mac is changing the MSRP on it again, most likely to $6500. So the used price will again go up.

C1000, replaced with the C1100, many years ago
MC 601 replaces with the MC611 at the beginning of the year
MC 452 replaced with the MC462 at the beginning of the year
MC501 replaced with the MC 601 in 2009, it's 3 generations old.
MC 402 replaced with the MC 452 in 2009, it's 3 generations old.
 
Last edited:
4-2-7 said:
Everything you posted is out of production ie: not current...
Click to expand...
As is most used stuff. You continue to cherry pick a lone example of a product that was resurrected from the dead like Lazarus.

4-2-7 said:
Eand Audiogon is not the only market place.
Click to expand...
What you find on Ebay is out of production stuff, too.

4-2-7 said:
I also don't no why you have adjusted for inflation, that's not macs changing of MSRP over a production run.
Click to expand...
Let's review your comments again:

"So if you bought in at the start of the amps run, between inflation and mac jacking up the MSRP you can break even."

Yes, when you factor inflation as you suggest, the gap between purchase price and selling price only increases. As with anything you buy. Your assertion is bass ackwards.

Apparently, the lesson is - never buy an amplifier other than the 275 because it will be replaced in time by a newer model and instantly lose resale value! Same is true of preamps.
 
Last edited:
I flip to build my collection. With very rare exception, most of my grails are bought at full market price with flipper dollars.
 
I don't think people who buy a 200 dollar system need to worry much about accounting issues. But those who have spent considerable amounts need to realize that if they have spent in the 6 figure range like one poster mentioned, that same amount invested in the correct markets years ago, would have increased by a considerable amount by now. Remember it wasn't to long ago when the DOW was in the 7000 range. Remember after the crash when some of the major Bank Stocks were a little over a dollar a share, it wasn't long after, less than a decade and they were trading in the 50-60 dollar a share range. Take a 100,000 dollars, invest in that kind of increase and your talking about a return of about 5 million dollars, less the 15% capital gains tax. And actually it would be much more as you investment grows, it increases the rate of growth exponentially.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom