Audio Frequencies Causing Tinnitus

[ScooterMcTav]

Afternoon all,

Since I am surrounded by experienced audio lovers, I had a question I hoped you could help me with.

As someone who's listened avidly to music for 40+ years, and who has gotten more serious about gear over the last few years, my question is if anyone else experiences tinnitus caused by specific frequencies.

This issue has become more acute for me lately, as I have recently acquired a Jolida tube integrated in trade with a fellow hobbyist. It is a "purist's" amp, with no balance or tone controls, only inputs, and a preamp bypass knob.

I first demoed the integrated with a set of MA Silver 8i and found the sound well beyond anything I had heard before. Mainly, I was very impressed with the high level dynamics, vocal presence, and vitality of sound on the upper end of the spectrum. However, I encountered an issue I had when I owned another "purist" integrated, a Musical Fidelity a3.2. The flat sound produced by these integrateds seems very mid-forward to my ears, and eventually causes ringing/tinnitus and listening fatigue, even at reasonable volumes.

So I hooked up an ADC Sound Shaper I had inline to see if I could remove the tinnitus inducing frequencies. Sure enough, dropping the 1, 2, and 4 kHz bandwidths by 2db was enough to remove the frequencies that were disturbing my ears.. Unfortunately, it also removed all of the vocal presence that I thought made the tube integrated something special.

I've also tried doing some equipment matching, and tried five different CD players, and three pairs of speakers. The least offensive sound I can currenly get is using a Yamaha CD player, and a set of Wharfedale Diamond 10.6. Unfortunately, the Wharfedales give up some dynamics in favor of a more relaxed sound - it makes the system more listenable, but the tinnutis-inducing frequencies are still there, just not in the quantities they were with the MAs..

Also of note, the integrated looks to have decent tubes in it - the previous owner had upgraded to Tung Sol 12AX7 pre tubes, Tung Sol 6550 output tubes, and what looks to be some NOS GE 6201 driver tubes. He also had a set of JJ EL34 I rolled in and out over the weekend - they also seemed to produce less tinnutis-indusing frequencies, but also provided less overall articulation and dynamic range compared to the 6550s.

So in short, I love the music with the mid detail and presence, but it fires up my tinnitus, even at lower volumes. Has anyone encountered a similar issue, and what did you do to combat it? I really want to find a way to make this integrated work for me.

 

[Superampman]

If you know what bandwidths disturb you, then you know what bandwidths your hearing loss is centered around. You'll recognize them with certain music that aggravates it. Eventually, it will escalate to certain parts of all the music you listen to. For me it was the Stones initially. So that music is extremely fatiguing to me now, other music progressively less irritating(temper this with spl adjustment). Just a naturally progressing wear and tear on the finite capabilities of flesh and blood. It's speed is dependent on the level of abuse. What to do? Unfortunately, you're going to have to live with it if your not willing to eliminate/temper the cause...er, turn it down!

 

[loudnoises]

it might mot be the sound itself, but the reflections off walls and surroundings.

I developed a ring after a particularly loud Rush concert 20+ years ago. While i now am blissfully free of the ringing, i found high-reflective environments (cars, small rooms) were much more likely to bring the ringing out. Dome tweeters also were particularly annoying. Oddly enough, horns never seemed to trigger it as badly. 1k bounces around square hard walled rooms like flubber.

If you can tone the reflections of the suspect frequencies down, you might be able to bring that eq back up.

 

[Alobar]

The frequency of my table saw and a close second would be my chop saw are probably the biggest ones to ring my ears. Nowadays I always put on over the ear protection when I run ANY power equipment.

As for certain frequencies in music setting off tinnitus, I haven't noticed so much, tough to tell but excessive volume in general will set it off, particularly over time. I always pay attention to discomfort level in my ears and adjust volume down when it is noticeable. I seem lately to play music at somewhat less volume and my tinnitus has been less now than in years past.

Take care of your hearing! It's all we have to enjoy this great pastime and hobby with.

 

[MannyE]

CBGBs made sure I would have tinnitus now that my 50th birthday is approaching but I wouldn't trade one second of that wonderful insanity for perfect hearing. I do wish someone had told me about ear plugs when I was sneaking in there as a teenager, and later when I didn't have to sneak in...

These days anything that's loud causes an increase in the ringing the next day.

 

[ScooterMcTav]

If you know what bandwidths disturb you, then you know what bandwidths your hearing loss is centered around. You'll recognize them with certain music that aggravates it. Eventually, it will escalate to certain parts of all the music you listen to. For me it was the Stones initially. So that music is extremely fatiguing to me now, other music progressively less irritating(temper this with spl adjustment). Just a naturally progressing wear and tear on the finite capabilities of flesh and blood. It's speed is dependent on the level of abuse. What to do? Unfortunately, you're going to have to live with it if your not willing to eliminate/temper the cause...er, turn it down!

Hey Superampman,

I think the more disturbing thing about my tinnitus is that I do keep the volume down, yet it can be fired up quite easily. For example, I woke up with it today, and had it fired up a bit by the car radio this AM, which was simply listening to news radio. No metal, no punk, just people talking at a reasonable volume.

So yes, if I was abusing my hearing, then the wear and tear idea makes sense. However, I've been rather gentle on my hearing (yes, a few "crank it up" moments and concerts), but I generally listen to music at reasonable volumes, and seldom use headphones.

it might mot be the sound itself, but the reflections off walls and surroundings.

I developed a ring after a particularly loud Rush concert 20+ years ago. While i now am blissfully free of the ringing, i found high-reflective environments (cars, small rooms) were much more likely to bring the ringing out. Dome tweeters also were particularly annoying. Oddly enough, horns never seemed to trigger it as badly. 1k bounces around square hard walled rooms like flubber.

If you can tone the reflections of the suspect frequencies down, you might be able to bring that eq back up.

This is an interesting comment, as one thing guaranteed to fire up the tinnitus is being in a crowded high relflection area, such as the foyer of our local arena. When it is full of people talking, kids being noisy, etc. I get some of my worst bouts of tinnitus.

The room is open on one side (listening area is 14 x 12 of a 14 x 26 room), and has furniture, carpets, window treatments, and decor, so I believe reflections should be "not bad" in the space. However, I do see experimenting with an armful of blankets one day when the missus isn't around to see if I can tame it a bit.

The frequency of my table saw and a close second would be my chop saw are probably the biggest ones to ring my ears. Nowadays I always put on over the ear protection when I run ANY power equipment.

As for certain frequencies in music setting off tinnitus, I haven't noticed so much, tough to tell but excessive volume in general will set it off, particularly over time. I always pay attention to discomfort level in my ears and adjust volume down when it is noticeable. I seem lately to play music at somewhat less volume and my tinnitus has been less now than in years past.

Take care of your hearing! It's all we have to enjoy this great pastime and hobby with.

Agreed 100% and as mentioned, I am rather cautious when listening to music. However, I do also use chop saws, table saws, and a chainsaw, and I wonder if this has been a contributing factor. Mind you, I only use these infrequently, but no need to needlessly damage my hearing.

CBGBs made sure I would have tinnitus now that my 50th birthday is approaching but I wouldn't trade one second of that wonderful insanity for perfect hearing. I do wish someone had told me about ear plugs when I was sneaking in there as a teenager, and later when I didn't have to sneak in...

These days anything that's loud causes an increase in the ringing the next day.

Geez, wish I had had an opportunity to go to CBGBs. Unfortunately, my tinnitus seems to be a bit more frequency driven than volume driven.

In doing a little more reading, it also appears that tinnitus can be affect by various nutritional deficiencies in the body as well, and that ear health may improve by increasing one's intake of Vitamins A and E, plus Magnesium. In fact, magnesium may be the most important, as it helps regulate active ear nerve activity. Possibly we'll try a few vitamins to see if things perk up a little.

 

[Alobar]

One thing to remember about tinnitus is that it can have multiple causes other than loud sound such as abnormal blood vessels inside the inner ear, earwax buildup, abnormal bone growth in the middle ear, small tumor (ringing in one ear) and a bunch of other things. It is worth having a Dr have a look.

 

[twiiii]

My tinnitus is related to my neck. When it becomes too much of an issue lifting 10 to 20 lb weights above my head will relieve the issue in a few hours, or going to the chiropractor with him manipulating my neck using an activator will give me extended relief. Pull ups work, too. But most the 9 times out of 10 just listening to music will reduce the issue. Times when it doesn't making sure music is not peaky or distorted in the 6 to 8 Khz range helps. Sometimes the tinnitus tracks with the loudness of the music, the louder the music the louder the whistling. So sometimes a quiet room is the best answer.

Now you see why I am very particular about tweeters and I still can hear 17,000 HZ quite easily. Now I have always been picky about tweeters. When I attended WCES shows in Vegas I could walk into a room for 15 seconds and determine if I wanted to stay for further auditioning, or leave immediately. Friends from work could spend a whole day just visiting a few vendors while I could weed out the chaff in a few hours and then return to the good ones for further auditioning. My tinnitus has only been an issue the last 5 years, and tweeters like JBL ring radiators and Mcintosh current tweeter really irritate me. Turn down the treble control 6 to 8 db and I'm fine with the Macs. Apogee panels and the way Magnaplanars distort highs can be very irritating, too. Celestion/B&O tweeters. older Mcintosh (Peerless), Vifa, Snell, Older pre diamond B&W and Magico tweeters and I get along fine. Meyer and professional EV and I don't get along, but Altec and older T35 and T350 EV are OK. Boston, AR, KLH, Jensen, EPI, RTR, and many others it seems to be isolated to and individual design. Bose is a name that brings up a big red flag. Klipsch and I got along pretty well until they started making their own tweeters and using that resonating 18 db/octave crossover with their Heritage series. If I have troubles with tweeters I have a real issue with recording engineers and producers using mics for distant pick=up as close up solo and vocal mics. That 7 db boost built into mics above 6 to 7 kHz is just to much when used at 8 inches.

 

[Spinning45s]

My first thought about ringing when listening is that the volume is too high. A ringing or feeling of fullness in the ear is a sign of hearing damage from the sound being too loud.

As I understand it, tinnitus is mostly caused by a problem with the joint of the jaw. Though, as a previous poster noted, it does have other causes.

 

[dshoaf]

I'm paying for the sins of my youth - primarily playing in bands throughout the 70s - many nights a week at that. While I wouldn't have traded the experience(s), the havoc it has played on my hearing to this day still is there as a reminder. And, that doesn't include the power tools and other affronts to my ear drums in the subsequent decades since like power saws, air compressors, tile chisels, and auto restoration/rallys.

I still play in bands to this day but have had to learn how to avoid the loudest stuff - drummers with worse hearing problems than I have come to mind quickly! They play loud and don't know it. If I'm standing in front of them on stage, I'm dead meat. My ears, even with light ear plugs, will ring the rest of the weekend. Playing in Big Bands (a la Count Basie) hurt, too. As a sax guy, I have to sit in front of both the trombones and trumpets. Its a wonderful experience to play but I pay for it for days later.

You'd expect me, then, to want to play my audio gear at home quietly - and you're right. But I find that high quality playback is the least irritating. That is, I can tell if there's a speaker voice coil rubbing and other forms of distortion easily detected. Perhaps that's because I've been dinking around with audio gear since the 70s but I believe there's a connection to the tinnitus in there.

For me, the tinnitus is a constant ringing in both ears equally, fairly narrow in frequency up about 5 Khz or so. It will become louder after exposures like those cited above. It will tend to fall back to a gentle buzzing after a few days of exposure then just stays there.

Oddly, it isn't affected by good playback gear and source material if turned up to the same dB level I experience standing with the bands I'm in these days. Of course, I'm not doing rock-n-roll like I did when I blew them out in the days of my youth.

Cheers,

David

 

[Alobar]

My tinnitus seems to be mostly in my right ear and is exacerbated by ear wax build up (along with loud noise /music) . I use a few drops of hydrogen peroxide and it knocks out the sensitivity and I get much better clarity (I associate this with higher hearing range, sort of the ear version of flat frequency response) and less ringing too.

A few years ago I went through a bout of vertigo (extreme dizziness when looking upwards) which was probably due to wax in my right ear. It went on for the better part of a year before it sorted itself out. I like to think my right side tinnitus is related to this dizziness but not entirely sure.

 

[ScooterMcTav]

One thing to remember about tinnitus is that it can have multiple causes other than loud sound such as abnormal blood vessels inside the inner ear, earwax buildup, abnormal bone growth in the middle ear, small tumor (ringing in one ear) and a bunch of other things. It is worth having a Dr have a look.

I am of the thought that some of this could be coming from my jaw. When I saw my Dr a few months back, I discussed with her my tinnitus and my TMJ issues - I'm a habitual jaw clencher, and do believe this has had some effect on my tinnitus. That being said, I've done well reducing the amount of "clench" I regularly do, and have noticed that my tinnitus is either there due to no apparent stimulus, or is brought on by certain noises and frequencies. It is not consistent with the constant ringing tinnitus severe TMJ sufferers seem to report, and since I have quit clenching, I seem to have severely reduced the number of jaw cracks I have (maybe one since I last saw the Dr).

My tinnitus is related to my neck. When it becomes too much of an issue lifting 10 to 20 lb weights above my head will relieve the issue in a few hours, or going to the chiropractor with him manipulating my neck using an activator will give me extended relief. Pull ups work, too. But most the 9 times out of 10 just listening to music will reduce the issue. Times when it doesn't making sure music is not peaky or distorted in the 6 to 8 Khz range helps. Sometimes the tinnitus tracks with the loudness of the music, the louder the music the louder the whistling. So sometimes a quiet room is the best answer.

Now you see why I am very particular about tweeters and I still can hear 17,000 HZ quite easily. Now I have always been picky about tweeters. When I attended WCES shows in Vegas I could walk into a room for 15 seconds and determine if I wanted to stay for further auditioning, or leave immediately. Friends from work could spend a whole day just visiting a few vendors while I could weed out the chaff in a few hours and then return to the good ones for further auditioning. My tinnitus has only been an issue the last 5 years, and tweeters like JBL ring radiators and Mcintosh current tweeter really irritate me. Turn down the treble control 6 to 8 db and I'm fine with the Macs. Apogee panels and the way Magnaplanars distort highs can be very irritating, too. Celestion/B&O tweeters. older Mcintosh (Peerless), Vifa, Snell, Older pre diamond B&W and Magico tweeters and I get along fine. Meyer and professional EV and I don't get along, but Altec and older T35 and T350 EV are OK. Boston, AR, KLH, Jensen, EPI, RTR, and many others it seems to be isolated to and individual design. Bose is a name that brings up a big red flag. Klipsch and I got along pretty well until they started making their own tweeters and using that resonating 18 db/octave crossover with their Heritage series. If I have troubles with tweeters I have a real issue with recording engineers and producers using mics for distant pick=up as close up solo and vocal mics. That 7 db boost built into mics above 6 to 7 kHz is just to much when used at 8 inches.

I agree 100% with the whole tweeter thing too. Ususally it takes me no more than a few minutes to make up my mind about a speaker, though I do like to always check the setup etc. to make sure someone hasn't tried to "adjust" something.

That being said, I also find that the challenge I have is as I listed in my original post. I love to hear cymbals decay, and all the textures someone has in their voice. So that fine line between "can listen all day, but lose detail" and "have to be careful about listening fatigue, but oh, the glorious detail" is rather thin. So as much as I thought I'd love the MA/Jolida combo, I knew in my heart of hearts that it would likely be a little too forward for a long term listening session.

And I believe I also suffer from ill effects on recodings with large amounts of dynamic compression on them. To my ears, it sounds like a sort of midrange distortion.

The neck thought is interesting though. I do drive a desk most of the day, and do suffer from excessive neck tension. My massage therapist had offered to do some acupuncture on me (she studied many disciplines) and seems to be able to locate muscles that could be causing tinnitus - I wonder if ther emight be some merit to this.

My first thought about ringing when listening is that the volume is too high. A ringing or feeling of fullness in the ear is a sign of hearing damage from the sound being too loud.

As I understand it, tinnitus is mostly caused by a problem with the joint of the jaw. Though, as a previous poster noted, it does have other causes.

Again, good mention on the jaw, though Tinnitus could come from many sources, including overactive nerve activity in the ears, volume damage, infection damage, etc.

 

[Alobar]

My tinnitus is related to my neck. When it becomes too much of an issue lifting 10 to 20 lb weights above my head will relieve the issue in a few hours, or going to the chiropractor with him manipulating my neck using an activator will give me extended relief. Pull ups work, too. But most the 9 times out of 10 just listening to music will reduce the issue. Times when it doesn't making sure music is not peaky or distorted in the 6 to 8 Khz range helps. Sometimes the tinnitus tracks with the loudness of the music, the louder the music the louder the whistling. So sometimes a quiet room is the best answer.

Now you see why I am very particular about tweeters and I still can hear 17,000 HZ quite easily. Now I have always been picky about tweeters. When I attended WCES shows in Vegas I could walk into a room for 15 seconds and determine if I wanted to stay for further auditioning, or leave immediately. Friends from work could spend a whole day just visiting a few vendors while I could weed out the chaff in a few hours and then return to the good ones for further auditioning. My tinnitus has only been an issue the last 5 years, and tweeters like JBL ring radiators and Mcintosh current tweeter really irritate me. Turn down the treble control 6 to 8 db and I'm fine with the Macs. Apogee panels and the way Magnaplanars distort highs can be very irritating, too. Celestion/B&O tweeters. older Mcintosh (Peerless), Vifa, Snell, Older pre diamond B&W and Magico tweeters and I get along fine. Meyer and professional EV and I don't get along, but Altec and older T35 and T350 EV are OK. Boston, AR, KLH, Jensen, EPI, RTR, and many others it seems to be isolated to and individual design. Bose is a name that brings up a big red flag. Klipsch and I got along pretty well until they started making their own tweeters and using that resonating 18 db/octave crossover with their Heritage series. If I have troubles with tweeters I have a real issue with recording engineers and producers using mics for distant pick=up as close up solo and vocal mics. That 7 db boost built into mics above 6 to 7 kHz is just to much when used at 8 inches.

I had assumed a lot of the ear fatigue and ringing I was experiencing a few years back was from the tweeters, namely the 077's in my JBL L65's. Now I am inclined to say it was from the L65 mid drivers (under 8khz) because I have since moved those 077's into my L200's and don't get nearly the fatigue as with the L65's.

 

[jlh3rd]

Although tinnitus can be caused by other medical issues and some medications, it is mainly caused from exposure to loud noise, not frequency. Depending on the frequency of the noise, it will affect those hearing hair cells responsible for that frequency, but it's loud noise exposure that is the bottom line cause.

 

[quaddriver]

and when your mom used to yell up the stairs 'turn that music down!' you thot she was crazy...

its very easy to conduct your own hearing test and determine where you are deficient and then use a good 10-12 band eq to re-flatten the response curve for you. which is what you should do anyways...

 

[ScooterMcTav]

I had assumed a lot of the ear fatigue and ringing I was experiencing a few years back was from the tweeters, namely the 077's in my JBL L65's. Now I am inclined to say it was from the L65 mid drivers (under 8khz) because I have since moved those 077's into my L200's and don't get nearly the fatigue as with the L65's.

That doesn't sound substantively different than my tinnitus - certainly it's just "there" somedays, while other days, it's not really there until something triggers it, likely noises somewhere in in the 1-4kHz range. I've attempted to see if I can determine what other causes there may be (stress, salt intake, sore neck, etc.) but have not seen a clear correlation between my tinnitus and anything (other than certain frequencies that fire it up).

Although tinnitus can be caused by other medical issues and some medications, it is mainly caused from exposure to loud noise, not frequency. Depending on the frequency of the noise, it will affect those hearing hair cells responsible for that frequency, but it's loud noise exposure that is the bottom line cause.

Funny as my wife recently asked me if I was interested in going to an upcoming Billy Talent or Weezer concert. I said no to both - if fact, I let her know that my days of going to concerts are pretty much over unless it is something extremely special. The two-day ringing after a concert just isn't cool anymore.

That being said, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been more of less careful with my hearing my entire life, especially as I do have extremely sensitive hearing, and am very sensitive to distortion. Some items are:
- Ever had a loud stereo? Not until my 30s, and it is rarely played at earth shaking volumes, and never for any duration.
- Ever used headphones? Yes, I had an assortment of cassette walkmans between 1986 and 1990, always had on-ear headphones, and never listened extremely loud as the headphones broke up and distorted too easily
- Ever used in-ear headphones? I occasionally used a set of Sony in-ear headphones to listen to music while falling asleep. Again, volumes were kept at moderate levels.
- See live music? I have probably been to 15 concerts in my life, all of which have been too loud.

So this is what befuddles me a bit. I have not been abusive of my hearing, I've become even more careful since moving into my 40's, and my tinnitus set in without any specific external stimulus. That is what led me to ask my initial question.

and when your mom used to yell up the stairs 'turn that music down!' you thot she was crazy...

its very easy to conduct your own hearing test and determine where you are deficient and then use a good 10-12 band eq to re-flatten the response curve for you. which is what you should do anyways...

I'll go do the self-hearing test, but I am trying to avoid the EQ. Let me share a story with you:

Back in the early-mid 2000's, I was getting a bit more serious about audio, and even bought my first "real" high-current receiver, an H/K AVR230. Although it was adequate as a surround receiver, it was super as a two-channel stereo amp. Rich H/K tone, with smooth, effortless, distortion-free power.

Unfortunately, the acquisition of said receiver meant that I needed better speakers than my big bookshelf "Quest" speakers I had picked up at Future Shop (now Best Buy Canada).

They really were not that bad (especially considering I paid $75/pair new for them), but they certainly were not the most defined or articulate of speakers.

So at FS, I looked at JBLs (E30) and Athena (AS-B2) both of which were good for the budget-restricted budding stereo builder. Although I slightly preferred the clarity of the JBL's titanium tweeter and the generous bass from its front port, the Athenas went on sale for 1/2 the price of the JBLs so came home. I ended up building a complete Athena surround system over the next few years, and they proved to be excellent all around speakers.

However, like most audio fiends, I have a hard time going by any stereo store without taking a peek in. And one day, I ended up in Visions (another more warehouse-y Canadian mass electronics retailer), and noticed a bunch of people sitting in a sound room listening to a Diana Krall DVD. Of course I had to go see what was so special.

Well I was pleased to see the receiver was a close H/K relative of mine (maybe an AVR 330), but what impressed me was the clarity, sharpness, and immediacy of the vocals. It was something I had never heard before, and was a quality that made the music vibrant and enveloping. You know, those magic moments when your brain shuts out everything except what you are listening to/looking at. So, the main difference needed to be the speakers. What did I see?

For those who are unfamiliar with them, these are Dahlquist QX-7a, produced during the brief Canadian Dahlquist revival in the late 90s/early 00s. At the point I heard them, either the line was being discontinued, or the Candian parent company went belly up. And although they were 50% off as clearance items, they were beyond my means at the time.

So since this brief audition, I have always had this impression in the back of my head - it wasn't that I could remember specifically how this setup sounded, but I can remember the way it made me feel. And over the last 15 years I have been in search of this feeling again.

When moving last year (first time moving in 17 years) I decided to narrow down my vast and wide accumulation of stuff I'd had. I also decided to sell some other collectibles I had acquired, and invent the money in my first "audiophile" grade system, all in search of this elusive feeling. So, I acquired a used Musical Fidelity a3.2 integrated. I picked up some used Soililoquy 6.2s. And when paired up together in my home, they sounded bass-shy, harsh, and horrible. So back to the world of classifieds, Canuck Audio Mart, and other various online swap and sell sites to see if I could ramp up my audio experience.

And I did have improvement - I traded the MF for a Mc MA-6100 and found the sound much more preferable to my ears. This improved even further with the additional of a Rotel power amp, using the Mc as a pre. This was even further improved by using a Luxman R-1050 for my main power, especially as it got along so well with the Soliloquys.

For speakers, I rotated through the Soliloquys, some Wharfedale Diamond 10.6, and some Monitor Audio RX-1s. Loved the MAs, but not enough punch for the space. These were then traded for a set of MA Silver 8i, which when combined with the Luxman, almost had me to the sound I had been chasing for over 15 years. I was close, and thought a change to the power might be the key.

So the deposed MA-6100 went up on CAM, looking to be traded (for at least a demo period) with another enthusiast who decided tubes weren't for them, and who would consider trading a tube amp for the Mc. Lo and behold, someone local had a Jolida JD-302BRC available, with upgraded tubes, and they too were looking for something different than what they had. So the Jolida come to my place, the Mc went to his, and I am just waiting for him to decide if he'd like to make the trade permanent. I'm thinking the odds of this happening are 99%.

Regardless, from the very first note that came out of the Jolida and MA combo, I had found it. Clarity, dimension, air, sharpness, articulation. An even better feeling than what I received from that brief listening room session 15 years ago. And unfortunately, tinnitus, even at reasonable volumes.

So I did throw an EQ inline (a decent ADC Sound Shaper 110 Mk II) to see if I could tame down the irritating frequencies. And I was certainly able to, with a modest 2-4db dip on the 1, 2, and 4 kHz sliders. It helped my ears for sure.

And all the magic disappeared from the music. Even my wife noticed, asking "Why doesn't it sound like the singer is right here, like it did the other day?"

I also tried my Wharfedale Diamond 10.6s - the silk dome tweeter rolls off the harshness a little more, but now makes things a little too laid back. The presence is there, but not quite as present as it was with the MAs.

So that (in a large nutshell) is what led to my initial post. I do not want to live without music this defined or articulate. Now that I've heard it this way, I cannot unhear it.

However, I don't want tinnitus every time I listen to my stereo.

So my hope was to see if others had experiences tinnitus from specific frequencies, and if so, how thay managed it. If not, then it becomes more of an issue in addressing my tinnitus overall. And I do sometimes wonder if the tinnitus is always there, but it just becomes more noticeable when I'm listening to music. This is something I'm going to try and track over the next few weeks.

I'm also going to try and identify if certain sources are also more irritating than others. TV? CD? iPhone? Vinyl? Tape (yes, I hooked up an old cassette deck yesterday)? I've shown a sensitivity to distortion caused by dynamic compression, so will likely also need to try a variety of CDs with various compression levels to see if they have an effect.

Thansk again everyone for your input.

 

[loudnoises]

I was that uncool guy wearing earplugs. After that rush concert I learned my lesson. An inordinate amount of flak was given. 20+ years and dozens of shows later, I can still hear over 18k, and it was those little foam plugs that made the difference. Surprisingly, most venues sold them, even back then. Some even gave them for free.

 

[ScooterMcTav]

Just as a follow up, I took some time to do some online hearing tests, and to try and match my tinnitus frequency.

Firstly, from using this really nice online hearing test, I did OK:

http://www.audiocheck.net/testtones_hearingtestaudiogram.php

I appear to have normal hearing from 125Hz to 2kHz (+10dBHL on all), and a slight loss at 4kHz (+15dBHL). However, I was concerned as I needed to go +40dBHL at 8kHz. However, a tinnitus frequency test explained this, as my tinnitus is ringing at 8kHz. So it makes sense why I can't hear the tone until it is louder than my tinnitus. in short, I have a 35-39dB 8kHz test tone in my ears all the time - nice.

Was also happy to hear that I'm good to15 kHz (age standard), though I think the limitations of my desktop speakers, or headphone may have factored in to that test.

So generally speaking (and without the help of an audiologist), my hearing appears to be age standard and undamaged. Question is then, why do I have this damned 8kHz tinnitus?

 

[Bodyblue]

At 50 I have tinnitus and it sucks. Good lord I wish I would not have listened to so much loud music and concerts. My ENT told me one thing NEVER to do anymore is use headphones......of course I bought some a few months ago and after using them for an hour or so it took about 4 hours or so before I could hear at my normal level......so they just sit on my desk now.

I go to an indoor gun range at least once a month and I double up with foam earplugs and my sound activated earmuffs. I shoot my Mosin-Nagant 7.62x54mm in the range and one can see the shock waves go down the range. When I shoot it it takes a while even doubled up to get my full hearing back. Pistols and my wifes Ruger 10/22 are not big deal but the big rifles are damaging.

 

[Riccardo77]

That doesn't sound substantively different than my tinnitus - certainly it's just "there" somedays, while other days, it's not really there until something triggers it, likely noises somewhere in in the 1-4kHz range. I've attempted to see if I can determine what other causes there may be (stress, salt intake, sore neck, etc.) but have not seen a clear correlation between my tinnitus and anything (other than certain frequencies that fire it up).

I have a chance to acquire those exact dahlquist speakers you speak of above in good condition. Not much info on those but excited to hear them based on what you are saying above.



Funny as my wife recently asked me if I was interested in going to an upcoming Billy Talent or Weezer concert. I said no to both - if fact, I let her know that my days of going to concerts are pretty much over unless it is something extremely special. The two-day ringing after a concert just isn't cool anymore.

That being said, as I mentioned in an earlier post, I've been more of less careful with my hearing my entire life, especially as I do have extremely sensitive hearing, and am very sensitive to distortion. Some items are:
- Ever had a loud stereo? Not until my 30s, and it is rarely played at earth shaking volumes, and never for any duration.
- Ever used headphones? Yes, I had an assortment of cassette walkmans between 1986 and 1990, always had on-ear headphones, and never listened extremely loud as the headphones broke up and distorted too easily
- Ever used in-ear headphones? I occasionally used a set of Sony in-ear headphones to listen to music while falling asleep. Again, volumes were kept at moderate levels.
- See live music? I have probably been to 15 concerts in my life, all of which have been too loud.

So this is what befuddles me a bit. I have not been abusive of my hearing, I've become even more careful since moving into my 40's, and my tinnitus set in without any specific external stimulus. That is what led me to ask my initial question.



I'll go do the self-hearing test, but I am trying to avoid the EQ. Let me share a story with you:

Back in the early-mid 2000's, I was getting a bit more serious about audio, and even bought my first "real" high-current receiver, an H/K AVR230. Although it was adequate as a surround receiver, it was super as a two-channel stereo amp. Rich H/K tone, with smooth, effortless, distortion-free power.

Unfortunately, the acquisition of said receiver meant that I needed better speakers than my big bookshelf "Quest" speakers I had picked up at Future Shop (now Best Buy Canada).

They really were not that bad (especially considering I paid $75/pair new for them), but they certainly were not the most defined or articulate of speakers.

So at FS, I looked at JBLs (E30) and Athena (AS-B2) both of which were good for the budget-restricted budding stereo builder. Although I slightly preferred the clarity of the JBL's titanium tweeter and the generous bass from its front port, the Athenas went on sale for 1/2 the price of the JBLs so came home. I ended up building a complete Athena surround system over the next few years, and they proved to be excellent all around speakers.

However, like most audio fiends, I have a hard time going by any stereo store without taking a peek in. And one day, I ended up in Visions (another more warehouse-y Canadian mass electronics retailer), and noticed a bunch of people sitting in a sound room listening to a Diana Krall DVD. Of course I had to go see what was so special.

Well I was pleased to see the receiver was a close H/K relative of mine (maybe an AVR 330), but what impressed me was the clarity, sharpness, and immediacy of the vocals. It was something I had never heard before, and was a quality that made the music vibrant and enveloping. You know, those magic moments when your brain shuts out everything except what you are listening to/looking at. So, the main difference needed to be the speakers. What did I see?

For those who are unfamiliar with them, these are Dahlquist QX-7a, produced during the brief Canadian Dahlquist revival in the late 90s/early 00s. At the point I heard them, either the line was being discontinued, or the Candian parent company went belly up. And although they were 50% off as clearance items, they were beyond my means at the time.

So since this brief audition, I have always had this impression in the back of my head - it wasn't that I could remember specifically how this setup sounded, but I can remember the way it made me feel. And over the last 15 years I have been in search of this feeling again.

When moving last year (first time moving in 17 years) I decided to narrow down my vast and wide accumulation of stuff I'd had. I also decided to sell some other collectibles I had acquired, and invent the money in my first "audiophile" grade system, all in search of this elusive feeling. So, I acquired a used Musical Fidelity a3.2 integrated. I picked up some used Soililoquy 6.2s. And when paired up together in my home, they sounded bass-shy, harsh, and horrible. So back to the world of classifieds, Canuck Audio Mart, and other various online swap and sell sites to see if I could ramp up my audio experience.

And I did have improvement - I traded the MF for a Mc MA-6100 and found the sound much more preferable to my ears. This improved even further with the additional of a Rotel power amp, using the Mc as a pre. This was even further improved by using a Luxman R-1050 for my main power, especially as it got along so well with the Soliloquys.

For speakers, I rotated through the Soliloquys, some Wharfedale Diamond 10.6, and some Monitor Audio RX-1s. Loved the MAs, but not enough punch for the space. These were then traded for a set of MA Silver 8i, which when combined with the Luxman, almost had me to the sound I had been chasing for over 15 years. I was close, and thought a change to the power might be the key.

So the deposed MA-6100 went up on CAM, looking to be traded (for at least a demo period) with another enthusiast who decided tubes weren't for them, and who would consider trading a tube amp for the Mc. Lo and behold, someone local had a Jolida JD-302BRC available, with upgraded tubes, and they too were looking for something different than what they had. So the Jolida come to my place, the Mc went to his, and I am just waiting for him to decide if he'd like to make the trade permanent. I'm thinking the odds of this happening are 99%.

Regardless, from the very first note that came out of the Jolida and MA combo, I had found it. Clarity, dimension, air, sharpness, articulation. An even better feeling than what I received from that brief listening room session 15 years ago. And unfortunately, tinnitus, even at reasonable volumes.

So I did throw an EQ inline (a decent ADC Sound Shaper 110 Mk II) to see if I could tame down the irritating frequencies. And I was certainly able to, with a modest 2-4db dip on the 1, 2, and 4 kHz sliders. It helped my ears for sure.

And all the magic disappeared from the music. Even my wife noticed, asking "Why doesn't it sound like the singer is right here, like it did the other day?"

I also tried my Wharfedale Diamond 10.6s - the silk dome tweeter rolls off the harshness a little more, but now makes things a little too laid back. The presence is there, but not quite as present as it was with the MAs.

So that (in a large nutshell) is what led to my initial post. I do not want to live without music this defined or articulate. Now that I've heard it this way, I cannot unhear it.

However, I don't want tinnitus every time I listen to my stereo.

So my hope was to see if others had experiences tinnitus from specific frequencies, and if so, how thay managed it. If not, then it becomes more of an issue in addressing my tinnitus overall. And I do sometimes wonder if the tinnitus is always there, but it just becomes more noticeable when I'm listening to music. This is something I'm going to try and track over the next few weeks.

I'm also going to try and identify if certain sources are also more irritating than others. TV? CD? iPhone? Vinyl? Tape (yes, I hooked up an old cassette deck yesterday)? I've shown a sensitivity to distortion caused by dynamic compression, so will likely also need to try a variety of CDs with various compression levels to see if they have an effect.

Thansk again everyone for your input.