Audiophile Home Theater room

[Art K.]

That Vandersteen sub is one of the most musical around. Personally, I really love the neutral and understated sound of Vandersteen speakers. They aren't show off speakers however they get all of the fundamentals of music just right. Hopefully that Integra works well with them...nice setup, Heather. Enjoy!

 

[hjames]

Watched News, Breaking Bad, and a bit more of Green Lantern.
Followed that up with a spot of music - the Art of Noise - The Seduction of Claude Debussy - Dreaming in Colour
exceptional! I'll have play some more music tomorrow after work.
We retire early - 5Am comes quickly and there's always tomorrow ...

But Teddy the cat approves!

 

[Art K.]

Ay Caramba!

 

[slippers-on]

Looks like you had a Threshold amp sitting there....I hope you kept that?

 

[hjames]

Looks like you had a Threshold amp sitting there....I hope you kept that?

I have an Hk Citation 22 I used to use as a sub amp with the various JBL subs I've had - I plan to keep that.
I had an Adcom GFA-545 vII that is since sold, and an Adcom GFA 2535 3/4 channel amp that's acting up.
I have a pair of Adcom GFA-555 - and have a local buyer for them sometime next month.
I've never had a Threshold - but the GFA-555s are the original Nelson Pass design ...

 

[hjames]

Updated pix - still making final determinations on the sub ... its not like other subs - does NOT connect to the .1 LFE channel on the system, it basically slaves on the front mains and has an external crossover that you dial in to match the power amps input impedance ...

But I rearranged it to go in the right corner for max bass ...

As I keep saying still have cleanup in process -
and that carpet HAS to go!

... but right now, its about the music -

before ... Art of Noise - Claude Debussy
now ... ... Bill Evans - Quintessence

 

[slippers-on]

Yes, I am not afraid to use the A-word!!

Anyway, my home theater room room has evolved a lot over a 6 year period. I started with a Philips CRT HDTV and some old 4320 JBLs. They eveolved through a couple upgrades and moved upstairs when I got some JBL 4341 Studio Monitors and put them upfront as mains. I got a pair of JBL L20T speakers and ceiling mounted them as rear surrounds tried a cheap Sony (BestBuy) sub, but replaced it when I found a JBL B380 15" passive sub.
For electronics I started with a a low power HK AVR, went through a few of those and wound up with the (then) top of the line Hk AVR7300 - which turned out to be an unstable Piece Of Junk. I tried biamping the 4341 monitors with various JBL/UREI active crossovers and settled on an Ashly piece.
For amps, again, once I went to biamp I pulled front mains off the HK receiver and used JBL/UREI 6230 and 6260 pro amps. Tried some other stuff, and wound up with a pair of Adcom GFA-555s (not IIs). I'd found an HK Citation 22 that I bridge to run the sub with ... something like 600w.
I later added a pair of JBL L100T (with T3 crossovers) for side surrounds,
and got a modern JBL LC2 for center channel ... Got an Adcom 2535 3/4 channel amp for the center & rear channels, and an Adcom 545 for the sides

When the AVR73200 blew I got a Yamaha AVR for a standby, then bought a used Integra PreProcessor ... and an Oppo BDP-93 finished the system.

Yep, it was an Altar of Audiophilia - overkill for the small room.

Since December I decided to uncomplicate all of this stuff - sold off the B-380 sub but replaced it with a JBL 4641 Pro sub!

I kept reading about Time Frame speakers here so I found and bought an inexpensive pair of DCM TimeFrame speakers (TF500s) and loved the sound and the thin box dimensions. Collected more, TF600, then TF400, found some TF700s, and then a pair of TF1000s ... even got a pair of TimePiece "satellite" speakers - so I could use one of them as a center ...

Then i got serious ... Sold off the L100Ts, and the 4341 monitors. Tore down the biamp rack and found a Salamander Audio cabinet at a yard sale for under $200 ... Sold off the Scan Teak rack I'd had for nearly 30 years, and thinned the amps and gear.

Wound up setting the room up as a DCM TimeFrame HT system ... TF1000s as front mains on one Adcom 555,
TF600s as side surrounds, and the TF400s as rear surround. Moved the JBL L20Ts up to my office (nice!)
Put a TimePiece in the center and the tonality was nice and it could play loud enough for us ... great!

In the second picture.. That big silver amp...that is the one that looks like a Threshold Stasis amp. No? kindly tell me which amp is that please?

 

[hjames]

Perhaps you mean these amps? Both are Adcom GFA-555 - but one is an early vintage

I had them out of the rack and just piled up in the second photo above -
the older Adcom has the flat handles and is more a gun metal grey colour -
(But maybe the camera flash made it look more like silver?) ...
The newer Adcoms are painted black & have shallow fins on the face panel.

In addition, in that photo I had an Adcom 2535 (2x60w and 1 x120w) as well as an Adcom GFA-545-II in the system ...

I have simplified GREATLY since then. The Elan Z660 is now running 4x60w (sides and rear surrounds) and a single 120w for the center.
And without the biamping of the old JBL Monitors, the B&K amp handles the two front mains just fine.

 

[slippers-on]

Perhaps you mean these amps? Both are Adcom GFA-555 - but one is an early vintage

I had them out of the rack and just piled up in the second photo above -
the older Adcom has the flat handles and is more a gun metal grey colour -
(But maybe the camera flash made it look more like silver?) ...
The newer Adcoms are painted black & have shallow fins on the face panel.

In addition, in that photo I had an Adcom 2535 (2x60w and 1 x120w) as well as an Adcom GFA-545-II in the system ...

I have simplified GREATLY since then. The Elan Z660 is now running 4x60w (sides and rear surrounds) and a single 120w for the center.
And without the biamping of the old JBL Monitors, the B&K amp handles the two front mains just fine.

Oh Ok....it kinda looks just like this Threshold only yours has black handles

 

[stereofanboy]

Each subsequent picture looks a little better than the one before, so you must be moving in the right direction.

 

[hjames]

Well, the SOUND keeps getting better at least ...
it just takes a while to train my ears so I can go to the next stage ...

 

[hjames]

The vandersteen sub didn't add any significant bass to the system.
Was it bad, or too old? I don't know - sent back to the vendor.

But I decided to try another tangent with that big (ugly) black industrial JBL 4641 18 inch subwoofer.

Spouse liked the wood topped speaker look of the Vandersteens (and the DCM TimeFrames before them) So - I laid the sub on its side - laid a piece of IKEA shelving over the top. and wrapped it with the only speaker cloth I had laying around. If its a go I'll get some black cloth like the Vandersteens and fully wrap it - this is just a test.

 

[Poultrygeist]

Bedroom 5.1 Class D and 2.0 SET Frugal Horn System

 

[Putterman]

The vandersteen sub didn't add any significant bass to the system.

It probably wasn't a bad (sub), but rather you have a problem with bass cancellation and standing waves. The corner position it's in is noted for best bass reinforcement, but also the most bass cancellation or excessive reinforcement depending on your seating position.

The simplest solution is to move the sub. One rule of thumb is place the sub in your listening position and move around the room until your hear good bass and that's where the sub should be placed or you could just move the sub to good (i.e. aesthetically pleasing ) locations until you like the bass better and/or you could also allow the speakers to run full range and that might improve bass.

Another solution is to use multiple subs. Google Todd Welti of Infinity who ran simulations and actual placement of multiple subs to determine with gave the best distributed bass. His results (http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Technologyleadership/Documents/White Papers/multsubs.pdf) indicated 4 subs at the corners or midpoints of a room gave the best distributed bass, but that 2 subs (more practical and cheaper) at opposite ends of the room gave almost as good bass distribution and better bass reinforcement.

 

[hjames]

Thanks - but the JBL 4641 sub DOES add much bass while in that corner position.
I had tried the Vandy Bass in the middle of that wall where the JBL sub used to live,
then moved it into the corner hoping to get some room gain to improve it -
neither position helped it. But the JBL sub worked fine midway down the wall,
and is also working fine side firing while on its side. So both those positions work fine for the JBL 4641 sub,
but did not work fine for the Vandy.

Since both speakers were tried in the same 2 positions, and the JBL worked fine in both,
but the Vandy didn't work in either, perhaps the problem was something to do with the Vandy sub?

Whatever it was, it went back for a refund and is out of the system now.

I've decided that since the JBL sub has plenty of bass with an old HK Citation 22 in Mono mode,
I'll stick with that. I've got the sub set for 5dB down in the Integra level settings ...

The vandersteen sub didn't add any significant bass to the system.

It probably wasn't a bad (sub), but rather you have a problem with bass cancellation and standing waves. The corner position it's in is noted for best bass reinforcement, but also the most bass cancellation or excessive reinforcement depending on your seating position.

The simplest solution is to move the sub. One rule of thumb is place the sub in your listening position and move around the room until your hear good bass and that's where the sub should be placed or you could just move the sub to good (i.e. aesthetically pleasing ) locations until you like the bass better and/or you could also allow the speakers to run full range and that might improve bass.

Another solution is to use multiple subs. Google Todd Welti of Infinity who ran simulations and actual placement of multiple subs to determine with gave the best distributed bass. His results (http://www.harman.com/EN-US/OurCompany/Technologyleadership/Documents/White Papers/multsubs.pdf) indicated 4 subs at the corners or midpoints of a room gave the best distributed bass, but that 2 subs (more practical and cheaper) at opposite ends of the room gave almost as good bass distribution and better bass reinforcement.

 

[Putterman]

Thanks - but the JBL 4641 sub DOES add much bass while in that corner position.
I had tried the Vandy Bass in the middle of that wall where the JBL sub used to live, then moved it into the corner hoping to get some room gain to improve it - neither position helped it. But the JBL sub worked fine midway down the wall, and is also working fine side firing while on its side. So both those positions work fine for the JBL 4641 sub, but did not work fine for the Vandy.
Since both speakers were tried in the same 2 positions, and the JBL worked fine in both, but the Vandy didn't work in either, perhaps the problem was something to do with the Vandy sub?




No doubt you're right. Sorry if I came off as kind of snotty. Many posts in this forum are from novices who are just getting started.

I'm still a fan of multiple subs. Also I assumed you've used the Audyssey pro software in your Integra preamp which, among other things, is designed to ameliorate standing wave issues.

 

[hjames]

Putterman - I didn't take you as snooty ...
hopefully I didn't come off as too harsh either.
You're right, there are all kinds of skill levels on the site.

Last time I tried the Audyssey software it made a mess of things ...
but that was with the original mixed JBL system, before I tried the DCM timeframes,
and before the current Vandersteens & TF600 combo.

I've still got the Audyssey mic on a silver tripod in the left rear corner -
All I have to do is stand it up, plug it in and let it run.
Maybe I'll try it again over the weekend ...

 

[hjames]

Tried using black cloth to wrap the sub instead -
I think it looks tons better than the beige cloth did, and you??

 

[Stewart]

I just went through the thread... Looks like your system has come a long way. The thinning out made the room so much better. And yes I agree the black cloth and wood on the sub look really nice. I like it when most of the components of a system match. All of the wood looks to be around the same color also, so that's nice as well.

 

[hjames]

Went through another upgrade - got a nice Sharp LC-70LE640U HDTV via Costco Thursday,
and used the Spears & Munsil Bluray setup disc in the OPPO to get it at its peak yesterday.
Here is a freezeframe from our TIVOHD from an older 60 Minutes TV show about African Lions -
I kept for a bit 'cause our Himalayan likes to see big cats on TV - he he he.

The size is a nice match for the Salamander console got from a local yardsale last summer!

We watched the bluray of Skyfall last night - there is a scene where they blow up the castle -
and I realized the HK amp for the sub was peaking - and it was just right!!
Darned close to perfect about now!