AutoReverse opinions?

[Anubis]

Yes, there are usually azimuth issues with auto-reverse decks be it slight or heavy.
Then there's the Nak RX-202 that solved that problem. It is one of the best auto-reverse decks ever made in my opinion. Not only does it solve any azimuth issues by flipping the entire cassette over, but you get to watch the show as well (provided you don't blink). IT's also one of the best sounding 2-head decks ever. I use mine for playback only and have not tried recording on it, so I can't speak to that, but I hear it's a good recorder.

 

[Lapis]

Corrections

Yes, there are usually azimuth issues with auto-reverse decks be it slight or heavy.
Then there's the Nak RX-202 that solved that problem. It is one of the best auto-reverse decks ever made in my opinion. Not only does it solve any azimuth issues by flipping the entire cassette over, but you get to watch the show as well (provided you don't blink). IT's also one of the best sounding 2-head decks ever. I use mine for playback only and have not tried recording on it, so I can't speak to that, but I hear it's a good recorder.

That is not correct, only the 4 channel heads does NOT go out of alignment. I said that because Nakamichi Dragon uses that type of auto reverse head.

 

[Anubis]

That is not correct, only the 4 channel heads does NOT go out of alignment. I said that because Nakamichi Dragon uses that type of auto reverse head.

What? 4-channel heads? In reading the manual on the RX-202 of course it doesn't say anything about the actual heads going out of alignment or not, but it does clearly state that the azimuth issue is resolved by the mechanism design. As far as I understood "azimuth" is head alignment which I guess is why it can be adjusted by techs. (make that used to be adjusted by techs with the right tools, these days nobody works on tape decks due to lack of said tools and such).
I was just answering to the part about sound quality if you will. You know how it sounds different going in one direction over the other usually worse in the other and such.
Please educate me further on your statement for my edification. I would just like to know.
Thank you.

 

[Lapis]

What? 4-channel heads? In reading the manual on the RX-202 of course it doesn't say anything about the actual heads going out of alignment or not, but it does clearly state that the azimuth issue is resolved by the mechanism design. As far as I understood "azimuth" is head alignment which I guess is why it can be adjusted by techs. (make that used to be adjusted by techs with the right tools, these days nobody works on tape decks due to lack of said tools and such).
I was just answering to the part about sound quality if you will. You know how it sounds different going in one direction over the other usually worse in the other and such.
Please educate me further on your statement for my edification. I would just like to know.
Thank you.

Hi,

The direction of the tape will or can sound different on a rotating head design (if the auto reverse is used many times). I have ever experience this on a boombox which is a Philips AZ8304 which has 2 cassette decks (one record/play deck and one play only deck). The play deck has an auto reverse which uses the rotating head. I used to use this auto reverse function many, many times and slowly it knocks out of proper azimuth. (which results in a dulled sound). The worst thing is that it doesn't have any access to the azimuth screw (which I presume that it needs to be disassembled) which I never disassemble the unit. So I just leave it alone. The record/play deck does not have auto reverse (rotate version), so I just use the record/play deck only.

Nakamichi is not actually the first company which did this.

 

[Anubis]

Hi,

The direction of the tape will or can sound different on a rotating head design (if the auto reverse is used many times). I have ever experience this on a boombox which is a Philips AZ8304 which has 2 cassette decks (one record/play and one play. The play deck has an auto reverse which uses the rotating head. I used to use this auto reverse function Many, many times and slowly it knocks out of alignment. (which results in a dulled sound). I will tell you more of this story at another post.
Nakamichi is not actually the first company which did this

I guess I'm a little confused because the head on the RX-202 does not rotate, the whole cassette does while the head stays fixed. I did not know that Nak was not the first company to do that. That's interesting. I wonder who was? I know the dulled sound because my Kenwood deck rotates the head.

 

[Lapis]

I guess I'm a little confused because the head on the RX-202 does not rotate, the whole cassette does while the head stays fixed. I did not know that Nak was not the first company to do that. That's interesting. I wonder who was? I know the dulled sound because my Kenwood deck rotates the head.

The first company to have auto reverse like Nakamichi was Philips and Akai. It is these 2 images. These are from tapeheads.net (no-auto reverse).

 

[steerpike2]

Speaking about the Teac V95-RX, a four-track stationary head machine I've had since 1982: This machine is not very good; it is impossible to get forward AND reverse azimuth right. You've got to pick one to be correct and just live with the other one being off. The problem is the tape itself shifts in position and skew as it traverses the tape path in the reverse direction. That is why the Nakamichi works, it rotates the cassette so the transport itself is unidirectional.
The rotating heads in theory are better than 4 channel heads because they can offer two separate azimuth settings - one for each head orientation.
Another problem with the Teac V95 is flux bleed between the parallel magnetic paths in the head itself - you hear the other direction track quietly played in reverse.

 

[Lapis]

Speaking about the Teac V95-RX, a four-track stationary head machine I've had since 1982: This machine is not very good; it is impossible to get forward AND reverse azimuth right. You've got to pick one to be correct and just live with the other one being off. The problem is the tape itself shifts in position and skew as it traverses the tape path in the reverse direction. That is why the Nakamichi works, it rotates the cassette so the transport itself is unidirectional.
The rotating heads in theory are better than 4 channel heads because they can offer two separate azimuth settings - one for each head orientation.
Another problem with the Teac V95 is flux bleed between the parallel magnetic paths in the head itself - you hear the other direction track quietly played in reverse.

You should know that the 4-track head DOES NOT move the head at all. It stays the same. Another good point is that why do you think the NAKAMICHI DRAGON uses the same head as the TEAC V-95RX ?

 

[perryinva]

It does not. Where did you get that from? The Dragon PB head is 6 track, with the right channels each having 2 tracks. What Steerpike says is correct. Reversing tape direction on 4 track head will always yield azimuth error in one direction. The only reason the Dragon does not have this issue is because the NAAC corrects the PB head azimuth in each direction and because of the unique tape guides which rotate to perform a different duty depending on direction. Nak wasn't the first to flip the tape on the RX series, but their approach and results were by far the most elegant and precise. Anyone that says "sounds good for a cassette" hasn't heard a totl Nak. Thats like saying "sounds good for a record" because you heard it on a BSR....

Don't waste your time trying to adjust azimuth on your Dragon. If you don't have the correct gauges and tapes and test gear to do it, AND the experience, it will just get more out of whack. It is not like any other deck out there. Save your money to send it to someone that does these all the time if you want it right.

 

[jameselmer66]

I found a JVC td-w309 dual tape deck at the thrift store a few months back. It has all the bells and whistles; Full Logic, Auto Reverse, Headphone Out, "CompuLink" System Control ·♦· Music Scan, Pitch Control, Dual Digital Counters ·♦· Record Level Meter, High Speed Dub, Record Mute, Mic In ·♦· B NR, C NR, HX Pro (Deck B?), Auto Bias ·♦· 2/1 Heads, 3/3 Motors, 0.08% Wow & Flutter. I dropped the damn thing going out the door. Got it home plugged it in. It came on played for awhile and started doing all kinds of funky stuff so I threw in a corner til last week. I decided to plug it in again and what do ya know it works perfect. There are some tapes IMO sound pretty darn good. I use the autoreverse all the time, just cause I think its cool. But I do notice sometimes most of the sound quality issues come after the tape has been reversed. But hey tapes are a .25 a piece at the thrift store. Cheap way to score some tunes so I can tolerate a little "garble" every now and then. :thmbsp:

 

[steerpike2]

I will add - on the Teac V95-RX....
*IF* you record your cassette on THAT machine, and you record side B in 'reverse' mode, and you always play it back like that, it DOES sound consistently OK (for the cassette format). This is because the same azimuth error is maintained for both sides in both directions - a case of two wrongs making a right.

But the machine generally makes recordings that are incompatible with other cassette decks, and will not play back well - in reverse mode - a cassette made on a deck with correct head alignment
Turn a self-recorded cassette around so side B is facing outwards, and neither side plays back well!

With rotating heads, it is mechanically possible to have different azimuths for each direction, so theoretically both can be set to the correct angle. In practice, cheap & flimsy mechaisms make the long-term reliability poor.

Machines like Sony's 555 had independant record and play heads, with independant azimuth trim screws for each. IF such a design had ever been used for auto-reverse, we might have had a rather good machine in both directions.

 

[persil]

The first company to have auto reverse like Nakamichi was Philips and Akai. It is these 2 images. These are from tapeheads.net (no-auto reverse).

I owned both of these decks when they were introduced, The Philips was known as "the sky slope" would play a number of cassettes in succession, but only one side of each cassette. It was really not a great machine at all and its mech was unreliable. The Akai was another matter, the GXC 65D was a TOTL deck with everything Akai could throw into it! It auto reversed in exactly the same way as the Nak 202, by physically turning the tape over to play or record the other side.so no azimuth problems. I used that Akai until the GX head gave up, I did get a new head and its still inside the box with the deck, and belt kit. May be one day?

 

[uxwbill]

As long as an autoreversing machine is basically "right", I have no complaints with their performance. When I'm using an autoreversing machine, I'm listening for convenience and not the utmost quality. Still, all of mine sound great to me.

I can remember when most autoreversing cassette machines (boomboxes, portables, component decks, etc) used a head that played all eight tracks on a cassette at once. When the direction switched, the active set of heads was simply switched as well. Nothing regarding the head actually moved.

I'm not sure why this method was replaced with decks that had rotating heads. It seemed to me like the "wide" head was all of cheap, reliable and easy to adjust for proper alignment. Maybe I'm missing something?

 

[steerpike2]

I'm not sure why this method was replaced with decks that had rotating heads. It seemed to me like the "wide" head was all of cheap, reliable and easy to adjust for proper alignment. Maybe I'm missing something?

Because, with a rotating head, you can have an independant azimuth adjustment for each direction. Additionally a four-track/channel head has flux bleed between the two 'sides', and you hear the reverse program at a reduced level.

 

[Trance88]

My Yamaha KX-R470 auto reverse deck had azimuth problems initially. One direction would be clear while the other would be slightly muffled. Thankfully, I had access to the azimuth adjustment screws without having to take the unit apart. I just popped in a reliable tape and kept switching it around adjusting the screws until both directions sounded the same.

 

[slow_jazz]

Just another thing to go bad....

 

[steerpike2]

I saw a Sony once that had a 'conventional' two channel head, that it moved in height, exactly as the old 8-track cartridge players used to. Now that is nasty.

 

[Lapis]

Corrections

It does not. Where did you get that from? The Dragon PB head is 6 track, with the right channels each having 2 tracks. What Steerpike says is correct. Reversing tape direction on 4 track head will always yield azimuth error in one direction. The only reason the Dragon does not have this issue is because the NAAC corrects the PB head azimuth in each direction and because of the unique tape guides which rotate to perform a different duty depending on direction. Nak wasn't the first to flip the tape on the RX series, but their approach and results were by far the most elegant and precise. Anyone that says "sounds good for a cassette" hasn't heard a totl Nak. Thats like saying "sounds good for a record" because you heard it on a BSR....

Don't waste your time trying to adjust azimuth on your Dragon. If you don't have the correct gauges and tapes and test gear to do it, AND the experience, it will just get more out of whack. It is not like any other deck out there. Save your money to send it to someone that does these all the time if you want it right.

This explaination is not correct. On a rotating head, it does where as on a stationary head, NO. And you are wrong ! Sony also have this walkman called WM-EX999 that uses 2 seperate heads for forward and reverse play.

 

[jan_stevns]

This explaination is not correct. On a rotating head, it does where as on a stationary head, no.

Am i the only one, not understanding this ??

 

[menchi]

IMHO, If you want auto-reverse, the best way to go is with a Nakamichi UDAR model deck, like the RX-202, 303, and 505 units.

I have the RX-505 myself. I love it. Only way to get auto-reverse, discrete 3-head deck, and no azimuth issues all in one device.