AVID thread

[Dave Sands]

Wow Groovegrinde!! Gordon Miller Music in Baltimore is where I purchased my AVID's back in the mid 70's when I was a teenager. Gordon Miller was considered a high end stereo store at the time. They had a really neat "exchange" program where you had up to 1 year to bring back a pair of AVID's purchased from them and they would give you full price credit towards the purchase of an upgraded model! This was really great for me! My first pair of AVID's were Model 80a and 11 months later I brought them back and traded them up for the newly introduced Model 110's. I'll never forget hearing them in the Gordon Miller demo room.....I was FLOORED at how clean and open they sounded. I still have them to this day and am listening to them right now as I type this post. They still sound absolutely amazing for their size. I love seeing the surprised look on my house-guest's faces when they hear them. I drive them with a 120 wpc Realistic STA-2100 receiver.

I also vividly remember seeing and listening to the AVID 330's at Gordon Miller. They had that same clean open sound of the 110's but with so much more bass. Being a teenager in the 70's with very limited financial resources, I could NEVER afford them, but I made a vow to myself that "someday" I would have a pair of them for my own. Now, so many years later, thanks to the internet and EBAY, I've made good on my vow and now own a very nice pair of both Model 330's and Model 230's to go with my 110's.

Interestingly, I find so much content online about the earlier AVID models 100, 102, 103's, but so very little about the later models like I have. Since you actually worked at AVID during that time, I'd be ABSOLUTELY interested to hear ANY and ALL info you have to offer!!!!!!! Such as....were the later models less popular or offer less quality than the earlier models? Was AVID's heyday already waning, as a business, by the time the newer models came out? If the answer is yes to any of these questions, I'd be dumbfounded because I listened to and compared ALOT of speakers at the time before buying the AVIDS and NOTHING (at least in my price range) could compare....not even close!

Did you ever get a reply to this post? I just saw Audiokarma and subscribed, and then saw the thread on Avid products. I also worked there in the late 70's and saw the transition from a company making Audio-Visual Instructional Devices, )y'know the language lab cassette and speaker combiinations that kids used in high school language labs) to loudspeakers. The earlier series, the 102, 103, etc. all utilized drivers from an outside source, such as Phillips, etc.
The later series, the 110, the 230 and 330s which had unique front grilles to minimize cabinet diffraction, varying thicknesses of particle board for the cabinet resonances were the "minimal diffraction" series and outperformed almost all of the existing "reference" passives out there at the time due to sound shaping of the cabinet and an incredible innovation for the time, the utilization of ferro-fluidics in the coil gap. That innovation served to cool the coil and increase the magnetic field flux in the gap and made the midrange and tweeters insanely efficient. Also, the shape of the mid and high range driver basket coupled with the front grill to present an acoustically smooth, low diffraction surface. As such, these speakers sounded PHENOMINAL and could soak up massive amounts of power for huge SPLs. They also made the low frequency drivers to meet the extended frequency range of the tweeters and designed the X-overs too. Avid also started making a set of 2-ways for automobiles that were amazing, but I don't recall the model. OMG, those were some of the best automotive audio, outperforming Jensen, the industry leader at the time. Avid was On the way up, company morale was super high. Everybody in the company (in East Providence, RI) was super stoked to be on the team. The designer of these technical innovations was a physicist named Moses something or other, he was so inspiring to me that I shifted my field of study from E.E. to physics, and now that I think of it, molded my entire working career; I have studied and implemented acoustics, audio electronics and psychroacoustics for the last 45 years because of a summer spent working at Avid. Wow!

 

[baco99]

Avid 230 for posterity

 

[DonQuixote99]

Did you ever get a reply to this post? I just saw Audiokarma and subscribed, and then saw the thread on Avid products. I also worked there in the late 70's and saw the transition from a company making Audio-Visual Instructional Devices, )y'know the language lab cassette and speaker combiinations that kids used in high school language labs) to loudspeakers. The earlier series, the 102, 103, etc. all utilized drivers from an outside source, such as Phillips, etc.
The later series, the 110, the 230 and 330s which had unique front grilles to minimize cabinet diffraction, varying thicknesses of particle board for the cabinet resonances were the "minimal diffraction" series and outperformed almost all of the existing "reference" passives out there at the time due to sound shaping of the cabinet and an incredible innovation for the time, the utilization of ferro-fluidics in the coil gap. That innovation served to cool the coil and increase the magnetic field flux in the gap and made the midrange and tweeters insanely efficient. Also, the shape of the mid and high range driver basket coupled with the front grill to present an acoustically smooth, low diffraction surface. As such, these speakers sounded PHENOMINAL and could soak up massive amounts of power for huge SPLs. They also made the low frequency drivers to meet the extended frequency range of the tweeters and designed the X-overs too. Avid also started making a set of 2-ways for automobiles that were amazing, but I don't recall the model. OMG, those were some of the best automotive audio, outperforming Jensen, the industry leader at the time. Avid was On the way up, company morale was super high. Everybody in the company (in East Providence, RI) was super stoked to be on the team. The designer of these technical innovations was a physicist named Moses something or other, he was so inspiring to me that I shifted my field of study from E.E. to physics, and now that I think of it, molded my entire working career; I have studied and implemented acoustics, audio electronics and psychroacoustics for the last 45 years because of a summer spent working at Avid. Wow!

Dave, welcome to AK!

With your background, do you recall how Avid 101s were supposed to be set-up, placement-wise? Had a pair for a while but I don't think I ever got it right. Someone else here was saying they we designed for the woofers to fire IN, the left and right pointed at each other, while the tweeter at 90 degrees to them would point toward the room?

 

[Dave Sands]

Dave, welcome to AK!

With your background, do you recall how Avid 101s were supposed to be set-up, placement-wise? Had a pair for a while but I don't think I ever got it right. Someone else here was saying they we designed for the woofers to fire IN, the left and right pointed at each other, while the tweeter at 90 degrees to them would point toward the room?

Hey Sr Quixote, Thanks for the welcome! The 101, 102 and 103s were designed before my time, but the 101 was a passive 2-way, ported 8" woofer, Phillips tweeter device with a "chirp" on the side. The X-over was also a commercially sourced device that drove the chirp as a very high range only, crossed at about 6KHz, I think. I wasnt present for the design phase of that series, they were a few years before my time. But I did repair many of them so can say that your description about the driver placement is not true. The 2 way drivers faced the room, and the chirp was on the side, facing out towards the sides of room, not the other speaker:

A, an obvious feature is that the main drivers are both on the same plane, front facing so if you were looking at a polar plot of response, main drivers vs chirp driver (ie: looking down from above the speaker cabinet) the mains both emit in the same plane. The chirp was a room fill because the high frequencies fall off in a very directional, lobed pattern, which you could see from the polar response plot. Also, most folks didnt hang out in between the speaker cabinets, but might be out side the pair, in a big room, or could get better hi freq room response by bouncing off of the walls.

B, If you did point the woofers at each other, they would then be emitting out of phase and you'd get cancellation of most of the low freq information, which is usually center panned (and was always so, in the 70s era of dragging a diamond needle through a vinyl grove for source material). To compensate you would need a special crossover to compensate for the phase imbalance, one for the right speaker and a different one for the left. There was only one crossover assembly for those series, a simple first order Butterworth, I know this for a fact, having replaced several of them. So nope, no way, no how would any sane company do such a design, it would be too expensive and a setup nightmare for most customers.

My assuption is the the poor polar response of the 10X series was part of the impetus to develop the minimal diffraction series, as the lack of cabinet diffraction spread the mid and high frequency response out and smoothed out the lobes in the polar plot. But those decisions were before my summer at AVID...

 

[DonQuixote99]

Thanks. I always thought woofers pointed at each other would not be good. But I never could find any detailed info on the 101, just a tantalizing blurb in an old review "excellent speakers but setup is tricky and must be done right," to paraphrase. So I always wondered what sort of setup was needed.

 

[Twinsig]

Ok. I'm now in the Avid 100 club!

 

[Chris Bruya]

Hello everyone! I own two pairs of Avid 103s. My original set, bought new in 1978, are functioning great, with new caps. Walnut cabs still look great. My newest pair (very early 1974 version), recently purchased used, have just been recapped. They sound great! But the previous owner did a rather crude repair of some midrange cone damage. While it sounds fine, I'd like to replace it. The other midrange exhibited a "buzzing" issue which I traced to a slight voice coil rub and was able to resolve by removing and reinstalling 180º and aligning the leads that go through the cone. I'd like to replace this mid as well. In my original set the mid is stamped "DR-117" which is clearly the CTS driver that Avid used on most of these. However on my newer set (the early 1974s) the midranges have a cobbled together couple of resistors attached and don't have any recognizable numbers, at least to me. The resistors seem to have the purpose of raising the resistance up to about 7.5 ohms, according to my meter. It has been very difficult to find the correct driver replacement. I've found out a lot about CTS and this particular sized driver. A similar looking one was used in the early Bose 901s, but I can't be sure they match all of the acoustic properties. Does anyone know where I could find a pair of real CTS DR-117s? Or maybe let me know if the original Bose drivers will actually work as a replacement?

 

[d-roby]

Hello everyone, i am restoring a couple of Avid Model 130. Of course woofers needed to be re-foamed, but also one of the tweteer was dead.
I repared it, but there was another problem. The coil is cooled with ferrofluid: first i filled with about 0.25 ml of liquid, but the impedence curve was "horrible".I realized that the quantity of ferrofluid was too great, so i cleaned again and re-filled with about 0.10/.0.12 ml.. in the attached pic you can see the impedance curve without FF (that is like a "standard tweeter), with 0.18 ml (still too much, curve too much smoothed, ad the right one -red curve- with 0.1/0.12 ml of ferrofluid
any comments/suggestions?
Thank you in advance ;-)

 

[stewmac]

I just picked up a pair of 103s from a garage sale, but they're missing the fuse carrier. Does anyone know of a replacement source for this part or have a render of it so I could get some printed?

 

[jheu02]

If you get someone to be able to do this, I’d be interested in one also.

 

[FabRik8r]

Just picked up some Avid 102a's yesterday. I figured I couldn't lose for $40, since they work, drivers are not damaged, and grill cloth and mdf grill plates are in amazing condition. The staples and inside edge of the cloth is still clean with no ragged spots. There is one edge of a cabinet is coming apart. About 1/16" gap, but not loose. No movement. Still, my plan was to pull everything out, update the crossovers, and either build new cabinets, or fix and veneer these with my own resawn walnut, or something that goes with the maroon grill color. The back panels are in nice shape, so I do plan to keep those for historical value. I'll have to dig in there and see how well they are attached. Since this is a sealed design, I'm guessing they are fastened really well. I'm sure someone here can speak on this one challenge.

Overall, I have to say I am impressed with these outlyers (sp?). I'm playing through a Parasound HCA-1500 and Sansui CA-2000, and settings on speakers to flat. I'll be back once I get into this a little more. You may notice I'm missing one of the grill badges. I need one with the maroon paint in the recess. I did see one on fleabay, but the gold ink is coming off the face, and I need a clean one.

I'm curious if anyone has ever thought of opening up the grill where the control panel is. It can be done, if careful. I'm just thinking if you want to be able to easily change the contours for different types of music, or to help a poor recording sound a little brighter, etc... it could be handy.

 

[Betomon]

Hello everyone!

I'm a proud owner of Avid Model 230's. I want to share a little story and then an issue. These have been with me since I was about 14 years old.. I believe I have old posts here from that era (I'm almost 30 now.. please don't go looking at my old, embarrassing posts ). In any case, I've had several speakers (Sansuis, AR, Advent, Genelec, JBL, Yamaha, Electro Voice, Meyers, Tannoys, KRK, Macpherson, Miller and Kreisel, and various cheapos). Some of those briefly, or listened to every day, etc. As I grew and got experience, as well as tuned my ears, and worked in a professional broadcast environment, it surprised me to learn I still love them!

Although I can say good (and bad) things about all of them.. I must say that these Avids have always had a special place in my heart, and actually have THE special place in my living room! They have an incredible air to them.. the midrange and highs are so clear and crisp, yet not overpowering. That little 1" tweeter does excellent work. Special mention to the midrange, absolutely stellar unit. The magnets, and overall construction is awesome for the price point. I was pleasantly surprised with high quality components inside the crossover. My Sansui AU719 started having issues and took out the tweeter on one of these.. so I'm waiting on a an original replacement. Then, the other speaker started crackling and fizzing out.

Turns out, one of the cap's leads had snapped and left only a tiny little stub. I don't have access to high quality caps right now where I live, so I came up with a little repair. Took a lead from another part, cut it, made it into an L, soldered it to the little stub, and glued the L to the body. Reason is, I don't believe the solder will hold the stub on its own while supporting the weight of the cap, vibrations, etc.. Spec was 16 uF which is not far off from 14, but.. It does make me think about a recap.

Check out the resistors on these... inductors.. everything looks to be of great quality. But... an electrolytic cap?? I found it a bit odd, considering it looks original, but, someone on eBay posted an original crossover which appears to have a better capacitor (dual) here instead of what I have. Any thoughts?? And, is it fair to say that it's about time to change the electrolytic? I posted the seller's picture, and see mine for reference

Lastly.. what to do with the dreaded stickiness and random pieces of material that have stuck to the face of these? Really having a hard time making them look nice.


This is the eBay post


This is my cap


This is my little fix..

 

[smead]

I just scored a pair of avid 100s for a ten spot! They are a little cosmetically challenged, but sound super! Very stoked.

Just curious though about the cabs which have vinyl veneer instead of the real deal. Most of what I've read is that these were walnut veneer.

 

[GarmanVardon]

They're all vinyl.