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B&O MMC cartridge question

icemonkey

New Member
I just bought a rough looking Beogram 2404 from the thrift shop with an MMC 3, which is madness as I already have a minty RX with an MMC 4 - I just could not resist. Anyway how can I find out the condition of the cartridge? What am I looking for? Both cartridges sound great although the 3 seems to have an edge. Do I need a microscope? Advice on cleaning would also be good. Many thank-yous in advance.
 
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Somewhere on the Sound-smith.com site there are instructions for how to visually determine if the suspension has failed, though I think if the cartridge sounds good the suspension is probably good. You'll need a proper microscope to visually inspect the stylus for wear (see the sticky - Sparky's Fabulous Stylus Microscope, or whatever it's called). For cleaning... my SMMC-2 got pretty cruddy once, and I'll tell you how I cleaned it after this disclaimer: I am NOT recommending this because of the extreme risk of damage from one tiny false move... use this info at your own risk. I used a small piece of magic eraser and GENTLY and CAREFULLY brushed all sides of the stylus checking my work frequently with a little 30x pocket microscope. It took quite a lot of "scrubbing" to get the gunk off. Again, this is VERY RISKY work. There may be stylus cleaning fluids that would be safer to use, but I've got no experience with them. I know that alcohol is not recommended because of the risk of softening the bond between the stylus and cantilever. Also, any liquid that wicks its way up the cantilever into the cartridge body can ruin the whole cartridge. Careful, careful, careful! Maybe it's better to just use the magic eraser in the conventional manner, use it on every play and perhaps it will eventually get all the accumulated dirt off the stylus. Good luck!
 
Have you read up on the magic eraser as a stylus cleaner? Do you know the right one to use, and the conventional way to use it? After thinking about this some more, I'd encourage you to look at the stylus with something around 15x to 30x to see if it really is dirty. If it is, try a regular stylus brush first, then try using the ME in the conventional manner - just dunking it a few times under the weight of the tonearm (a little tricky on a B&O because of the way the cueing works, get creative). Check it under magnification again. I'd use my method only as a last resort, and I cannot emphasize enough GENTLE and CAREFUL, especially with any movements that might want to stress the cantilever. It's so very delicate, easy to bend, easy to break.
 
I'm not comfortable with Magic Eraser at all, especially on these. The potential for stylus destruction on an auto-play table or one without an independent cueing feature and a delicate and costly cartridge is just too likely. I'd get a LAST stylus brush and using it properly, stay with that.
 
I'm not comfortable with Magic Eraser at all, especially on these. The potential for stylus destruction on an auto-play table or one without an independent cueing feature and a delicate and costly cartridge is just too likely. I'd get a LAST stylus brush and using it properly, stay with that.

I don't disagree, and I should further clarify that what I did was only because the stylus had gotten seriously encrusted with gunk. I think this happened because I had tried cleaning some very dirty records and didn't adequately rinse them after. Under normal conditions simple brushing ought to be enough. The stylus hasn't gotten dirty like that again since, and it was quite some time ago. The OP should examine the stylus to determine how dirty it really is before proceeding. Also, I did my "aggressive" cleaning with the cartridge off the arm so I could hold it at an angle that made it easier to work with and hence reduce the risk - which remained significant.
 
I've always used my record cleaning solution (1 part denatured alcohol/2 parts Glass +) on styli. I keep it in a small pump/sprayer (like for eyeglasses). I hold the cart vertically, cantelever down, and spray down on it trying to only wet the stylus. Then I massage the stylus with a small artist's brush shortened by cutting off half the bristles, followed with more solvent, then hold it near my lips and blow the cleaner off, again blowing away from the body towards the stylus. I inspect with a 10x loupe under a light. One good blast from my lips at one inch seems to dry it completely. I've been doing this for years to my B&O MMC 1 and 2 carts with no problem, but I think I may ask Peter (Soundsmith) before doing same to my recently purchased Voice
 
I've always used my record cleaning solution (1 part denatured alcohol/2 parts Glass +) on styli. I keep it in a small pump/sprayer (like for eyeglasses). I hold the cart vertically, cantelever down, and spray down on it trying to only wet the stylus. Then I massage the stylus with a small artist's brush shortened by cutting off half the bristles, followed with more solvent, then hold it near my lips and blow the cleaner off, again blowing away from the body towards the stylus. I inspect with a 10x loupe under a light. One good blast from my lips at one inch seems to dry it completely. I've been doing this for years to my B&O MMC 1 and 2 carts with no problem, but I think I may ask Peter (Soundsmith) before doing same to my recently purchased Voice

I'd love to know what Peter recommends... would you post the result of your inquiry? Thanks!
 
I've always used my record cleaning solution (1 part denatured alcohol/2 parts Glass +) on styli. I keep it in a small pump/sprayer (like for eyeglasses). I hold the cart vertically, cantelever down, and spray down on it trying to only wet the stylus. Then I massage the stylus with a small artist's brush shortened by cutting off half the bristles, followed with more solvent, then hold it near my lips and blow the cleaner off, again blowing away from the body towards the stylus. I inspect with a 10x loupe under a light. One good blast from my lips at one inch seems to dry it completely. I've been doing this for years to my B&O MMC 1 and 2 carts with no problem, but I think I may ask Peter (Soundsmith) before doing same to my recently purchased Voice

Get a bulb blower brush from a photo supply shop/camera store and use it with the brush removed instead of blowing on the stylus. Micro-mist of spittle is the problem and the bulb can also be used to blow the errant hair or particle off the record, preferable for similar reasons. The spittle mist increases surface noise. I use the bulb frequently for many similar tasks including blowing out my hearing device after warm-drying after use.
 
Thank you again, I do have a large collection of bulb blowers as I am a photographer, Im starting there and moving up bottom to top for advice. I have taken a photograph of the stylus with my macro set up and zoomed right in, but Im not too sure what Im looking for - It does seem a bit mucky but not too worn. I may take it to an expert next time Im in Denver, if anyone has a name? BTW: Im loving the 2404 it seems warmer or just happier than the RX 2 with my Yamaha CR1020 and Time Windows. My wife - who is the arbiter of such things - loves it so much she actually wants me to keep it!
 
Soundsmith/Peter replies:

Dear Phil;

For some reason, AK wont let me log on – I have tried repeatedly over the past year. Can’t figure it out.
Here is what I posted on AA a long time ago – you are free to post it from me on AK.

Posted by Retipper(M) on April 20, 2010 at 07:47:05

In Reply to: RE: Stylus Cleaning Habits....... posted by beach cruiser on April 18, 2010 at 17:39:25:

There are lots of ways to clean a stylus, but the warnings about wet cleaners are real.

The problem is that all epoxies are hygroscopic (they absorb water), and as they do, and then subsequently dry out a bit, they expand and shrink. This action can "eventually" cause the diamond to come loose, or the epoxy to loosen from the cantilever. The solvents used attract water as they evaporate because the evaporation is an endothermic reaction, causing the diamond to get cold, and condense water out of the air. One *could* blow some warm air VERY VERY CAREFULLY across the diamond ONLY sideways - after a wet clean, but blowing air will destroy most moving coil cartridges, and some, absolutely and immediately. Not recommended.

In terms of loosening the diamond, there are LOTS of variables. The physical manner in which the diamond is attached to the cantilever (through the cantilever mounting) is very strong, and will likely never let go. Other types of mountings (surface, butt or end mount) are far more likely to let go.

The problem is that wet cleaning is in fact often required, especially if there is substantial build up, but even with minor build up that a dry brush won’t remove. I actually use blue tac (VERY VERY CAREFULLY) but magic eraser works very well. The ME is a partially crosslinked silicone, much like an adhesive, and works in a similar manner to blue tac. The blue tac is a little more likely to leave residue, but if viewed carefully, works well. One must be VERY CAREFUL using blue tac. Press the diamond ONLY into the material, and remove it slowly. Bear in mind that both of these materials stick to the diamond, and CAN EASILY yank it off the cantilever. That's how they work - they stick, and yank. Since the diamond is a stick free surface, a few touchings with ME or BT generally works very well. Looks great under the mircoscope to watch its action. I don't doubt that the vibratory cleaners work well; I just wonder if they shorten the attachment life. Same with my teeth.

Be especially careful with cartridges that use TUBED cantilevers (boron or sapphire) as there are EXTREMELY fragile. Don't even look at them cross-eyed. The original MMC2/1 used a laser drilled hole for the diamond through a 50 micron (!) wall thickness of sapphire tubing.....so wet is great with them always and repeatedly.

I have been misquoted as saying to use a dry brush only. What I recommend is a dry SOFT brush (a cut down water color brush – about 1/8” diameter, cut down to 1/8” long bristles) is great most of the time, and a wet one infrequently. If the dry OR ME/Blue tac doesn’t restore clean sound, THEN use a wet brush (again the above WC brush is great).

The most important thing is to clean records well, and don't leave them out at all. That is the best way to keep your stylus clean. I also don't talk near them....or towards them. I found this out when I was using my Neumann lathe - its amazing how much fine misted spit (sorry) comes out when one talks. This fine mist is VERY visible on a lacquer. So when I take a record out, I talk in the other direction – or not at all. Most people really appreciate my not talking at all anyway, so…two birds… And since most dust is human skin…..I try to bathe at least one a month. And I don’t leave my records out. Did I say that already??

Yours in debris or diamond removal,

Peter Ledermann/Soundsmith
 
Thanks Phil,

Now, let's get the AK admins to fix Peter's login problem! We need him around here!
 
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