Do these reviewers get money for their "glowing reviews?"
That reminds me of Yelp reviews. When traveling out of town, I used to rely on these. After so many, "I'm eating at the same place as that review?" I stopped using Yelp.
Bad China amps with great reviews?
- Thread starter StepheK
- Start date
That reminds me of Yelp reviews. When traveling out of town, I used to rely on these. After so many, "I'm eating at the same place as that review?" I stopped using Yelp.
Hmm the conversation shifted to asking about max power at 20hz when someone mentioned they had a made in China amp they thought was decent... Oh nevermind. I'll concede to what you implied before, I probably shouldn't be doing any of these reviews for the community, and clearly the test, review and info I posted on the frequency response of this amp isn't valid or useful. PM me your address and I'll have folks start mailing their amps to you to test for free for us.
I don't disagree with that, but big power isn't required to create a realistic bass experience. I wish you could hear how well my 4W SEP reproduces content below 30Hz that really brings the music alive. Most modern speakers lose a lot of sensitivity below 50Hz or 40Hz, but that doesn't mean there's nothing there. My family hears it too, and I was encouraged to move those Cornwalls out of the living room well before I made up my mind. You know, I was a beginner audiophile in an era where the ability to reproduce frequencies down to 20hz at concert levels was the goal, and subwoofers were not yet common. I still remember when one of my roommates bought a spare door at a local home improvement store, mounted two 15" high-efficiency woofers in it, and used it to replace the door of a walk-in closet. The results were very gratifying.
Jack
No one said that.
A friend's Dad had Cornwall II speakers. Those puppies can get loud. I mean, in your face, loud. It's not the most pleasant sound, though.I don't disagree with that, but big power isn't required to create a realistic bass experience. I wish you could hear how well my 4W SEP reproduces content below 30Hz that really brings the music alive. Most modern speakers lose a lot of sensitivity below 50Hz or 40Hz, but that doesn't mean there's nothing there. My family hears it too, and I was encouraged to move those Cornwalls out of the living room well before I made up my mind. You know, I was a beginner audiophile in an era where the ability to reproduce frequencies down to 20hz at concert levels was the goal, and subwoofers were not yet common. I still remember when one of my roommates bought a spare door at a local home improvement store, mounted two 15" high-efficiency woofers in it, and used it to replace the door of a walk-in closet. The results were very gratifying.
Jack
I think he had a McIntosh amp of some sort. Played at moderate volume levels, it had a nice smooth sound. Loud, the smoothness went bye-bye. It may have been the room acoustics, too.
The Cornwalls I tested were excellent for midrange and up, and like you say, very loud. But flat system response would require a subwoofer and the associated crossovers, which is a non-starter for me. The previous owner was using them with a sub, but the overall presentation was annoying and artificial. If it was up to me, I'd have an all-horn system with full-length bass horns built into the ceiling or walls. My better half has voiced serious objections to those plans.
"Better halves" are named that for a good reason.The Cornwalls I tested were excellent for midrange and up, and like you say, very loud. But flat system response would require a subwoofer and the associated crossovers, which is a non-starter for me. The previous owner was using them with a sub, but the overall presentation was annoying and artificial. If it was up to me, I'd have an all-horn system with full-length bass horns built into the ceiling or walls. My better half has voiced serious objections to those plans.
.gif?width=590&height=590&fit=bounds)
Not everyone is into the Klipsch sound. I've heard Cornwall IV that I thought sounded good but that was with a low power no-feedback triode amp, and I didn't get to spend a ton of time with them. Possible my opinions would change with more time or different power. They were swapped out to some big Altecs that I thought were better. I ran KG-4's for years and liked them fine, but they aren't exactly bass machines. Every bad thing I've ever heard people say about Klipsch speakers was contained in a set of Hereseys though. I don't know what version they were but unless that happened to be an extremely terrible example and all the rest are miles better I don't think I care enough to find out.
I auditioned the Heresy in an A-B-C test next to Cornwalls and K-horns in the late '70s. I knew then that I would never want to own them. I heard the LaScala years later and felt the same about those. The attraction of these two models is truly incomprehensible to me.
My apologies for taking this so far OT.
Last edited:
In my set up, the Cornwall III sounds ok with 5W or less, all coming from a McIntosh MC2500. But look out when the volume increased to over 10W. That's when the Cornwalls would stretch out their legs and shine. I also have a Sony HT receiver playing through a pair of Heresy II's, a Velodyne 18" sub and a Klipsch RP-500SA pair for rear surround. No complaints with the sound whatsoever!
Last edited:
I really have limited sympathy for people buying the cheapest products available and expecting stringent design and performance standards. They're probably mostly surprisingly good for what they cost, and no problem if it suits someone's listening needs (which also wouldn't surprise me).
Also the discussion of Klipsch just above demonstrates how varied people's listening habits are, so it shouldn't be surprising that what floats one's boat won't float another's.
Also the discussion of Klipsch just above demonstrates how varied people's listening habits are, so it shouldn't be surprising that what floats one's boat won't float another's.
Lavane
Lunatic Member
No, please do keep posting your reviews and findings.
Quite the intersting thread.
10-12 years ago, I bought 12 or 13 of these Chinese made tube amps sort of as an experiment to see and hear what they offered in sonics and build quality. Tried several EL34s, 845 SET, 300B SET, KT88s. Some sounded pretty decent. Others were dreadful sounding. a few were ok; nothing to write home about. None of the amps had really deep bass. For true bass extension the amp needs large output transformers which very few Chinese amps have. Almost all of these amps have been sold off now. There are so many more offerings today, it would be tough to keep up with all new models that have been released. For the pretty reasonable price these builders were charging, most of the amps seemed to offer a decent value but were far from cutting edge sonically. To get Chinese made amps with better transformers, a person quickly hits the 2k to 3k price point. Some of the Cayin models come to mind. At that price point and above there are a number of used US made tube amps on the used market that these models are competing with. The US models may offer better sonics.
10-12 years ago, I bought 12 or 13 of these Chinese made tube amps sort of as an experiment to see and hear what they offered in sonics and build quality. Tried several EL34s, 845 SET, 300B SET, KT88s. Some sounded pretty decent. Others were dreadful sounding. a few were ok; nothing to write home about. None of the amps had really deep bass. For true bass extension the amp needs large output transformers which very few Chinese amps have. Almost all of these amps have been sold off now. There are so many more offerings today, it would be tough to keep up with all new models that have been released. For the pretty reasonable price these builders were charging, most of the amps seemed to offer a decent value but were far from cutting edge sonically. To get Chinese made amps with better transformers, a person quickly hits the 2k to 3k price point. Some of the Cayin models come to mind. At that price point and above there are a number of used US made tube amps on the used market that these models are competing with. The US models may offer better sonics.
Other than mimicking other companies products (with suspect quality), getting fake reviews is very easy to pull off. Not just a China tech problem. I know local shop owners that have friends and family load up their Yelp and Google reviews. It's so easy to do this. And people rely less on word of mouth from someone they trust and more on social media reviews and posts.
I don't think the OP is referring to fake reviews, but rather popular youtubers and whatnot with a very large number of followers that review these products and give them glowing reviews.
Which makes me wonder...where are the OTL clone amps?
Lavane
Lunatic Member
Every Chi-Fi board kit and a phono preamp I've had or have had to be modified to work properly. The only Chinese amp I haven't is an all tube headphone Amp. It works great. As for the phono preamp, I had passed it along to my son. And a big thanks to Stephie for here video on it. The mods straightened out the loading and response.
Maybe the Chinese just don't like bass? I have looked at other Chinese phono preamp board kits and the loading, etc. was just plain wrong.
With just changing a few parts values they can work just fine with your standard MM cartridge needing a 47K load. These changes wouldn't cost any more for them to do it right. They seem to go out of there way to F up a well known design when it just isn't necessary, or even cost more to do it right.
Ok, rant over.
Maybe the Chinese just don't like bass? I have looked at other Chinese phono preamp board kits and the loading, etc. was just plain wrong.
With just changing a few parts values they can work just fine with your standard MM cartridge needing a 47K load. These changes wouldn't cost any more for them to do it right. They seem to go out of there way to F up a well known design when it just isn't necessary, or even cost more to do it right.
Ok, rant over.
Last edited:
Right, one amp in particular just has the output tubes bias WAY wrong. Like it would cost nothing, yet they still sell it as a horrible sounding amp lol
Low prices do attract the ignorant buyer...present company included!
Last edited:
Gigantic
A big, big love
I don't necessarily disagree, I had a pair of 1971 H700 Heresy that I was thoroughly unimpressed with until I did the Super Heresy mods to them, making them roughly equivalent to the Heresy IV, giving them a significant amount of bass extension. Even then, I was somewhat dissatisfied, as they still needed subwoofers. That inspired me to play around with more horn speakers and I ultimately built a pair of Forte clones with a passive radiator, better tweeters and a bigger mid horn with a 2" driver. When I heard a 70's vintage pair LaScala for the first time, I was torn: there was no way I could live with speakers that big that still needed a subwoofer, the mid horn was shouty and the treble was sibilant, yet there remained something compelling about them, a clarity from the overall lack of distortion in the mid bass and midrange. I figured that from what I had learned from my previous experiments, I might be able to make them better, so I set about re-engineering them and built a new pair from scratch, selecting an 10x18" mid horn with a 2" driver, better tweeter horn and a woofer with much better specs than the OEM Klipsch driver. I enlarged the upper horn enclosure by 90%, sealed it, coupled it to the woofer doghouse enclosure and mounted a 15" passive radiator to the rear of the upper chamber. I then Tri-amped it with a DSP active crossover for parametric EQ and time alignment: the end result is a speaker that plays +/- 3db from 23Hz to 20Khz, with a linear phase response and time alignment, no subwoofers required and none of the shoutiness associated with vintage horn speakers, for less than the going rate of a pair of well-used vintage LaScala.