Bang for the buck speakers

[WildWest]

Well that sure has given me a lot to think about. Thanks thoots, knew you would come through! I still would stand on the other side of the fence though. Probably one of the reasons I do is for I have a dual system. My main listening system not only provides me with two channel music but via a Niles switch, I can bring in a 5.1 AVR for DVD viewing. For that I must have a LFE channel and a subwoofer. So the extra effort to get a sub woofer right was (as difficult as you perceive it to be) worth the effort. How funny... I had forgetten all about the real differances people will have with respect to full range speakers and sub woofers. You guys really opened it up. This was a FUN thread for me!

 

[THOR]

I knew thoots would jump in on this

 

[WildWest]

:lmao:

(he he he) I knew you both would!

 

[MikE]

Adhire HE10.1

I like the Adhire HE 10.1's . TIC stopped by a couple of weeks ago with these and I was very impressed with them IMS. This was in direct comparision to my $3500 Sonatinas. The $300 Adhires were very listenable! Highly recommended! MikE

 

[WildWest]

Hey thoots...

Ahhh yes, good ole stereo Dolby Pro Logic. Had me a Technics receiver and ran my front mains through a passive sub. Boy did I think that was hot stuff. LOL I guess by always being in the sub woofer mode it is something that I have stuck with. And now with 5.1 DVD it has risen to a whole other level that makes home theater even more fun! If you are statisfied with stereo Dolby Pro Logic I would be the LAST one to say a thing But, I always knew there was the "other side of the coin" when talking about music reproduction and how difficult it can be integrating an active sub woofer. Figgured there would be no better place than here to mention it.

Yes I listen to music with my sub woofer driving frequencies under about 55 hertz or so. My source for this is a quality pre amp and a push pull tube amp. As mentioned before. I have a Niles switch that allows me to toggle between tubes and AVR. Between my analog SPL meter and some DAT tapes my brother brought from the studio, I think music reprduction out of my system is proper. Must admit though, I would love some bass traps, that would really ROCK. Alas, one of these days when we remodle. You are so right that most people don't have a clue where to begin with respect to sub woofer set up and they toss it somewhere, fire it up and hear BOOM BOOM thinking it works. Shoot half the time it barely passes for 5.1 reproduction let alone music.

But as with my education with respect to vinyl over the past 1.5 years. I must consider what the "other camp" says in order to reach higher levels of sound reproduction. You can bet that I am going to always have an eye out for a steal on some nice vintage floorstanders. I would be very curious to do my own auditioning. Dang.. If I could only get motivated on the weekends early and hit the estate sales I betcha I would eventually come accross gold.

 

[Walt]

Well the audio debate of the new millenium surfaces ... sub/sat vs full range ... hmmm

For me it's pretty straight forward ... for music - full range for 2 ch, no sub ... for HT - full range augmented by sub (so set full range speakers to "small" to activate LFE).

Tom - I am more inclined with your opinion on this subject, however I would question a couple of the points you made above ...

First, I was under the impression (well my ears agree anyway) that the LFE typically carried by an active sub were non-directional.

And although some people swear by the dual-subwoofer approach I doubt that it really makes much of a difference other than to add some more "boom" - in fact dual subs unless exactly in phase could possibly be creating more problems than they're worth if not correctly configured.

What I do agree with is the whole process of correctly calibrating sub levels with the rest of the setup (and this includes positioning of the sub) is just a horrible nightmare, and unless you have the time and patience to "get dirty" with SPL meter and calibration DVD/CD then you're just taking a shot in the dark.

WW has obviously set his system up correctly, Joe Average with his mini-cubes and "bass-module" OTOT has no idea, and is getting a severely compromised solution as a result - he would be better off with full range speakers for HT, but that's not the IMAGE of HT is it (according to the marketers anyway)?

My 2 c anyway ...

 

[bully]

Even for my HT system I have full-range speakers all around, and I also have a pair of Dahlquist PDQ-1500 active woofers running from the LFE. I use a pair of Yamaha NS-A838 four the mains, and another pair for the center, driven by an Onkyo M-5160 amp. For the surrounds I have a pair of Yammie NS-A638. I even have a spare 10-in active sub and a passive 12-inch sub I should use one or both for something, mebbe the surround.
Except for the INfinity Qb, the Marantz 900, and the smaller Advent, & and the smaller Yamaha, if it doesn't have at least a 12-inch woofer, can it really be called a LOUDspeaker.
Of course, I am not in the camp that thinks interior design and decoration has any merit at all. Whazzat? Also, kinda from another thread, furniture? Who has room for furniture? Y'gotta bed, and a chair for sittin' at the PC, what else d'ya need.

heck, mebbe I have become a crotchety old bachelor. sheee-it
dang it all, but I do have good tunes.

pete

 

[WildWest]

Ok guys, here some big ole heavy vintage floorstanders just up the street from me. Whatcha think!?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1361612134

 

[jay]

Walt, WW:

I've been down the road that the Thootster is describing--Over a year ago I dumped my housebrand JBL L-100 "clones" and jumped into the sub/sat setup.

I started with Ratshack Lx-5's but disliking everything but the tweeters I replaced them with NHT Zero's. The sound was still bad but now without the good tweeter to somewhat offset it.

I've now sold all that rubbish and am happily using 30 year old large Advents while looking for something higher up the food chain.

The idea that bass is non-directional is true--but only for very low bass. True, low bass under 20hz which is felt rather than heard is non-directional but most subwoofers are not true subwoofers but just woofers

Example: My sub crossed over at a ridiculous 200hz. At that level the song is understandable. Since my sats pulled all the way down to 80hz, that left at least 120hz where the sub and sats were talking over each other and muddying up the sound. I tend to think this mismatch is more common than not.

I haven't even touched on the subject of phase mismatch but instead of going into that, perhaps you'd like to read what retired Mcintosh engineer Roger Russell has posted on the subject. His comments are interesting in that some of the things we are debating here (such as 1 vs. 2 subs) were a hot topic of conversation in 1966.
Here's the Russell link: http://www.sundial.net/~rogerr/truth.htm#twosubwoofers

I wish I'd seen articles and forums like these a year ago before causing myself so much frustration.

Jay



P.S. Wildwest: To paraphrase Josey, "You gonna get those old floorstanders or whistle Dixie?"

 

[WildWest]

Well Jay, I tell ya there padner. I be settin my sights on em. I mean. I could cram them in my music room where my guitars are. I understand these to be extreamly efficient speakers so I won't need my own lil power plant to run an amp for them. Nothing would please this audiophile more than to experiment with this vintage format. Would I make it my main listening system? I highly doubt it, but my mind is open as I am about to drop the coin to prove it. The detail of my Aria 5Rs is unreal with their Raven Ribbon tweets. My SVS sub has true sub woofer output that makes you catch your breath. Detail is very critical to me and I have yet to hear speakers that give me what I have now. My theories as mentioned on cabinets and components stands from my experiances.

Whew Jay, your old sub/sat system truely wasn't a good example of how it can be done. I think you would be impressed by my sub woofer system. It really is done very well and has made believers out of some. My older brother for one. Die hard analog man from the old days. Big speakers, turntables etc. The man spent years in professional music studio recording and sound engineering. While he brought me over from the dark side of living only a redbook CD world, I made him understand the power of a sub woofer done right. (doing best Darth Vader impression)

http://66.221.25.117/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4&pagenumber=3

 

[bully]

Variable gain and adjustable crossover is so important for properly setting up a subwoofer with the rest of the system.
My second Dahlquist PDQ-1500 arrived not too much before I went in for back surgery a few years ago. Far to big and heavy for me to take downstairs to its' intended HT duties, I fooled around with it connected into the big stereo.
At that time I had the two PCR800's each driving one pair of speakers, the JBL CF-150's and the Advent's (IIRC, those are fuzzy times 'cause of the pain meds). I ran a patchcord through an adapter from the headphone plug.
200 watts going into 3 15-inch woofers AND a pair of Advents, my-my, I think Thor would have approved!
But, it did require some fiddlin' with the controls to get things matched, and that the sub wasn't tryin' to reach to high and muddy things.
Two of those PDQ-1500's down with the HT, whew, let the Matrix rumble!
BTW, I have a pair of the RS Pro LX-8's and they're a very nice pair of speakers. Love that Linaeum tweet!! The 8-incher probably provides what the 5-incher could not.

pete, just babbling, don't mind me ...

 

[jay]

Aria's?
Ribbon tweets?

WW, you don't need new speaks, just a couple of pleasant hours of daily listening!

Where those real Aria's or built from kits?


Jay (the envious)

P.S. If you get the oldies, we're all gonna want the works: riveting story, pics, etc......

 

[WildWest]

Real Aria's or built from kits? My Aria is the best of the D'Appolito design for the Aria 5 also known in many circles as the MTM. They are 1.5 inch MDF cabinets. Focal drivers with the Raven Ribbon tweeter in them. The Aria 5R You know about Ribbon tweets don't cha? It don't get much better me friend... ohhhh yeahhh Anyway, yes it is a kit supplied by Elliott at Zayltron in New York. I modified his crossover though by using a better cap in it. Silver solder and jewelers silver wire on all connections. He is the ONLY guy out there providing the kinds of cabinets that he does. 1.5 inch MDF?! It is very heavy and very dead...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=4&pagenumber=3

Many people use this speaker design as it is an excellent performer. I don't understand you when you say "real Arias".

Jay I don't need new speakers no. But I do need to test and audition big, large, heavy floorstanders from the vintage years. I want to better understands Toms and many others here points of view.

But you are sooooo right Jay. I need more...MORE...MORE!!! pleasent hours of listening....hmmmmm let me go tell the wife.

 

[Hanleyster]

Certainly the flat/wide Boston era speakers. you can get A100s for next to nothing that sound fantastic!

 

[hi*ball]

^ Wow! 13 years later. That deserves one Furley

 

[Lux Man]

I am just curious how one comes across a 13 yr. old thread and then comments on it. But hey since it is "alive", I would have said, at what price point? I mean best bang for the buck if you want to spend $100, $500, $1000, $2000 etc, etc. I 'm not looking for an answer but just making the point that you would have to add a qualifier to the op's original question to begin to answer it. Okay now this one can go back to sleep until maybe 2028.