Best 12AT7 tubes

[seanrr]

I recently picked up a Bottlehead Steremour amp, which is a 2A3 integrated made from a kit, and its driver tube is a single 12AT7. I have bought a couple of 12AT7 tubes to try and thus far seem to like the older black-plate RCA tube and a blackplate 12AT7WA/6201 tube. Presently, I am rolling those two to see which I like best. My question is whether there are some well known very good performers I should be testing out. For those who roll 12AT7 tubes, what have you found?

 

[goldleaf]

It is not that simple. How a tube performs is an interaction between the pre tube, the output tube, the particular driver circuit and the output transformer. A lot of what is out there as far as opinions applies to relatively dark, somewhat fuzzy old amps. With modern circuits some of the old tubes sound too bright, some add the right "air" to the sound but basically you have to test them on YOUR amp to be able to tell. Some people like the sound of modern tubes in modern amps because they were designed for it. In any case, with this caveat emptor, check out this article

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html

What applies to the X series is similar (in terms of manufacturers), with the second letter (the "T") meaning a different gain.

 

[seanrr]

Goldleaf,

Thank you for the input - I understand that there are multiple variables - personal taste, amp, tube interaction, etc. That said, I have found that sometimes it is good to at least try some of the ones others have found best. Would you suggest that the characteristics of different 12AX7 tubes are similar to those of 12AT7s from the same manufacturer?

 

[bronco]

Siemens 12AT7 is by far the best tube of this type I have listened to. Unfortunately they are not very common and getting fairly expensive, while the rest of the 12AT7 rubbish is still really cheap.

 

[jaymanaa]

If you can spend 3 bills a pair, there's really no contest. And with Tannoys, it wouldn't be a waste of money.

 

[goldleaf]

Goldleaf,

Thank you for the input - I understand that there are multiple variables - personal taste, amp, tube interaction, etc. That said, I have found that sometimes it is good to at least try some of the ones others have found best. Would you suggest that the characteristics of different 12AX7 tubes are similar to those of 12AT7s from the same manufacturer?

It is hard to say with precision, but yes, I would expect similar sound from similar construction techniques from any one manufacturer. The problem is that a particular manufacturer may have sourced a particular run of tubes from another maker. You really need to look at the actual construction of the tubes in question to make sure they are the same beast. It is possible to get 2 different brand tubes that were in fact made by the same maker also. It is why I do not roll tubes much. Others here swear by it especially with older amps so I'll let them chime in - you'll get your Mullard, Telefunken, etc fans

 

[Bigerik]

If you can spend 3 bills a pair, there's really no contest. And with Tannoys, it wouldn't be a waste of money.

Wonder what they would do in a Manley?

 

[seanrr]

If you can spend 3 bills a pair, there's really no contest. And with Tannoys, it wouldn't be a waste of money.

Jay -

You don't need to be sarcastic - :nono: I just know people always have their favorites for every tube type and wanted to see what they were for the 12AT7.

 

[sony6060]

Telefunken ECC801S. Expensive tube. Forget Brimar 12AT7 later production that is common on ebay right now. Sounds thin & uninvolving in my amp. Perhaps older Brimar T7 series label is better, have not auditioned.

 

[bobabode]

Jay -

You don't need to be sarcastic - :nono: I just know people always have their favorites for every tube type and wanted to see what they were for the 12AT7.

Mullards are what I like. I missed the sarcasm in Jay's post?He knows a lot about the tube in question, he owns half of the stock of 12AT7's in the U.S. He's alright for a Missoura boy... Those GEC's in the picture he posted are supposed to be the cat's meow.

 

[goldleaf]

Yeah Sean, Jay is just going high end in his recommendation. There are many intermediate steps of course.

 

[seanrr]

Mullards are what I like. I missed the sarcasm in Jay's post?He knows a lot about the tube in question, he owns half of the stock of 12AT7's in the U.S. He's alright for a Missoura boy... Those GEC's in the picture he posted are supposed to be the cat's meow.

Oh - sorry Jay - I thought you just picked the highest priced one on that auction site to suggest one needs to pay $300/pair for the BEST 12AT7 tube - sarcasm is often difficult to discern through on-line discussions.

Otherwise - I do like Mullard 12AX7s in EL84 amps...so, maybe I will search out some Mullards to try out as well. I think I can find one of those for under $300/pair.

 

[bobabode]

Oh - sorry Jay - I thought you just picked the highest priced one on that auction site to suggest one needs to pay $300/pair for the BEST 12AT7 tube - sarcasm is often difficult to discern through on-line discussions.

Otherwise - I do like Mullard 12AX7s in EL84 amps...so, maybe I will search out some Mullards to try out as well. I think I can find one of those for under $300/pair.

You oughta see us carry on at Political Chat! On second thought, maybe not....
I found some Mullards for a sawbuck each on eBay but it took a while, I look through the "buy it now" section. I got tired if being sniped at the last second, bidding in auctions. Good luck with your search.

BTW, spent a dozen years in your neck of the woods-Takoma Park, Md. Late sixties until 1980. Loved it there except for winter & summer. Spring & fall were great. Turns out there are a lot of AKers around there. They actually get together once or twice a year. Keep an eye on the AK fest forum, someone always brings crabcakes.:thmbsp:

 

[sony6060]

You oughta see us carry on at Political Chat! On second thought, maybe not.... Jay and I are in different camps politically but then he's wrong.

I found some Mullards for a sawbuck each on eBay but it took a while, I look through the "buy it now" section. I got tired if being sniped at the last second, bidding in auctions. Good luck with your search.

BTW, spent a dozen years in your neck of the woods-Takoma Park, Md. Late sixties until 1980. Loved it there except for winter & summer. Spring & fall were great. Turns out there are a lot of AKers around there. They actually get together once or twice a year. Keep an eye on the AK fest forum, someone always brings crabcakes.:thmbsp:

What does a 'sawbuck' equal in US dollars?

 

[bobabode]

What does a 'sawbuck' equal in US dollars?

Ten, what I should've said was a double sawbuck. Paid twenty apiece for them.

 

[MWalt]

It is not that simple. How a tube performs is an interaction between the pre tube, the output tube, the particular driver circuit and the output transformer. A lot of what is out there as far as opinions applies to relatively dark, somewhat fuzzy old amps. With modern circuits some of the old tubes sound too bright, some add the right "air" to the sound but basically you have to test them on YOUR amp to be able to tell. Some people like the sound of modern tubes in modern amps because they were designed for it. In any case, with this caveat emptor, check out this article

http://www.audioasylum.com/scripts/d.pl?audio/faq/joes-tubes.html

What applies to the X series is similar (in terms of manufacturers), with the second letter (the "T") meaning a different gain.

This is very true. I change my 12AT7's out in my preamp depending on the amp I use them with. For example, I prefer my Psvane 12AT7's with my 6L6 SE amp but when I go to my SS Pass F5 amp I like Mullard 12AT7's better. It's all about system synergy. FWIW, I have a 12AT7 derivative that you might look out for that sounds real good; the Raytheon Triple Mica Blackplate 6414. Good luck, tube rolling is a lot of fun (and expensive).

 

[StuartB]

I have a Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Signature preamp that I really enjoy. It uses one 12at7 tube so tube rolling is simple and relatively inexpensive, and you do not not need to match tubes.

My all time favorite is a Dutch Phillips Miniwatt 6201. It is labelled SQ (Special Quality). The glass envelope has a pinched waist...which is very unique and distinctive.

The sound is very detailed, but also rich and textured. Just a beautiful sound in my system. After that the 1950 vintage Mullards are my next preferred tube. A lot like the Miniwatt, just a little less robust (yes I know, I am struggling to explain the sound). After the Mullards, third in line for me are the Telefunkens and Seimens.

I firmly believe that there are personal and system synergies that come into play. But for me the Dutch and British tubes are preferred.

I have a decent collection of 12at7 tubes, more than I will probably ever use, so if you have a hard time finding what you want, let me know.

 

[Ed in Tx]

Speaking of 12AT7s, I have a supposedly "matched" pair of NOS Sylvanias mfg'd in Sept 1957, in white boxes with a contract number. I do not remember why I have these, but I do have a compressor-limiter with a tube buffer output, I could put them in. It has some Chinese tubes in it that it came with. Are these old Sylvanias any good for audio?

 

[seanrr]

Speaking of 12AT7s, I have a supposedly "matched" pair of NOS Sylvanias mfg'd in Sept 1957, in white boxes with a contract number. I do not remember why I have these, but I do have a compressor-limiter with a tube buffer output, I could put them in. It has some Chinese tubes in it that it came with. Are these old Sylvanias any good for audio?

I have tried some Sylvanias from that period with the black plates, and they sounded good, but I have enjoyed the RCA 12AT7 tubes from that period more. But as others say here, it can't hurt to try them out since it depends on the system and your own likes.

Thanks for the input from everybody - I will definitely keep my eyes open for all those European tubes (Dutch, German, and British - even Jay's super expensive GEC ones).

By the way, do people use the Mullard-made GE tubes? I noticed that those can go for a bit cheaper.

 

[seanrr]

BTW, spent a dozen years in your neck of the woods-Takoma Park, Md. Late sixties until 1980. Loved it there except for winter & summer. Spring & fall were great. Turns out there are a lot of AKers around there. They actually get together once or twice a year. Keep an eye on the AK fest forum, someone always brings crabcakes.:thmbsp:

Yeah - the DC area is pretty livable, and there seem to be enough audio fans around to make the craigslist entries interesting. I have met lots of interesting people around here who have helped me learn a lot about vintage and tube audio, and I have heard of some fests. I will need to check one out one of these days soon.