Best bang-for-buck cartridge/stylus upgrade for Technics SL-QD2?

[e3b0c442]

Hi all,

A couple of months ago, I received a hand-me-down Technics SL-QD2 in fantastic condition. This is my first experience with turntables. The table came to me with what I now know is a Shure MP94e cartridge with the N94E stylus, and I initially connected it directly to my Denon AVR-X3800H phono input with a 6ft Blue Jeans LC2 cable.

I've done a fair amount of upgrades and learned quite a bit over the past few months. I bought an LP Gear CFT4PSE cart to upgrade/complement it since I didn't know what the condition of the MP94e was. I have also since purchased a Schiit Mani 2 preamp to shorten the connection to the phono stage since I can't get the turntable any closer to the receiver, and a Herbies Way Excellent II mat.

Now I'm looking at further cart/stylus upgrades, and I currently have identified 3 options:

1. A JICO SAS/B stylus for the MP94e cartridge ($282)
2. An LP Gear ATN3472ML stylus as an upgrade to the CFT4PSE cart ($198) -- or alternatively, the whole LPGATSER05ML cartridge. I'm assuming the cartridge body is the same between the two, but if anyone definitively knows differently, please advise
3. I found an Audio-Technica VS225EP cartridge with no stylus for $20, which I understand can be used with current Audio-Technica VM series stylii (am I understanding that correctly? The current VMs look a little "taller" in pictures. but that could just be perspective). So, that, with a new VMN40ML stylus ($229 total)

Any thoughts as to which route I would take and would give me the most for my money? I'm not somebody who has the time or energy to spend hunting down diamonds in the vintage rough, so I'm looking at things I can find fairly easily. The VS225EP wasn't even on my radar but it almost literally fell into my lap.

There is also a 4th option, which is to just stay put and save that money towards a new turntable (currently targeting a Technics SL-100C with an immediate AT-VMN95ML stylus upgrade). Obviously, I don't want to sink too much money into the hand-me-down if it's not worth it, but at the same time I'd like to take full advantage of the thoughtful gift before I just cast it aside.

Thoughts and opinions appreciated, thank you!

 

[jrtrent]

Hi all,

A couple of months ago, I received a hand-me-down Technics SL-QD2 in fantastic condition. This is my first experience with turntables. The table came to me with what I now know is a Shure MP94e cartridge with the N94E stylus, and I initially connected it directly to my Denon AVR-X3800H phono input with a 6ft Blue Jeans LC2 cable.

I've done a fair amount of upgrades and learned quite a bit over the past few months. I bought an LP Gear CFT4PSE cart to upgrade/complement it since I didn't know what the condition of the MP94e was. I have also since purchased a Schiit Mani 2 preamp to shorten the connection to the phono stage since I can't get the turntable any closer to the receiver, and a Herbies Way Excellent II mat.

Now I'm looking at further cart/stylus upgrades, and I currently have identified 3 options:

1. A JICO SAS/B stylus for the MP94e cartridge ($282)
2. An LP Gear ATN3472ML stylus as an upgrade to the CFT4PSE cart ($198) -- or alternatively, the whole LPGATSER05ML cartridge. I'm assuming the cartridge body is the same between the two, but if anyone definitively knows differently, please advise
3. I found an Audio-Technica VS225EP cartridge with no stylus for $20, which I understand can be used with current Audio-Technica VM series stylii (am I understanding that correctly? The current VMs look a little "taller" in pictures. but that could just be perspective). So, that, with a new VMN40ML stylus ($229 total)

The VMN40ML stylus tracks at 1.8-2.2 grams. I'm not familiar with your turntable, but most p-mount models have either a factory-set, non-adjustable tracking force of 1.25 grams or a fairly limited range of adjustment, such as 1.0-1.5 grams.

Any thoughts as to which route I would take and would give me the most for my money? I'm not somebody who has the time or energy to spend hunting down diamonds in the vintage rough, so I'm looking at things I can find fairly easily. The VS225EP wasn't even on my radar but it almost literally fell into my lap.

There is also a 4th option, which is to just stay put and save that money towards a new turntable (currently targeting a Technics SL-100C with an immediate AT-VMN95ML stylus upgrade). Obviously, I don't want to sink too much money into the hand-me-down if it's not worth it, but at the same time I'd like to take full advantage of the thoughtful gift before I just cast it aside.

The LP Gear cartridge you've already purchased promises, "the CFT4PSE touches and endears the more you listen. You won't want to go back to your underperforming or pricey cartridge. You'll hear, feel and sense the music exquisitely rendered — harmonically full-bodied, refractive and refreshingly crystal clean with luminous detail spatially radiating with realness." I would say you're already taking full advantage of what the SL-QD2 has to offer.

As to the SL-100C, do you have an opportunity, perhaps through a comparative audition at a local hifi shop, to see what level of improvement it offers over what you have now? If at all possible, give your ears a chance to determine if the money spent is actually going to result in enjoying your records more. I also wouldn't be too quick to replace the VMN95C with the higher-priced stylus. Herb Reichert's cartridge survey for Stereophile included VM95 models with conical, elliptical, Shibata, and MicroLine styli, and he concluded, "Music-pleasure–wise, Audio-Technica's VM95C was the most satisfying cartridge in this survey. It shifted my perspective and made me reconsider what I thought I knew about phonography."

 

[knotscott]

It's always subjective, but the VM95MLor VM540ML are great value and excellent performance. The AT-3600L for ~ $25 has to be the absolute best bang for the buck, but it's not in the same league as the VM series.

 

[mrwood200]

Any thoughts as to which route I would take and would give me the most for my money? I'm not somebody who has the time or energy to spend hunting down diamonds in the vintage rough, so I'm looking at things I can find fairly easily. ..

Thoughts and opinions appreciated, thank you!

(fyi - I did not review your stylus/cartridge options in detail. As you are aware, it does take some time/energy to get in the weeds. However, I can offer a simple, bang-for-buck solution that should offer an upgrade)
Goldring E3 on amazon
Stereophile recommended component, save $100+

Since you are 'new to turntables' (Welcome!), I will highlight that this Goldring is not a P-mount cartridge. If you are uncomfortable with mounting a cartridge on a headshell & adjusting overhang, you may want to stay with a P-mount and/or consider purchasing something at a local shop that offers installation.
Assuming your turntable keeps accurate speed, it should be fine for any of your options.

 

[e3b0c442]

The VMN40ML stylus tracks at 1.8-2.2 grams. I'm not familiar with your turntable, but most p-mount models have either a factory-set, non-adjustable tracking force of 1.25 grams or a fairly limited range of adjustment, such as 1.0-1.5 grams.

Thank you for pointing this out, I hadn't considered this, and you're right -- this table has a 1.0-1.5 gram range. I guess I'll put the VS225EP on the shelf for a rainy day.

The LP Gear cartridge you've already purchased promises, "the CFT4PSE touches and endears the more you listen. You won't want to go back to your underperforming or pricey cartridge. You'll hear, feel and sense the music exquisitely rendered — harmonically full-bodied, refractive and refreshingly crystal clean with luminous detail spatially radiating with realness." I would say you're already taking full advantage of what the SL-QD2 has to offer.

FWIW, the CFT4PSE was better than the MP94e/N94E that came to me with the table, but not earth-shatteringly so; I'm still missing some detail I'm expecting to hear, which is why I'm focused on a finer-tipped cartridge than the ellipticals I currently have.

As to the SL-100C, do you have an opportunity, perhaps through a comparative audition at a local hifi shop, to see what level of improvement it offers over what you have now? If at all possible, give your ears a chance to determine if the money spent is actually going to result in enjoying your records more.

This is something I'm looking at doing. I will say -- my primary driver here is being able to use standard mount cartridges and explore the much wider range of options available to me. If it wasn't for the fact that my options are limited by the P-mount tonearm, I'd probably stick with this table until the proverbial wheels fell off, but that's also why I'm asking the question -- if I can achieve what I'm looking for without a wholesale replacement (or getting beyond the point where it does just make more sense value-wise to replace it), then I'll enjoy it longer.

I also wouldn't be too quick to replace the VMN95C with the higher-priced stylus. Herb Reichert's cartridge survey for Stereophile included VM95 models with conical, elliptical, Shibata, and MicroLine styli, and he concluded, "Music-pleasure–wise, Audio-Technica's VM95C was the most satisfying cartridge in this survey. It shifted my perspective and made me reconsider what I thought I knew about phonography."

This is an interesting take. I'd probably still get the ML stylus anyway given my pursuit of detail, but the nice thing here is that it doesn't mean I need to trash the conical stylus that comes with it

Thanks for taking the time to reply.

 

[e3b0c442]

It's always subjective, but the VM95MLor VM540ML are great value and excellent performance. The AT-3600L for ~ $25 has to be the absolute best bang for the buck, but it's not in the same league as the VM series.

Thanks, this is what I've been picking up, and my focus is on neutral, faithful reproduction with detail, which is why I'm looking at these finer-tipped style. Unfortunately, as @jrtrent pointed out, the tracking weight on these carts is 1.8g-2.2g, while my P-mount table is limited to 1.0-1.5g.

 

[e3b0c442]

(fyi - I did not review your stylus/cartridge options in detail. As you are aware, it does take some time/energy to get in the weeds. However, I can offer a simple, bang-for-buck solution that should offer an upgrade)
Goldring E3 on amazon
Stereophile recommended component, save $100+

Since you are 'new to turntables' (Welcome!), I will highlight that this Goldring is not a P-mount cartridge. If you are uncomfortable with mounting a cartridge on a headshell & adjusting overhang, you may want to stay with a P-mount and/or consider purchasing something at a local shop that offers installation.
Assuming your turntable keeps accurate speed, it should be fine for any of your options.

Unfortunately, this TT is P-mount native so standard mount cartridges aren't an option for me. Part of the reason I'm looking at the 100C (and Fluance, and Rega, and Pro-Ject...)

 

[mrwood200]

Unfortunately, this TT is P-mount native so standard mount cartridges aren't an option for me. Part of the reason I'm looking at the 100C (and Fluance, and Rega, and Pro-Ject...)

My bad -
I will take a 2nd try. Probably make it worse....
Not a big fan of P-mounts w/v.limited experience. If you want more from your analog side, and have the budget for a 100C, you are on the right track with replacing your turntable. The 100C would be a huge upgrade. I have a RB300 P3; I think 100C would be better. Not sure there is a better new table for that price.

 

[jrtrent]

FWIW, the CFT4PSE was better than the MP94e/N94E that came to me with the table, but not earth-shatteringly so; I'm still missing some detail I'm expecting to hear, which is why I'm focused on a finer-tipped cartridge than the ellipticals I currently have.

Thank you for that clarification. In your initial post, I hadn't picked up on the priority of extracting more detail.

This is something I'm looking at doing. I will say -- my primary driver here is being able to use standard mount cartridges and explore the much wider range of options available to me.

That being the case, if you're drawn to the SL-100C, I think it would make a good choice. I happen to be a Rega fan, but the removable headshell of the Technics makes exploring cartridges a whole lot quicker and easier. I happened upon an interesting and very positive review of it:

Legendär direkt

Der Technics SL-100C macht vom Fleck weg einen guten Eindruck, er besitzt ein sattes Gewicht von knapp 10 Kilogramm, ist sehr gut verarbeitet und sieht...

www.fairaudio.de

He chose the VMN95SH rather than the ML, but paid the SL100C high praise in saying, "Its big brother, the Technics SL-1200G, plays tonally more neutrally – but it doesn't bring more joy in playing."

This is an interesting take. I'd probably still get the ML stylus anyway given my pursuit of detail, but the nice thing here is that it doesn't mean I need to trash the conical stylus that comes with it

If you spend some time with the conical, you might come to appreciate it as Herb Reicher did, but it really isn't suited to the pursuit of detail. Reichert quoted Art Dudley, another conical enthusiast, "Record lovers who enjoy the extra shimmer, sparkle, detail, and air brought to the listening experience by elliptical or more radical stylus profiles have nothing to be ashamed of: those choices are sonically and musically valid. But I continue to prefer the spherical experience—to me, it emphasizes musical content over air, allowing instruments and voices to sound more substantial, and music to sound, overall, less fussy than with other tip types." Reichert then added, ""I agree 100% with Art's observation: Spherical/conical-tipped cartridges emphasize 'musical content' with force and vigor. And simplification. By eliminating some amounts of complex low-level spatial, atmospheric, and harmonic information, conical tips seem to expose the raw, beating core of humans playing music. That's why I love them." https://www.stereophile.com/content...nica-goldring-lp-gear-phono-cartridges-page-2

 

[knotscott]

Thanks, this is what I've been picking up, and my focus is on neutral, faithful reproduction with detail, which is why I'm looking at these finer-tipped style. Unfortunately, as @jrtrent pointed out, the tracking weight on these carts is 1.8g-2.2g, while my P-mount table is limited to 1.0-1.5g.

I missed the P-mount aspect. P-mount is fine for casual LP playing, but if you're at all serious about improving your vinyl game, there are a lot more options with more upward potential with a standard mount. Worth pursuing IMO... I see so many decent used standard mount TTs on Facebook at very reasonable prices.

 

[e3b0c442]

My bad -
I will take a 2nd try. Probably make it worse....
Not a big fan of P-mounts w/v.limited experience. If you want more from your analog side, and have the budget for a 100C, you are on the right track with replacing your turntable. The 100C would be a huge upgrade. I have a RB300 P3; I think 100C would be better. Not sure there is a better new table for that price.

Yeah, that's definitely what I'm on the fence about. I'm hesitating mostly because it feels like a terrible waste, like throwing the baby out with the bathwater; the rest of the table is magnificent, I honestly wish there were a way to just replace the tonearm with something better (and standard mount) but that doesn't appear to be an option. I'll probably end up getting the ML stylus for this AT3472-compatible cart and see if I still feel like I'm missing out on something.

The Planar 3 is #2 on my list, and I'm sure it would be #1 if I lived in the UK but the price is so much higher here. Their Nd series of cartridges is intriguing.

 

[e3b0c442]

Thank you for that clarification. In your initial post, I hadn't picked up on the priority of extracting more detail.

That being the case, if you're drawn to the SL-100C, I think it would make a good choice. I happen to be a Rega fan, but the removable headshell of the Technics makes exploring cartridges a whole lot quicker and easier. I happened upon an interesting and very positive review of it:

Legendär direkt

Der Technics SL-100C macht vom Fleck weg einen guten Eindruck, er besitzt ein sattes Gewicht von knapp 10 Kilogramm, ist sehr gut verarbeitet und sieht...

www.fairaudio.de

He chose the VMN95SH rather than the ML, but paid the SL100C high praise in saying, "Its big brother, the Technics SL-1200G, plays tonally more neutrally – but it doesn't bring more joy in playing."

If you spend some time with the conical, you might come to appreciate it as Herb Reicher did, but it really isn't suited to the pursuit of detail. Reichert quoted Art Dudley, another conical enthusiast, "Record lovers who enjoy the extra shimmer, sparkle, detail, and air brought to the listening experience by elliptical or more radical stylus profiles have nothing to be ashamed of: those choices are sonically and musically valid. But I continue to prefer the spherical experience—to me, it emphasizes musical content over air, allowing instruments and voices to sound more substantial, and music to sound, overall, less fussy than with other tip types." Reichert then added, ""I agree 100% with Art's observation: Spherical/conical-tipped cartridges emphasize 'musical content' with force and vigor. And simplification. By eliminating some amounts of complex low-level spatial, atmospheric, and harmonic information, conical tips seem to expose the raw, beating core of humans playing music. That's why I love them." https://www.stereophile.com/content...nica-goldring-lp-gear-phono-cartridges-page-2

This is really great context, thanks for the links.

I can definitely see what he's saying about the 1200G, and honestly, if I felt the need to step up from there I think my next target would be a Rega Planar 6 or a VPI Scout (based on what my budget looks like at that hypothetical time). I'm not sure I'll feel that need, though. Time will tell.

 

[mrwood200]

I'll probably end up getting the ML stylus for this AT3472-compatible cart and see if I still feel like I'm missing out on something.
The Planar 3 is #2 on my list

Not a bad option.
The TT is fine, it is just a bit limiting with the P-mount. It is product aimed at a market that you may have outgrown.
The ML stylus + AT cart should give you a better sound. If nothing else, it will get you a stylus for 1000 hr runtime (probably less), so you can get your vinyl on, see if it is a fit & do some additional research on next steps. If you already have the cartridge, consider checking for continuity prior to purchasing the stylus.
Addition unrequested input! However, if you are confident today that vinyl is going to be part of your life for the next ~5 years, let's not put money into the Pmount. Run the LP cart & prepare to move on & up.

 

[lini]

Thank you for pointing this out, I hadn't considered this, and you're right -- this table has a 1.0-1.5 gram range. I guess I'll put the VS225EP on the shelf for a rainy day.

Shouldn't be much of a problem, as the needles for the halfinch-mount bodies typically are ca. 0.6 g heavier than the needles for the T4P bodies.

Too bad you don't at least have a broken needle at hand, so you could try, whether the body/needle fit is still tight/secure enough. I'm mentioning that, as in case of some of the SS445E/Us (= renamed AT122EP), that were offered by Ebay vendor Wolfsbigbadgarage some years ago, this unfortunately wasn't the case anymore.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[sound hound]

Although I have more cartridges that are not P mount, I have a high regard for P mount cartridges. I think what me got started taking P mount cartridges more seriously was the ADC PSX series. Even the PSX-10 with a conical stylus sounds good to my ears. And with an adapter, it has the versatility that it can be mounted on a Technics style headshell. If you have time, you might check out the AK discussion on P mounts.

 

[e3b0c442]

Appreciate everybody's inputs here, I learned a lot and got some great perspectives.

After discussing with my wife (whose father is the benefactor of the table we received) I decided to go ahead and try to squeeze every ounce out of this SL-QD2 that I could, and ended up ordering the LP Gear T4P Reference VML cartridge (which contains the ATN3472ML stylus I mentioned -- I decided I wanted a whole cart so I could avoid swapping stylii back and forth (and subjecting myself to the risk of damaging them in the process).

I literally about cried playing Abbey Road on it for the first time.

Between the cart, the Herbie's Way Excellent II mat, and the Schiit Mani 2, I really have this setup dialed in and it has sated any thoughts of getting a new turntable for the time being. The details are crisp and the reproduction is neutral and faithful, exactly what I was going for.

I got a lot out of this thread that I haven't considered and I definitely see myself trying out some those recommendations once I take some time to digest these upgrades and their impact on my wallet .

Thanks for being a great community.

 

[e3b0c442]

Although I have more cartridges that are not P mount, I have a high regard for P mount cartridges. I think what me got started taking P mount cartridges more seriously was the ADC PSX series. Even the PSX-10 with a conical stylus sounds good to my ears. And with an adapter, it has the versatility that it can be mounted on a Technics style headshell. If you have time, you might check out the AK discussion on P mounts.

I will have to check that thread out. Thanks for the specific pointer on the ADC PSX, if I ever get to the point that I'm ready to go down the vintage cart rabbit hole I will make sure to consider this.

 

[static14]

I was lucky enough to get a NOS Technics SL-10 like 13 or so years ago and it's been the table in my second system using the included EPS-310MC cart, and while it doesn't get a ton of use I think the stylus is worn at this point so i grabbed a Jico SAS for a technics p-mount MM cart I had laying around and damn if it doesn't sound great! So my vote would be to go with the Jico SAS for your Shure cart.