Best bang for the buck, new/used, decade, $/$$/$$$?

[jamsinalaska]

After reading many many many great threads, I figured I would post this.

We all have various opinions of great options in various price ranges. Why not post your picks in 3 different price ranges, or even best of a decade? I think it will also see how collections have progressed as income grew to paper routes to triple figure incomes. Not everyone can start with a $170,000 Clearaudio Statement.....That's more than a house!

Anyways, I can only list a few. First, an old Silvertone, that was in a console stereo, and free. 1960s I think. It was my great grandfather's and was very nice. I left it to a close friend when I headed north.

The two spinners down below were also free. I think the current value is $35-50?
So i guess since every thing was free, that was the biggest bang for my buck.
Nice gear to start with and I think I'll be going for a Technics 1200 series. Many people like them and they seem to be very good quality for what you spend.
I would like to find a JVC QL-Y5F, $650 on the bay. The local record store uses one....

What era or turntables do you think have the biggest bang for the buck?

 

[grillebilly]

Technics SL 1300's are decent and can be had for under 2 bills.

 

[skandl]

Ill play, first a sanyo console hand me down from my dad at 8yrs old. Pioneer PL-L800 bought by me working summer hire on base in Germany in the 80's maybe about 120.00 cant be sure (gotta love lay-a-way at the base exchange!). Back in to vinyl 10 years or so ago a PL-25A 130.00 perfect shape sold for what I paid, what a great comeback deck should of kept it. Currently 3 mod'd ARXA with ADC LMF2 Grace 707 and MAS-282 also a stock ARXA.

 

[twiiii]

A well maintained TT from the recent past is always a better deal than a new one. Lets face it there is very little that is new today as they tell us that we haven't seen before. It maybe polished up better or use a new synthetic piece here or there, but TT of today and ten years ago are pretty close. You can save a bunch of money on a 10 year old unit. maybe there's a ten year HRX out there that you could pick up for 20 to 25% of an Avenger. Install the latest synthetic am wand and you would still be way ahead. Or you could find a Scout cheap and install the latest feet and arm from a prime Signature. How about installing one of SME latest Arms on an Empire 598? Finding the right deal on a Clear Audio or on one of the Italian tables might be a miracle, but there is always a deal out there for the well educated. And I don't mean someone who reads books, though a little reading might help.

 

[majick47]

I'd be looking for tables mfg from the mid 1970s to the mid 1980s, this was the golden era of analog/turntables with multi millions sold. Since that period there has been little or no improvement in tables other then the high end models, on the lower end it went backwards.

 

[malden]

I'd be looking for tables mfg from the mid 1970s to the mid 1980s, this was the golden era of analog/turntables with multi millions sold. Since that period there has been little or no improvement in tables other then the high end models, on the lower end it went backwards.

I'm familiar with turntables from the mid 1970's, not so much for the mid 1980's. Can you list a few examples of turntables from that era?

 

[Bubbalouie]

I'm familiar with turntables from the mid 1970's, not so much for the mid 1980's. Can you list a few examples of turntables from that era?

August 1976 I bought my first system that included a BIC turntable (I'm thinking either the 940 or 960?) A few years later, I bought a B&O turntable (Cannot remember the model number on this one). The B&O was by far the best of the two turntables, and one I wished I still had. They were ahead of their time in design and performance. The NY Museum of Modern Art had a B&O on display.

In today's market, buyers do not have a good choice to pick from. So, for me I decided to go vintage. I have two Dual turntables, a 721 direct drive and a 1219 idler drive, and they both perform extremely well. The product is very important to consider, but it's also very important who you buy from. For that reason I purchased both Dual tables from Bill Neumann at Fix My Dual who happens to be AK member Bohhey. I did not no this until a few years later, and I am glad I supported a sponsored member.

Bill is the consummate gentleman and a pleasure to talk to and buy from. He has the largest parts inventory for Dual tables in the US. He is a wood worker by trade and he makes his own plinths from Walnut to Oak, and he has the dustcovers made to his specifications.

Another vintage turntable I would recommend is the Acoustic Research made by Edgar Villchur. Take your pick from the XA, XB, or you could choose an ES-1 or the one reffered to as "The Turntable" and other models in between. All of these perform extremely well as stock. However, an AR will preform it's best when you have the turntable modded by one of our gurus, especially if you choose Marc Morin. He will perform his magic of tweaks, upgrades, and modifications. Once all the work has been done, it would be hard to find a turntable that cost upwards of $1,000 to outperform the AR.

A turntable from the late 1960s (the Dual 1219 from 1969) to the mid 1980s (the AR ES-1 from 1983 and 84) were by far some of the best models offered to the consumer. I'm not sure if the turntable will rebound from the days of old. However, all of us who love analog will be hopeful to see the turntable return to its glory. The sale of vinyl in the last few years have continued to rise, and if this trend continues, there is a good chance the turntable market will have a second chance of glory.

 

[Grbluen]

Pioneer Pl-6a. The mechanism deactivates the idler at shutoff. This table has no right to sound this good.
I bought two. Mid 1960s, I think.

 

[savatage1973]

I'd be looking for tables mfg from the mid 1970s to the mid 1980s, this was the golden era of analog/turntables with multi millions sold. Since that period there has been little or no improvement in tables other then the high end models, on the lower end it went backwards.

^^^^ I would have to concur with this. I would also add that specifically the Japanese tables from that time frame include a whole bunch of rock-solid and affordable options--again, because there are so many around and still running strong.

My main three tables are a Linn LP from the mid-eighties (heavily souped-up), a Dual CS-5000 and a Hitachi PS-38 (CEC built from the 70's). The Linn and Dual are belt drives, but the Hitachi is a built-like-a-tank DD.

 

[virak]

A Lenco L75 or L78 can still be had for pocket change with some luck. I bought two minty L78's for $25 each last year. Some elbow grease and a new tonearm is required to get the best from them, though.

 

[bobins08]

Rating used vintage turntables by cost is not a good method. Cost of used equipment is subject to many variables. Two big factors are geography and luck.

Example, I bought as used Kenwood KD 550 for $50. The opportunity to do this again is not realistic.

I prefer to categorize by type, and then suggest models that are known as high performers, with parts available and know-how for repairs accessible.

Belt drive - AR XA/XB, Thorens TD 150/160 are excellent and relatively simple to fix, tune up, or modify to higher heights. A higher end option would be Linn.

Direct Drive - Technics had many models, the SL 1200 is the center piece and I like the MK II models. Pioneer has some good options. Direct drive has a drawback in complexity and parts availability. The Technics tables benefit greatly from the shear volume sold, lots of parts are available from donor tables. There are many excellent Japanese DD tables out there. Keeping them running long term is the challenge.

Idler - the Dual idler tables are a great starting point. Lots of parts and several places to get them tuned up or repaired. Lenco is a tweaker' s delight and Thorens TD 124 is a TOTL model.

There are higher end tables out there like Sota. This is not meant to be all comprehensive but more like a starting point.

 

[4-2-7]

Not everyone can start with a $170,000 Clearaudio Statement.....That's more than a house!

Well where I live and your looking to buy a house, that would be a deposit on a dinky beat up 3 bedroom starter home. Then your paying off another $550,000.00.

What era or turntables do you think have the biggest bang for the buck?

Any era, buying used will yield a better price on the said table. As far as bang for the buck? what's the bang? If something plays a record but it's build quality is junk, a pain to use and sounds like crap but it's cost is low, I see no bang at all. If I'm going to take the time and listen to music, and even more time to play records it better sound great.

Bang for the buck? I feel far far to many people chase turntables around swapping decks looking for better SQ. When really 95% of the time if they own a fairly good working table, the bang for the buck comes from investing in a really good cartridge. However when people look at the cost of lets say an good used table for around $400. And if they have another $600 in loose change for their system they will not put that money into a cartridge. It's to small, I want to see where I spent my money, the table isn't worth that much of a cartridge <lots of excuses. None of witch mention sound quality and really that's the bang in the buck when we talk audio.

Edit.
I didn't mention tables because for one the best bang for a buck, would be used and that's a flexible price point. For instance, I'v seen $3000 tables and the seller asking $1,000, I'v also seen $50 tables with the seller asking $800. The best bang is in the quality for you money. Soooo, the better value here would be the higher buy in price for you money.

 

[jrtrent]

After reading many many many great threads, I figured I would post this.

We all have various opinions of great options in various price ranges. Why not post your picks in 3 different price ranges, or even best of a decade?

I don't consider used turntables to be a good value, at least not for me, unless they've been thoroughly checked and/or refurbished by a trusted dealer or manufacturer. For example, SOTA offers refurbished decks such as the Sapphire, which includes "Refurbished Motor Assembly Series III; Modified Sub-Chassis to current specs; Current style Platter Assembly with new Acrylic Supermat; New Bearing and Sapphire Disk; New Springs; New Drive Belt." I have every confidence that such a deck, with all those new parts and gone over by the manufacturer, will give long life and performance up to factory standard--something I would not be at all sure of buying from a private party.

I'll nominate three new turntables at different price points:

cheap way to enjoy records--Audio Technica LP60
Just $99, or $129 with the USB option. Gives engaging play tor records; with its built-in phono stage, filling a room with sound is as easy as plugging it into the auxiliary jack of a Bose table radio.

all kinds of fun features--Audio Technica LP120-USB
$299.99 and gives you 78 wpm play (with suitable cartridge), pitch control, forward and reverse (got to hear those hidden messages!), built-in phono stage, usb output to digitize recordings, and more.

all the turntable I need--Rega Planar 3 (new version)
$945 without cartridge; I would add the Shure M97xE rather than use one of Rega's own cartridges. Actually, the previous version, the RP3 is what I own and is all the turntable I expect to need for my remaining days. I've owned more expensive turntables (Linn LP12/Ittok, Well Tempered Record Player), but this modest Rega has all the musicality I need to want to play record after record, thoroughly enjoying what the musicians are giving me. The RP3 was a significant improvement to my ears over the previous generation P3-24 (hence the decision to buy it), and my brief time with a new Planar 3 has me thinking it is at least as good as the RP3.

 

[reydelaplaya]

I feel far far to many people chase turntables around swapping decks looking for better SQ. When really 95% of the time if they own a fairly good working table, the bang for the buck comes from investing in a really good cartridge.

Per suggestions from AK members, I upgraded the AT 3450 cartridge that came in my Yamaha to a Denon DL-110. That was quite a bit of $ for my budget, but wow!, cartridge upgrade was the right way to go.

 

[vinyl1]

In the higher price range, old VPI and Linn turntables can be a good value if you know how to restore and upgrade them.

The VPI HW-19 was made for a long time, and lots of parts are floating around. You can pick up one in decent condition for $600-1000, with or without an arm. It is pretty easy for skilled guys to make a new armboard and mount any arm they want. These turntables are simple and easy to work on and customize.

The Linn LP-12 is more of a specialty where you have to know what you're doing, but it's been made for so long there are tons of them out there dating back to the 80s. Older ones can be had for under $1000, but may need skilled labor to bring them up to a respectable level.

 

[jrtrent]

Given that a couple of posters have brought up phonograph cartridges as offering bang for the buck, too, perhaps the OP wouldn't mind our giving three different price ranges for those, too. My candidates would be:

cheap and always sounds at least good--Audio Technica CN5625AL
MSRP of just $29, it made my then-new Rega RP3 sound great when I was disappointed in what I heard using a Rega Bias 2. The CN5625AL has also worked a treat for me in a Linn LP12/Ittok, Well Tempered Record Player, Stanton STR8-80X, and Denon DP-300F. While never the best sound I could get from any particular deck, it could make me happy long-term, and once mounted up, I rarely removed it til the stylus was worn out.

all the cartridge I need--Shure M97xE
Currently sold by Shure for $165, but by many others for $99, it mates very well with my Rega RP3 and the phono stage of my Audio by Van Alstine preamplifier. From my experience and that of a couple others in this forum, I'm thinking there's something special about this cartridge on a Rega arm. TNT-Audio used a Rega RB300 on a Michell deck in their review, and, picking out just the positive comments, they wrote, "As can be gleaned from the frequency response plots the tonal balance darkens progressively towards the treble, a bit like a classic Quad preamp with the 'tilt' control down all three notches and a mite of bass boost. . . The upper bass is full and round, conspicuously present yet tuneful and bouncy. The midrange and treble areas lack some air and definition, but the '97 somehow avoids sounding dull and boring. If anything, the music bursts forth with quite some enthusiasm . . . The treble, while subdued, is quite pure, undistorted, and unstressed. Sibilance is handled well, troublesome 'S'es being reduced to a soft (dutch) 'ch'. This surely is a friendly-sounding cartridge!" The tonal balance suits my system and ears perfectly, and every record in my collection is well served by this cartridge on the RP3, drawing me into the performance and making me never want to stop spinning vinyl (and the $59, easily replaceable stylus is a great plus--I've recently put on my third straight N97xE stylus, and don't plan to use anything else as long as these are being made).

for a different set of strengths--Grado Statement Platinum with Grado PH-1 phono stage
$350 for the cartridge, and it doesn't look like they sell the phono stage anymore, but when I wanted to experience wide, deep stereo imaging with more precise instrument localization and stability, along with excellent dynamics even for low-level background instruments and a sound that was "warm, smooth, full-bodied, non-fatiguing and rich," I couldn't find anything I liked better than this combination used in conjunction with a Well Tempered Record Player.

 

[malden]

...
all the cartridge I need--Shure M97xE
Currently sold by Shure for $165, but by many others for $99, it mates very well with my Rega RP3 and the phono stage of my Audio by Van Alstine preamplifier. From my experience and that of a couple others in this forum, I'm thinking there's something special about this cartridge on a Rega arm. TNT-Audio used a Rega RB300 on a Michell deck in their review, and, picking out just the positive comments, they wrote, "As can be gleaned from the frequency response plots the tonal balance darkens progressively towards the treble, a bit like a classic Quad preamp with the 'tilt' control down all three notches and a mite of bass boost. . . The upper bass is full and round, conspicuously present yet tuneful and bouncy. The midrange and treble areas lack some air and definition, but the '97 somehow avoids sounding dull and boring. If anything, the music bursts forth with quite some enthusiasm . . . The treble, while subdued, is quite pure, undistorted, and unstressed. Sibilance is handled well, troublesome 'S'es being reduced to a soft (dutch) 'ch'. This surely is a friendly-sounding cartridge!" The tonal balance suits my system and ears perfectly, and every record in my collection is well served by this cartridge on the RP3, drawing me into the performance and making me never want to stop spinning vinyl (and the $59, easily replaceable stylus is a great plus--I've recently put on my third straight N97xE stylus, and don't plan to use anything else as long as these are being made).
.

Excellent post regarding the M97xE. I will have to spend some more time with mine.

 

[Bubbalouie]

I don't consider used turntables to be a good value, at least not for me, unless they've been thoroughly checked and/or refurbished by a trusted dealer or manufacturer. For example, SOTA offers refurbished decks such as the Sapphire, which includes "Refurbished Motor Assembly Series III; Modified Sub-Chassis to current specs; Current style Platter Assembly with new Acrylic Supermat; New Bearing and Sapphire Disk; New Springs; New Drive Belt." I have every confidence that such a deck, with all those new parts and gone over by the manufacturer, will give long life and performance up to factory standard--something I would not be at all sure of buying from a private party.

I'll nominate three new turntables at different price points:

cheap way to enjoy records--Audio Technica LP60
Just $99, or $129 with the USB option. Gives engaging play tor records; with its built-in phono stage, filling a room with sound is as easy as plugging it into the auxiliary jack of a Bose table radio.

all kinds of fun features--Audio Technica LP120-USB
$299.99 and gives you 78 wpm play (with suitable cartridge), pitch control, forward and reverse (got to hear those hidden messages!), built-in phono stage, usb output to digitize recordings, and more.

all the turntable I need--Rega Planar 3 (new version)
$945 without cartridge; I would add the Shure M97xE rather than use one of Rega's own cartridges. Actually, the previous version, the RP3 is what I own and is all the turntable I expect to need for my remaining days. I've owned more expensive turntables (Linn LP12/Ittok, Well Tempered Record Player), but this modest Rega has all the musicality I need to want to play record after record, thoroughly enjoying what the musicians are giving me. The RP3 was a significant improvement to my ears over the previous generation P3-24 (hence the decision to buy it), and my brief time with a new Planar 3 has me thinking it is at least as good as the RP3.

Apparently you did not read my post. If you shop and buy wisely, a vintage turntable would be a worthwhile investment. There is nothing on the new market that would make me plunk down my hard earned money. If you're going vintage, you need to deal with a reputable business who has many years of success. Fix My Dual is one of the best examples of offering a vintage turntable that will perform better than some new modern turntables. Both of mine will last me the rest of my life and my children. I would be proud if one of my children or grandchildren will keep the analog music alive.

I wish there would be other people who has experience with other turntable makes, Pioneer, Yamaha, Sansui, JVC just to name a few. This will be good for business and buyers alike. Definitely more options are needed to help the hobby.

 

[Old Guy8]

How about some off brands that sold nice stuff,but lower resale makes for bargains. One, IMO, are Realistic direct drive, Lab 400, 4XX etc and Lab 500 sold around '79 to '82.
I think the manufacturer made similar for Marantz and other labels.
I passed on a Linn LP12, vintage 1979 with Grace arm for $450, I auditioned. I already had one. That was a good price!
(I'm not talking about the barn finds. $20 Thorens or $15 Pioneer PL570. That's just being in right situation. Garage or thrift finds.)
Now cartridges and stylii. I added a N91 Vivid microline Stylus to my Shure M91 on a Lab400. It sounded quite nice.

 

[jamsinalaska]

Well where I live and your looking to buy a house, that would be a deposit on a dinky beat up 3 bedroom starter home. Then your paying off another $550,000.00.

And I though prices in Anchorage were bad! $170K would give you a really nice 4-5 bedroom and atleast an acre in Southern Ohio, about 8 years ago.

Given that a couple of posters have brought up phonograph cartridges as offering bang for the buck, too, perhaps the OP wouldn't mind our giving three different price ranges for those, too. My candidates would be:

cheap and always sounds at least good--Audio Technica CN5625AL
MSRP of just $29, it made my then-new Rega RP3 sound great when I was disappointed in what I heard using a Rega Bias 2. The CN5625AL has also worked a treat for me in a Linn LP12/Ittok, Well Tempered Record Player, Stanton STR8-80X, and Denon DP-300F. While never the best sound I could get from any particular deck, it could make me happy long-term, and once mounted up, I rarely removed it til the stylus was worn out.

all the cartridge I need--Shure M97xE
Currently sold by Shure for $165, but by many others for $99, it mates very well with my Rega RP3 and the phono stage of my Audio by Van Alstine preamplifier. From my experience and that of a couple others in this forum, I'm thinking there's something special about this cartridge on a Rega arm. TNT-Audio used a Rega RB300 on a Michell deck in their review, and, picking out just the positive comments, they wrote, "As can be gleaned from the frequency response plots the tonal balance darkens progressively towards the treble, a bit like a classic Quad preamp with the 'tilt' control down all three notches and a mite of bass boost. . . The upper bass is full and round, conspicuously present yet tuneful and bouncy. The midrange and treble areas lack some air and definition, but the '97 somehow avoids sounding dull and boring. If anything, the music bursts forth with quite some enthusiasm . . . The treble, while subdued, is quite pure, undistorted, and unstressed. Sibilance is handled well, troublesome 'S'es being reduced to a soft (dutch) 'ch'. This surely is a friendly-sounding cartridge!" The tonal balance suits my system and ears perfectly, and every record in my collection is well served by this cartridge on the RP3, drawing me into the performance and making me never want to stop spinning vinyl (and the $59, easily replaceable stylus is a great plus--I've recently put on my third straight N97xE stylus, and don't plan to use anything else as long as these are being made).

for a different set of strengths--Grado Statement Platinum with Grado PH-1 phono stage
$350 for the cartridge, and it doesn't look like they sell the phono stage anymore, but when I wanted to experience wide, deep stereo imaging with more precise instrument localization and stability, along with excellent dynamics even for low-level background instruments and a sound that was "warm, smooth, full-bodied, non-fatiguing and rich," I couldn't find anything I liked better than this combination used in conjunction with a Well Tempered Record Player.

Great post!