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Best digital audio source?

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stevehashair

New Member
I'm working on biulding my first listening system and I don't have a real music collection either. I have a turntable and a CD player, but neither are very good, and I was thinking that perhaps the best source to build my library on may be digital: through a D/A converter on my computer, preferably at 24/96 or similar quality. However, I am wary because I know that most music available for download is not good quality, even if it is purchased legally, and even ripped CD's aren't as good as vinyl. I have heard a little bit about high-res files, but I'm having trouble finding a good site to purchase from... Someone recommended musicgiants.com, but it doesn't say what format the files are in. I've read on some sites about flac files, but they seem to be a compression format, and I want to make sure if I'm paying extra then they're not just ripped from the CD and compressed.. if that was the case I would just buy the CD!

Anyway, I just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts about the best way to build a digital library, and what formats to look for. Thanks!!
 
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I am all digital these days. I have over 100 gigs ripped from my cd's that now just collect dust (the ones I kept and didn't just sell). I do buy new cd's though to rip.

FLAC is what all of my stuff is ripped to. It is not a "lossy" format so it is lossless. That means that it is NOT compressed. The compression of FLAC files refers to the way the files are processed on the computer, not the quality of them. FLAC files are kind of like .Rar files (if you know what those are): all the content/quality is there, but it is in a compressed format that has to be extracted. The computer does that and there is no data lost. It is just like playing the cd, all the data/info is there.

I have never purchased any digital music file from anywhere, and I would never from a site that didn't even tell me what format the files were in! That probably means they are lossy and of lesser quality than lossless (and believe me, if your system is anywhere near good you can easily tell lossy from lossless: My gf and some friends have tested me in a "blind" test several times by playing lossy and lossless files without me knowing which is which with the same songs and I almost always pick the right one--lossy sounds so much worse usually). I just buy (or already had) cd's and then rip from them to FLAC. That way I know that I have cd quality and if my hard drive(s) crashed then I wouldn't lose all my music files (and have to buy them all over again!). I'd just re-rip my collection (what I kept at least, which is the essentials) to another hard drive and copy it to another one (the chance of two hard drives crashing is hopefully fairly low...at least that's what I'm hoping as I only have one for backup).

You are much better off asking your questions here btw (or actually just reading around):

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/

It is a forum dedicated to headphones, but the computer audio section really helped me set up my current system from my computer to my amp(s) and pick out a great DAC (Cambridge Audio DAC Magic).

Also, just google FLAC for a better explanation of it's "compression" than I can give.

Good luck, computer audio is incredible; so damn convenient and sounds great if done right (getting a good DAC and setting it up right...just as good as any cd setup in the same price range, probably better actually since the DAC is where all the money goes, not also the cd hardware/player: that's what free audio players do on your computer!). :thmbsp:
 
start BUYING cds of the music you like. In a very short time you'll have a library of several hours listening. 1st get a single CD player with DUAL hi-performance dacs(24bit/96khz min) check audioadvisor, later a TT if you want. Then if you want to futz around with downloading files and compression and junk and compre what you hear with storebought cds. Just my opinion and NOT shared by all. Do what you want.
edit: just read permanentwaves above and do agree . I have a dacmagic playing my cds and what a difference it makes. Cambridge makes cd players with all the circuitry of the dacmagic built in. See audio advisor.
PS: you can play all your computer music thru the dacmagic, or other dac of your liking. Just be sure to get a GOOD one. not cheep tho, but what is now a daze.?
 
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Permanent Waves said:
FLAC is what all of my stuff is ripped to. It is not a "lossy" format so it is lossless. That means that it is NOT compressed. The compression of FLAC files refers to the way the files are processed on the computer, not the quality of them. FLAC files are kind of like .Rar files (if you know what those are): all the content/quality is there, but it is in a compressed format that has to be extracted. The computer does that and there is no data lost. It is just like playing the cd, all the data/info is there.
Click to expand...

Note to file:

FLAC is a compressed format/file, but it is a lossless compression. Think of lossless compression sort of like scientific notation. Instead of writing 1,000,000,000,000, it is encoded as 1x10^12. So, while it means exactly the same thing, it's just a physically smaller way to represent it.

MP3 is a compressed format/file, but it is a lossy compression. Don't really have a good way to explain this, but perhaps think about it like the "internet lingo" where words are shorted to lesser number of letters/characters. If done properly you still catch the drift/essence of the meaning even though some data is completely missing.

Neither lossy nor lossless file compression have anything to do with the audio compression that be can/is present in almost all music to a greater or lesser degree.
 
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oldhifiguy said:
edit: just read permanentwaves above and do agree . I have a dacmagic playing my cds and what a difference it makes. Cambridge makes cd players with all the circuitry of the dacmagic built in. See audio advisor.
PS: you can play all your computer music thru the dacmagic, or other dac of your liking. Just be sure to get a GOOD one. not cheep tho, but what is now a daze.?
Click to expand...

The DAC Magic is great and seems to be a safe recommendation, for though it's not exactly a budget DAC, it gets all round good to great reviews in general. It's at least a very solid "entry" or "mid-fi" DAC (for me it's more like a "final" DAC).


whoaru99 said:
Note to file:

FLAC is a compressed format/file, but it is a lossless compression. Think of lossless compression sort of like scientific notation. Instead of writing 1,000,000,000,000, it is encoded as 1x10^12. So, while it means exactly the same thing, it's just a physically smaller way to represent it.

MP3 is a compressed format/file, but it is a lossy compression. Don't really have a good way to explain this, but perhaps think about it like the "internet lingo" where words are shorted to lesser number of letters/characters. If done properly you still catch the drift/essence of the meaning even though some data is completely missing.

Neither lossy nor lossless file compression have anything to do with the audio compression that be can/is present in almost all music to a greater or lesser degree.
Click to expand...


Right, what I meant. :thmbsp: :D I was too lazy/tired/stupid to explain it better. :o

Just remember OP that there is a HUGE difference in SQ between lossy and lossless formats. Much of it resides in headroom/clarity for instance, and, more subtly, in micro-details and nuances.

Oh, and welcome to AK btw! :wave:
 
As good as vinyl is, it is a pain to start with vinyl from scratch. Finding good used vinyl is very time consuming. I would still do vinyl, but I would start with CD's since it is much easier to find music. I would skip the CD player altogether and just use your CD player on your computer and rip them to flac. I don't even use my stand alone CD player any more. I would take a couple of hours and go buy used CD's from your local used CD stores first. After you run out of used CD's to buy, you can then start buying the more expensive new CD's. You can then start working on getting your vinyl system in order if you want to go that route.
 
Regarding the original question, the best currently available digital source to the consumers would be SACD and a good SACD player. Compared to CD it's something like comparing DVD to VHS or Blue ray to DVD.

Whether one rips the media onto a music server or PC is actually irelevat. The source is still CD or DVD or SACD (if you can rip that).
 
actually, in the recording industry, assuming physical delivery is desired and non in a "I'm sending my hard drive to you" sort of way (which DOES happen, at least in the mixing stage).... I'd say that cd-24 is the standard used most of the time. It's what many MANY albums are burned to in 2 track and then sent off to the mastering engineer with. It's pretty effective and virtually perfect.

but it's not really a consumer format (although, since I have a studio and cd-24 writer/reader in there, I do use it for my own flac-to-disc burns since I prefer it to standard cd, although most of the time the sound quality it identical to the human ear. Still, the cd-24 format is virtually perfect for 2 track audio. but then sacd and dts audio dvd etc are also virtually perfect... not sure though since I don't specialize in writing those formats.

cheers,
Don
 
oh, and +1 for flac.

flac, ogg and one or two other file formats are lossless and therefore virtually perfect. I listen to both flacs and oggs on my ipod an on my software players when possible. both sound identical to me.
 
Hi Stevehashair,

Computer based music system. If you are a pc person use Exact Audio Copy to rip cds to your hard drive. If you use a Mac rip cd's using itunes with error correction on. When you play back always have computer volume on full. No sound enhancers. For a d/a converter Firestone Audio Fubar is a good inexpensive choice. I had one for a couple years and it sounds better than it should. Start with the best speakers you can afford, all your music on your hard drive a decent vintage amp and the only thing you may ever change is the dac.
 
This is great advice, thanks all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that files ripped from CD are not the best possible digital format? Even if losslessly transferred, it can be no better than the 16bit - 44.1 khz of its original disc... is there any format that is fuller bandwidth? Or am I not going to be able to hear a difference at this point? ...not trying to be an elitist or something, just basing my question of theory and not experience.

SaSi, you mentioned SACD, which seemed promising. That is the kind of thing I'm talking about, which draws directly from the analog or master source, rather than from a 16/44 format, but according to my brief lookup, is highly copy-protected and virtually impossible to rip. Maybe there is a website out there that sells original 1-bit files like SACD?

And DKelly, what is CD-24? is that a 24bit audio format?
 
Don't forget to keep it simple. As a first, digital makes the most sense, rip CDs in a lossless format. Get a decent pair of headphones. As for vinyl: I personally love vinyl because I love thrift store treasure hunts and like the increased connection that it gives to the music I love. If that interests you, start building a collection over time. I'm on the economy end of things. I think if you cruise the thrift stores long enough, you can build up a decent, if slighty retro system.
 
stevehashair said:
SaSi, you mentioned SACD, which seemed promising. That is the kind of thing I'm talking about, which draws directly from the analog or master source, rather than from a 16/44 format, but according to my brief lookup, is highly copy-protected and virtually impossible to rip. Maybe there is a website out there that sells original 1-bit files like SACD?

?
Click to expand...

SACD is a physical format only. You cannot rip the SACD layer. CD is a mature technology and can sound just fine, and just about everything released in the last 30 or 40 years is available on cd. I wouldn't worry about bandwidth limitations, as properly mastered cds sound great. Remember, the earliest adopters to cd were classical buffs, and that music is far more demanding of the format than is pop or rock music. And cds are cheap and can be ripped to your hard drive.

If you plan to go the digital server/dac route, you could start with used cds and move towards hi rez digital as it becomes available.
 
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stevehashair said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that files ripped from CD are not the best possible digital format? Even if losslessly transferred, it can be no better than the 16bit - 44.1 khz of its original disc... is there any format that is fuller bandwidth? Or am I not going to be able to hear a difference at this point? ...not trying to be an elitist or something, just basing my question of theory and not experience.
Click to expand...

It's true, the inherent bit/sample rate of the CD is 16/44.1, but that IMO doesn't automatically mean that all CDs suck and are unsuitable for ripping. The format itself that you normally rip is WAV, which is the pure, uncompressed music...it's as good as the CD is. Then, many people convert them to some type of compressed file from there, either lossy or lossless.

IMHO, CD is not different from records in regard to good vs. bad. While I have only a relatively small number of records, some just plain don't sound as good as others. Same with CD. Some sound very good, some don't.

There are high res files on HDTracks.com, but depending on your preferred genre, the selection may not be too large.

Whether or not you will truly hear a difference is really something only you can ascertain.
 
There are several online vendors selling hi resolution 24/96 (some even higher) digital downloads in lossless formats. I have downloaded a few samples of these files and the sound is excellent. This is probably the wave of the future in audio. The emphasis is on the files format not the storage medium. Personally I think these 24/96 beat SACD, and work nicely with music servers.
 
Here are a few companies offering high definition audio downloads:
HD Tracks
Naim Label
Linn Online
iTrax
Music Giants
High Definition Tape Transfers (Classical)
Gimell (Classical)
Magnatune (independents)
Deutsche Grammophon (Classical, select Catalogue, then Format -> Download FLAC Lossless)
https://www.hdtracks.com/
http://www.2l.no/hires/index.html

More information link:
http://hifi-stereo.suite101.com/article.cfm/highquality_audiophile_download_services#ixzz0cmTolRi7

I was able to download some sample files from HD tracks after registering on their web page.
Enjoy.
 
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