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Best Fisher Upgraded Receiver

sony6060

Super Member
Banned
This question comes up from time to time and I have not chose a best Fisher receiver in the past. After a year of modifying Fisher receivers, I and a few other listeners came to a conclusion of the best sounding Fisher receiver in the 400, 500 and 800 series.

Although all Fishers have a signature sound I give a slight edge to the Fisher TA-800. Others heard the 400, 500 & 800s, but not this TA-800. I believe the TA-800 phase splitter design allowing a simple socket adapter & Amperex 6BL8 replacing the 7199 completes the TA-800 upgrade. Without the 6BL8, the TA-800 still will perform better at higher volumes on unforgiving speakers. At lower volumes and using the 7199 the TA-800 is about equal to the 500B & 800B sound.

Next is the Fisher 500B & 800B series. The group prefer these B series to the C series due to a more lively sound.

A very close 3rd place is the Fisher 400 41000+ serial number. Being of similar design of the 500B & 800B, the difference is likely the audio transformers and perhaps the 7868 vs the 7591 power tubes plays a small part.

4th place is the 500C & 800C. A smoother sound comes forth from the C series. These models do not have a fault, just a little more reserve vs the other receivers. Some may prefer the C series and the speakers play a large part in the final sound too.


Other noteworthy comments.

The better speakers used in the comparison were JBL 300, SET12 highly modified Klipsch Forte and the stunning midrange of Wharfedale W90s with crossover upgrades. Frankly, stock Klipsch Forte are not a contender in this group of speakers. The modified Klipsch Forte are just ok, produces very good bass. The Wharfedale W90 bass is a little light.

All receivers uses the same brand of tubes agreed upon with the group as good performers (less that 6BL8) and the same agreement using various coupling capacitors. Excellent performing coupling capacitors were picked from an affordable lot. Most expensive were Mundorf Silver/Oil.

A modified Fisher is superior to stock Fishers. The group agrees here. In fact almost no comparison.

Now, the wrinkle in this post. I prefer a stock Fisher 500C or 800C vs stock 400, 500B & 800B unmodified Fisher receivers. The smooth response shines, the others are a little rough sounding. Jury is still out on stock TA-800 vs stock 500C or 800C.

Any of the Fisher receivers are a fine product. From an outside point of view, the wives likely believe we are are all crazy.
 
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What upgrades in particular are used to compare the models?

Rebuilt power supply with over 3x capacitor energy storage. That is fine, does it play better into the audio transformer with 200 ohm primary resistance for better bass?

Dual 4700uF vs 1000uF in bias supply makes for about zero hum in phono using 98dB sensitive speakers with volume turn up all the way. One outside of the group reported this. How much the better filtering adds to the audio in phono is unknown. The coupling capacitor change is a known fine improvement.

Mix of K40Y-9 and Vitamin Q coupling caps. Fine tuning has most prefering the Vitamin Q or Mundorf Silver/Oil on the power tube grids. I can go either way.

Brimar CV4004 single wing plate (older Mil-Spec) with Westinghouse 12AX7 a close second in phono. These are the USA manufactured short narrow plate.

Mullard 12AX7 long plate with RCA 12AX7 black plate a close second in the preamp input and tone control preamp section. Either are excellent. Mullard project the instruments a little more forward with a little more harmonic structure. Expensive tubes vs the RCA.

Tung Sol 12AX7 long plate in the phase splitters.

Sylvania 7868 or 7591 power tubes. Some say Westinghouse 7591 are better. Jury is out on this. RCA 7868 black plate seem to have a slight edge, but I only have four RCA 7868 black plate. Never seen RCA 7591 black plate tube. The EH 7591 are good, but edge still goes to the Sylvania. One listener stated a little more than a slight edge to the Sylvania. All power tubes were NOS or very healthy. Weak power tubes are bad news.
 
So what will you possibly do once my TA-800 is on its way back to me? Will you be settling listening to a 400? :D

Thanks for posting your thoughts Jim. :thmbsp:
 
A very close 3rd place is the Fisher 400 41000+ serial number. Being of similar design of the 500B & 800B, the difference is likely the audio transformers and perhaps the 7868 vs the 7591 power tubes plays a small part.


Any particular reason why you specify 41000+ serial numbers as opposed to 400's with lower numbers?
 
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Units on the left side of the rack aren't getting much air time now.



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Rebuilt power supply with over 3x capacitor energy storage. That is fine, does it play better into the audio transformer with 200 ohm primary resistance for better bass?

Dual 4700uF vs 1000uF in bias supply makes for about zero hum in phono using 98dB sensitive speakers with volume turn up all the way. One outside of the group reported this. How much the better filtering adds to the audio in phono is unknown. The coupling capacitor change is a known fine improvement.

Mix of K40Y-9 and Vitamin Q coupling caps. Fine tuning has most prefering the Vitamin Q or Mundorf Silver/Oil on the power tube grids. I can go either way.

Brimar CV4004 single wing plate (older Mil-Spec) with Westinghouse 12AX7 a close second in phono. These are the USA manufactured short narrow plate.

Mullard 12AX7 long plate with RCA 12AX7 black plate a close second in the preamp input and tone control preamp section. Either are excellent. Mullard project the instruments a little more forward with a little more harmonic structure. Expensive tubes vs the RCA.

Tung Sol 12AX7 long plate in the phase splitters.

Sylvania 7868 or 7591 power tubes. Some say Westinghouse 7591 are better. Jury is out on this. RCA 7868 black plate seem to have a slight edge, but I only have four RCA 7868 black plate. Never seen RCA 7591 black plate tube. The EH 7591 are good, but edge still goes to the Sylvania. One listener stated a little more than a slight edge to the Sylvania. All power tubes were NOS or very healthy. Weak power tubes are bad news.

Thanks for detailing all this Sony, appreciate it!
 
You guys rock... Don't know what I'd do without you. :D

So, how about the 500C/800C models? I've read/heard talk about the earlier ones being a little different from the later ones (the earlier ones having miniature tubes in a certain part of the circuit versus the later ones, which I think had those Nuvistors instead). My 800C is from early '64, so it's a pretty-early one. Whatever the case, it's got a very-musical, lively sound.

By the way, my 800C is currently at Urban Antique Radio getting a full overhaul. The power tubes will be n.o.s. Sylvanias. Still not sure what preamp tubes they'll have yet, but the power tubes were the important thing, since I don't know how to re-bias. One way or another though, they will ultimately have the magic combination of preamp tubes, since I can apparently swap those in and out at my leisure without re-biasing

And yes, the W90's definitely share some wickedly-good synergy with tube-era Fishers... I personally love the bass of my W90's. I must admit, I added some bass-lift on some music, but keep in mind that my 800C had only been partially-restored and had a tube set that was thrown together from used vintage tubes. But one of the things I love about the Fishers is their EQ section and the way you can tailor it to different kinds of music. I never found myself wanting for bass OR treble. The Fishers AND the W90's are both extremely-flexible in that regard. A lot of people forget, but raising/lowering the W90's midrange and tweeter levels equally is the same as having a level control for the two 12" woofers (since the woofers are totally-isolated from the mids and tweeters above), and that's how you set the bass level. Between that and the bass and treble knobs on the Fisher, I get whatever I need.
 
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Ha!

She was just afraid she might have to feed those musicians.

To me the best Fisher receiver is the one I happen to be using . . . because they're all good.
 
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About the TA-800 that Sony6060 was talking about, does that one have a tube rectifier like the TA-600? I've heard some say that the TA-600 was very-musical and lively, so I figured perhaps the TA-800 was designed the same way.

I'm going nuts waiting for my 800C to be finished...
 
About the TA-800 that Sony6060 was talking about, does that one have a tube rectifier like the TA-600? I've heard some say that the TA-600 was very-musical and lively, so I figured perhaps the TA-800 was designed the same way.

I'm going nuts waiting for my 800C to be finished...

The TA-800 uses a solid-state voltage doubler that is identical to the later Fisher receivers. I prefer the SS voltage doubler with the higher output Fisher products. The SS rectifier allows higher capacitance input capacitors vs a tube rectifier and stock value filter capacitors for superior PS regulation.

The GZ34 rectifier with low internal resistance for good regulation is well within specifications for the lower power Fishers with EL84 tubes. I use a CLC configuration (adding a choke) where space permits to provide superior filtering without exceeding the recommended input capacitor value that shortens the life of the GZ34 rectifier tube.

There is a difference in-between restoration and upgrades. Upgrades includes restoration for reliability, but upgrades with better coupling capacitors, tubes and a stiff power supply sounds better per the few dozen owners that heard the difference. Some stated 'night & day' difference.

It is easy and ultimately less expensive to order a load of $1 coupling capacitors from Mouser and drop in any convenient replacement tube from an existing stock of tubes. Perhaps that is why some techs rebuild for reliability only.

It is becoming well known the phono stage upgrade is far superior with replacement K40Y-9 and Vitamin Q coupling capacitors plus select 12AX7s for the phono section.

The TA-800 does sound exceptional in factory stock condition.
 
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The TA-800 uses a solid-state voltage doubler that is identical to the later Fisher receivers. I prefer the SS voltage doubler with the higher output Fisher products. The SS rectifier allows higher capacitance input capacitors vs a tube rectifier and stock value filter capacitors for superior PS regulation.

The GZ34 rectifier with low internal resistance for good regulation is well within specifications for the lower power Fishers with EL84 tubes. I use a CLC configuration (adding a choke) where space permits to provide superior filtering without exceeding the recommended input capacitor value that shortens the life of the GZ34 rectifier tube.

There is a difference in-between restoration and upgrades. Upgrades includes restoration for reliability, but upgrades with better coupling capacitors, tubes and a stiff power supply sounds better per the few dozen owners that heard the difference. Some stated 'night & day' difference.

It is easy and ultimately less expensive to order a load of $1 coupling capacitors from Mouser and drop in any convenient replacement tube from an existing stock of tubes. Perhaps that is why some techs rebuild for reliability only.

It is becoming well known the phono stage upgrade is far superior with replacement K40Y-9 and Vitamin Q coupling capacitors plus select 12AX7s for the phono section.

The TA-800 does sound exceptional in factory stock condition.


I have impressed a few visitors with the TA-800, and Cornwall combination, there was a local guy that came to buy my JBL-4311's that had to hear Dark Side Of The Moon album played on the TA-800. He was floored by the sound, and I must admit, I have never heard that album sound better. I actually think the TA-600 has a slight edge in the dynamic highs, but the 800 with its extra power is better overall. The 600 paired with my modded Heresy's sounds very good as long as you run the loudness button in, it really gives the Heresy the extra bass signal it needs to sound balanced. The 600 probably sounds the best paired with my Frazier Concerto's, they put the Heresy to shame.

All I know is, I have not paid much attention to my SS equipment since Jim did these Fishers for me. His quest for the best sound is truly impressive. :thmbsp:
 
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