• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Best way to set anti-skating?

R

RosserClark

Active Member
I have had a turntable of one kind or another for most of my 50 years, but I don't have a definitive answer for this. My current turntable (Kenwood drive, Sony PS-X6 arm) has a spring-type anti-skating device. You know, you turn the little wheel to match the number to whatever your tracking force is.

What I want to know is -- is there a more reliable way to set the anti-skating? Somehow I don't thing the little dial is precisely calibrated to the spring.

Thanks.
 
Register to hide this ad
RosserClark said:
I have had a turntable of one kind or another for most of my 50 years, but I don't have a definitive answer for this. My current turntable (Kenwood drive, Sony PS-X6 arm) has a spring-type anti-skating device. You know, you turn the little wheel to match the number to whatever your tracking force is.

What I want to know is -- is there a more reliable way to set the anti-skating? Somehow I don't thing the little dial is precisely calibrated to the spring.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

There are several way, one being electrically and rather involved.

The most straight forward is with a good test record that includes a blank area for roughing in and bias tracks for fine tuning.

http://www.vinylengine.com/hfn-002-test-lp.shtml

I have an older version, works very well. I also use it in conjunction with a Cardas test disc as the Cardas record has wider blank tracks.

Expensive records but very worthwhile to own if you are even remotely serious about analog.

Jim
 
Last edited:
I found these notes about the HFN002 test record at the vinylengine link:

"Bias setting (300Hz tone L+R at +12dB / +14dB / +16dB)

These tracks are for setting anti-skate. If the 300Hz test tone is heard distorting or buzzing on either channel then your 'anti-skate' or 'bias compensation' should be adjusted to compensate. Most cartridges seem to sail through the first track regardless, but fine tuning will be needed to successfully complete the 14db and 16dB tracks. Increasing VTF towards the top end of the cartridge manufacturers scale can improve tracking here."

Some folks dispute the notion that anti-skate force can be set correctly by adjusting for minimum mistracking at high recorded amplitude. I still have an open mind on this topic, and I would like to see some evidence to support the opposing camp's view.
 
BinaryMike said:
Some folks dispute the notion that anti-skate force can be set correctly by adjusting for minimum mistracking at high recorded amplitude. I still have an open mind on this topic, and I would like to see some evidence to support the opposing camp's view.
Click to expand...

It's a losing game. The record and a blank grove to well to evenly distribute sidewall force.

Then, after that, every pressing is different.

More time than it's worth can be wasted on this one, just like VTA.

Find a happy spot and forgetaboutit.

Jim
 
is there a more reliable way to set the anti-skating? Somehow I don't thing the little dial is precisely calibrated to the spring.
Click to expand...
even if it were precisely calibrated...it would be at best..a compromise setting..because the sideways thrust acting on the stylus tracing a rotating record groove...varies with relation to its position across the records surface...

the exact force needed to keep the stylus acting with equal force against the groove walls.is constantly changing as it moves from outermost to inner most groove...and as the groove itself constantly undulates under the stylus surface..add gentle warps and temperature and compliance and tracking force..and you see the problem that faces the designer of any antiskate system...a constantly shifting variable set of forces acting upon the stylus across a record's surface..

like all things to do with turntable setup..you just have to a find a happy medium that sounds good...which is usually best done by ear once you have a reasonable amount of antiskate dialed in....you seldom if ever need more than your downforce setting..but do experiment 1/10 gm at a time...while listening critically...

..then forget it unless you hear something undesirable from the stylus..or see any visual suggestion that it isn't anything but perfectly vertical as it tracks a record..:scratch2:
 
RosserClark said:
I have had a turntable of one kind or another for most of my 50 years, but I don't have a definitive answer for this. My current turntable (Kenwood drive, Sony PS-X6 arm) has a spring-type anti-skating device. You know, you turn the little wheel to match the number to whatever your tracking force is.

What I want to know is -- is there a more reliable way to set the anti-skating? Somehow I don't thing the little dial is precisely calibrated to the spring.

Thanks.
Click to expand...




you don't have a "definitive" answer because there is no definitive answer. you start with the anti-skate at the same number as the tracking force (if t.f. is 1.5 grams, set anti-skate to 1.5), and you make adjustments in either direction from there. i recommend your using the TELARC OMNIDISC. there is a track on the lp specifically for dialing in your antiskating setting.
 
BinaryMike said:
I found these notes about the HFN002 test record at the vinylengine link:

"Bias setting (300Hz tone L+R at +12dB / +14dB / +16dB)

These tracks are for setting anti-skate. If the 300Hz test tone is heard distorting or buzzing on either channel then your 'anti-skate' or 'bias compensation' should be adjusted to compensate. Most cartridges seem to sail through the first track regardless, but fine tuning will be needed to successfully complete the 14db and 16dB tracks. Increasing VTF towards the top end of the cartridge manufacturers scale can improve tracking here."

Some folks dispute the notion that anti-skate force can be set correctly by adjusting for minimum mistracking at high recorded amplitude. I still have an open mind on this topic, and I would like to see some evidence to support the opposing camp's view.
Click to expand...

There was a recent thread on Audiogon titled VPI Classic & ZYX 4D (cartrudge)
Towards the bottom of this thread, vinylphile guru Doug Deacon gives the best explanation I have ever heard-read in regards to setting Anti-Skate.

I will try in a nutshell, and will try (probably horribly) to explain what he so well says.

The tracks you speak of were specifically designed to make a Cartridge-Stylus "mistrack". They were not designed to see if a Cartridge will succeed in tracking them, and if it doesn't then one has an evident problem. Hi Fi News so poorly explains on how these tracks are to be used, but the facts are, that some cartridges might track the first-second tracks, and that rarely any will make it though all these tracks, which are much more torturous than any tracks you'll find on musical passages.

That it is not a measure of how well a cartridge tracks, or how good a cartridge is, by its ability, or lack of, to make it though all the tracks. This is not the goal that is to be attained.

That by resorting to raising vertical tracking forces, all you'll succeed in doing, is killing the optimum sound that any cartriidge can deliever, by resorting to tracking forces that would most likely be beyond the manufacturer's suggested range. Or be far beyond where any given cartidge should actually be tracking in regards to VTF.

So, the proper way to set Anti-Skate with such tracks, is to optimally first set VTA, and VTF. Commonly this range will most likely be midway between the suggested range once the cartridge is broken in.

That when one uses these tracks, to then note the breakup-distortion, which will be noted, but to note which channel begins to break up first. To adjust so that both channels break up evenly, at the same time. That is the key.

Then, go about listening to music.

It is correct that anti-skate forces vary across a record. One has to compensate the best they can. This is one flaw of the pivotal arm, no getting around it. Mark
 
Last edited:
Hi,
I agree with Big Bill. Skating force is a force that is constantly varying because it is directly related to the stylus to groove friction. Since the groove modulation is constantly changing, so is the friction and so is the skating force. The best you can do is reach a usable compromize. Your ear will tell you when skating force is reasonably compensated by listening for mistracking.

Notice I did not say correct. There is no correct.

Sparky
 
Somewhere I read that observing the cantilever head on while playing a record is a reasonable method. As you lower the needle into a grove; does it pull the carts suspension to one side or the other. Seems to work for me.
 
When I bought my first TT it didn't have anti-skate. My next table had one scale for anti-skate. The next had one for elliptical and conical styli and then four scales for elliptical and conical styli both dry and wet. Kind of maddening.

Just to throw in that there are a lot of things that effect skating that are not grove velocity and VTF.
 
markd51 said:
That when one uses these tracks, to then note the breakup-distortion, which will be noted, but to note which channel begins to break up first. To adjust so that both channels break up evenly, at the same time. That is the key.
Click to expand...

So this is a vote for the camp which says that ASF may be optimized by adjusting to minimize mistracking at the threshold of mistracking. Now, a question for those who simply adjust by ear and fuggedabodit: Are you doing anything fundamentally different from this? If you're not adjusting for best freedom from mistracking, then what are you adjusting for? Do you hear something change as a function of ASF that is definitely not the sound of mistracking?
 
HI,
Personally, I have not worried about anti-skating since about 1974. I've had nothing but linear trackers. Right now a ET2.5 air bearing arm. Skating force is a PITA which is best avoided.

Sparky
 
I want to thank the OP for creating the thread so I would read it, and especially Markd51 for the post.

I have a buddy in WVA who is tearing his hair out over distortion on his table. He has adjusted the Anti-Skate till it was wearing out and still hearing distortion on the Hi-Fi News... LP. I copied Mark's post and sent it to him.

He is VERY happily listening to music now. BTW, I have a linear tracker and it buzzes on the anti-skate tracks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom