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Bi-wiring via separate speaker outs

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pocketrabbit

New Member
I have a pair of Linn Tukan 6" speakers as my mains. They are set up for bi-wiring, and it is recommended by the manufacturer. Is there any reason I can't do this via the main and remote speaker outs on my Marantz receiver? That is, as long as I don't need the remote outs for another pair of speakers. It seems like it would be simpler and cheaper than using special bi-wiring cable from one pair of outs.

Thanks!
Steve
 
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Your mains and remotes are putting out the same signal. Unless there is something that you are not telling us about your receiver that would give different frequencies at each output. Some surround receivers the output to large and small speakers can be adjusted.
I think we need to know more. Have you tried it yet?
Ed
 
pocketrabbit said:
I have a pair of Linn Tukan 6" speakers as my mains. They are set up for bi-wiring, and it is recommended by the manufacturer. Is there any reason I can't do this via the main and remote speaker outs on my Marantz receiver? That is, as long as I don't need the remote outs for another pair of speakers. It seems like it would be simpler and cheaper than using special bi-wiring cable from one pair of outs.

Thanks!
Steve
Click to expand...
No need for "special bi-wiring cable" just two pairs of speaker cables connected together at the amp end and separately at the speaker end. Either way you are talking about two pairs for each speaker.
 
Ed,
That's what bi-wiring is, sending the same signal separately to the mids and tweeters. I don't understand the physics of it, but separating the signal at the source end is supposed to improve the sound quality.

Darkblue,
Thanks, it still seems like clamping the wires into separate connections would be easier than trying to shove them both into the same speaker outs. Or for that matter wiring them together into pin connectors. What do you think about using the main and remote speaker outs to feed to each pair of inputs on the speakers?
 
pocketrabbit said:
Ed,
That's what bi-wiring is, sending the same signal separately to the mids and tweeters. I don't understand the physics of it, but separating the signal at the source end is supposed to improve the sound quality.

Darkblue,
Thanks, it still seems like clamping the wires into separate connections would be easier than trying to shove them both into the same speaker outs. Or for that matter wiring them together into pin connectors. What do you think about using the main and remote speaker outs to feed to each pair of inputs on the speakers?
Click to expand...

But, using remote or B terminals or whatever, almost always adds extra switch and or relay contacts to the signal, not to mention more of that dinky little wire inside the amp/receiver.

I should think pursuit of higher fi would endeavour to reduce contacts, not increase the number in the chain. Thus, it is my opinion, if one is going to biwire, it's best done by using one set of terminals at the amp, not two, considering those added contacts and dinky wire between.
 
whoaru99 said:
But, using remote or B terminals or whatever, almost always adds extra switch and or relay contacts to the signal, not to mention more of that dinky little wire inside the amp/receiver.

I should think pursuit of higher fi would endeavour to reduce contacts, not increase the number in the chain. Thus, it is my opinion, if one is going to biwire, it's best done by using one set of terminals at the amp, not two, considering those added contacts and dinky wire between.
Click to expand...

Thanks, sounds reasonable to me!
 
Use the main and remote outs, that is fine. The speaker signal comes through the same relay contacts, is split across the speaker selector switch, so you will be drawing less current across each speaker selector switch contact when you wire to main and remote. You are essentially using the contacts in parallel. No harm in using both speaker outs and it is much easier than trying to stuff both wires in the same terminal (especially those Marantz spring-loaded terminals!) or creating a Y for your speakers.
 
SaturationPt said:
Use the main and remote outs, that is fine. The speaker signal comes through the same relay contacts, is split across the speaker selector switch, so you will be drawing less current across each speaker selector switch contact when you wire to main and remote. You are essentially using the contacts in parallel. No harm in using both speaker outs and it is much easier than trying to stuff both wires in the same terminal (especially those Marantz spring-loaded terminals!) or creating a Y for your speakers.
Click to expand...

But, you still incur the added contact resistance, et al. which is contrary to one of the aspects of biwiring. If one is considering the minute details then the differences between normal wiring and biwiring is lower reistance of biwiring. It doesn't jibe to add some of that resistance back by going through more contacts.
 
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:lurk:
Never caught the gist of bi-wiring.

Maybe it's the combined heavier wire gauge that does the trick?:dunno:
 
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Which Marantz receiver do you have? I'd like to understand what this "remote" is.

If it is just another name for B speakers, then using it for the high frequency drivers gives you some flexibility. Supposing you wanted to diagnose a problem with the woofers in your speakers, you could simply deselect remote and listen to just the woofers.

Until I see the model, however, I'm not suggesting anything.

Regards,
Jerry
 
whoaru99 said:
But, you still incur the added contact resistance, et al. which is contrary to one of the aspects of biwiring. If one is considering the minute details then the differences between normal wiring and biwiring is lower reistance of biwiring. It doesn't jibe to add some of that resistance back by going through more contacts.
Click to expand...

Just the opposite. If you are considering the two sets of contacts in the speaker selector, they are in parallel, two resistors in parallel will decrease the resistance (which is I believe one of the benefits).
 
onplane said:
Which Marantz receiver do you have? I'd like to understand what this "remote" is.

If it is just another name for B speakers, then using it for the high frequency drivers gives you some flexibility. Supposing you wanted to diagnose a problem with the woofers in your speakers, you could simply deselect remote and listen to just the woofers.

Until I see the model, however, I'm not suggesting anything.

Regards,
Jerry
Click to expand...

You are correct, Marantz used "Remote" for B speakers ("MAIN" and "REMOTE"). This is consistent with my 2285 and 2325.
 
Here is is the best description I have read on bi-wiring:

Bi-wiring works by reducing of the tendency for strong bass signals to overwhelm the rest of the audio signal. The larger, more powerful bass signal can greatly affect the integrity of the much lower-energy components of both the midrange and fragile treble information. Running separate wires from the amplifier can have a profound impact on relieving the tweeter circuit from the back flush of EMF (elector-motive force) generated by the woofer. When the audio signal to the woofer ceases, such as when a loud bass note is finished, the woofer tries to stop moving. In trying to stop, it actually goes through a process of "settling" because it is too massive to just stop instantly. As it settles, it moves forward and backward repeatedly until it can completely come to rest. During this movement, as the voice coil is moving through the field of the magnet, it generatesits own signal. That generated signal is sent backward up the woofer wires and into the crossover, where it corrupts the rest of the music signal.
 
SaturationPt said:
Just the opposite. If you are considering the two sets of contacts in the speaker selector, they are in parallel, two resistors in parallel will decrease the resistance (which is I believe one of the benefits).
Click to expand...

The contacts are in series with their respective loads, thus additive.
 
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CKDC said:
Here is is the best description I have read on bi-wiring:

Bi-wiring works by reducing of the tendency for strong bass signals to overwhelm the rest of the audio signal. The larger, more powerful bass signal can greatly affect the integrity of the much lower-energy components of both the midrange and fragile treble information. Running separate wires from the amplifier can have a profound impact on relieving the tweeter circuit from the back flush of EMF (elector-motive force) generated by the woofer. When the audio signal to the woofer ceases, such as when a loud bass note is finished, the woofer tries to stop moving. In trying to stop, it actually goes through a process of "settling" because it is too massive to just stop instantly. As it settles, it moves forward and backward repeatedly until it can completely come to rest. During this movement, as the voice coil is moving through the field of the magnet, it generatesits own signal. That generated signal is sent backward up the woofer wires and into the crossover, where it corrupts the rest of the music signal.
Click to expand...

It is an interesting read. However, there is no isolation of back EMF (or whatever it might be) because the crossover sections can still "talk" to each. Consider at the most basic level biwiring amounts to long jumpers between the HF/LF terminals instead of short jumpers right at the speaker.

My point is not to dissuade anyone from doing it that's so inclined. In fact, I encourage experimentation.
 
FWIW, I recently bi-wired my Epos Epic 2s and Exposure 2010s (which is built for bi-wiring.) I believe I heard an improvement.

At this point, it is set up that way so it will stay that way. Until I get an strange urge to do further experimentation.
 
What CKDC says is kind of correct, just remember there are no bass-signals in any cables, just power from the amp. But the strong low signals will disturb the smaller high-frequense signals so by separating the high-tone drivers terminals from the low it will get a cleaner signal.
 
I googled "advantages of bi-wiring" and "disadvantages of bi-wiring" and I think I feel a headache coming on:rolleyes:

It's nice to know the science behind the idea but as with most anything, it seems the best way to find out if it works for you is to try it yourself.
 
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A blind listening test could sort it out. One of the benefits of losing my memory - I will set it up today, and forget which configuration I used tomorrow when I hear it. Perfect!
 
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