• Please note that Audiokarma will be offline briefly for updates early on Monday morning, September 28th.

BIC 960 vs new sub $300 turntable - Which is better?

MacNoob said:
Sounds like that's a private-label Shure M75. A fine cartridge well worth a replacement stylus.
Click to expand...

That's correct. The M73PED is an excellent sounding cartridge and extremely versatile, there are a number of needles for it that will allow you to tailor it to just about any turntable. You'll want a stylus with the prefix of N75.

@Zigzagger , since you are new to vinyl, you may want to start with a conical stylus which has a medium compliance....

https://www.jico-stylus.com/product_info.php?cPath=18&products_id=1018
 
I don't dwell too much on stylus shape any more because the past 1000 or so albums I've acquired have been used therefore less than pristine in most cases. Although some cartridges I own have fine line ellipticals, it is mostly "fat" ellipticals or conicals that get the most use and I track them at 2 grams or higher. On one table, I have a Stanton 500 variant with a D5 (elliptical) stylus tracking at 3 grams. There is a Pickering and an ADC (both conical) mounted on others. All three sound good to me and get the most use.

If most of the records I currently play were mint or close to it, I'd probably lean more towards using the table with a Shure V15 on it.
 
Progress!! I talked to Adam today at Turntable Experts, thinking that once I got the platter off I might need a new belt (he said I don't), and he told me to keep at it with the hair dryer and just rotate the platter a little at a time and it would eventually come loose. It did indeed. I have since cleaned the gummed up parts with Naptha. Those Youtube How to Repair Your BIC 940 videos are pure gold. Will re-lubricate and reassemble tomorrow. I ordered the LP Gear stylus replacement. So far I'm only out of pocket a whopping $44 for the stylus and now I know how to work on my deck. Many thanks to all those to encouraged me to do it myself. I wouldn't have otherwise and it saved me the $100-$200 I was quoted over the phone by a local repair shop. I've now got "extra" cash to spend on what matters most: the music.
 
Last edited:
beatcomber said:
My very first turntable, back in 1978, was a BIC 960.

I'd love to find another one (cheap) just for nostalgia's sake. Many happy memories associated with it!
Click to expand...

Well, wouldn't you know it, as a result of this post a local AK'er has offered me a very clean BIC 960 at a price I can't refuse. It looks just like the one I had 40 years ago... I get misty-eyed just looking at it!

I need another turntable like I need a hole in the head, but sometimes you just have to say YES. :deal:

We're still working out a time when we can meet up, but I look forward to revisiting my audio past.

IMG_20180318_162503.jpg
 
beatcomber said:
Well, wouldn't you know it, as a result of this post a local AK'er has offered me a very clean BIC 960 at a price I can't refuse. It looks just like the one I had 40 years ago... I get misty-eyed just looking at it!

View attachment 1166747
Click to expand...
It looks like the platter mat's underlayment is transparent. Very cool. I've also seen that done in BIC red and blue for a bit of flash. Makes me wish mine had the "stylus chopper" mat !

To the OP, you're starting with a great table. There's something peculiarly lovable about the BIC's, not just bc they were USA-made, but bc BIC had their own way of doing things, deliberately engineered different from the Japanese and European counterparts. They had a way of doing more with seemingly less. I don't have the link, but there's an excellent sales brochure that described BIC's unique solutions that's worth reading. It'll help you further appreciate what you've got.
 
Last edited:
RedShift42 said:
It looks like the platter mat's underlayment is transparent. Very cool. I've also seen that done in BIC red and blue for a bit of flash. Makes me wish mine had the "stylus chopper" mat !
Click to expand...

It's just real shiny black. It's actually clear plastic painted black on the other side so it's basically mirror-like. But yes, I have seen the one (I think it was a guy on here that did it) with red and blue, too. It's kind of neat.

Another interesting tidbit, BIC had the disk shiny side up on tables through about 1976 and then flipped it over from about 1977 on so the duller black paint showed on top. It would have been easy enough to flip it over, however.

Doug
 
Doug G. said:
Another interesting tidbit, BIC had the disk shiny side up on tables through about 1976 and then flipped it over from about 1977 on so the duller black paint showed on top. It would have been easy enough to flip it over, however.
Click to expand...

A ha! I was wondering about that, because I'm pretty sure that the one I had in '78 had a matte surface.
 
They had many complaints about those damn wagon-wheel mats, so eventually marketed a solid after-market replacement.
 
P1010046.JPG P1010049.JPG I have 2 960's both great TT. The 1st one I bought had a serious problem last year. Mice got into it and destroyed the platform. I totally dismantled it and sanded the deck, primered it and panted it gloss black.. Lubed it all up as I was reassembling it and it is now fine. I still have to clean up the mat some, this is the original mat and until I got the 2nd TT I did not realize there was a wagon wheel mat. I need a dust brush for the stylus as they ate the bristles off of it. I have a Stanton 681EE in both tables. The 2nd table I rescued at the town dump. I have been using that one in a second system in my office. It has the wagon wheel mat.
 
beatcomber said:
Well, wouldn't. you know it, as a result of this post a local AK'er has offered me a very clean BIC 960 at a price I can't refuse. It looks just like the one I had 40 years ago... I get misty-eyed just looking at it!

I need another turntable like I need a hole in the head, but sometimes you just have to say YES. :deal:

We're still working out a time when we can meet up, but I look forward to revisiting my audio past.

View attachment 1166747
Click to expand...

Isn't that pretty! I feel that way about my Garrard Zero 100. I would like to bring it upstairs. Play it everytime I am in the shop. Working perfectly. Sadly, so is my daily driver 1219. It was acting up. Replaced the audio cables. Glued the cracked underneath it where the cables hook in. Then cleaned the contacts on the arm. The Dual was back working perfect. Had several BICs a couple of years ago. No room at the Inn. Sold one and gave one away. Both ended up in NYC.
 
Hunted11 said:
View attachment 1167039 View attachment 1167040 I have 2 960's both great TT. The 1st one I bought had a serious problem last year. Mice got into it and destroyed the platform. I totally dismantled it and sanded the deck, primered it and panted it gloss black.. Lubed it all up as I was reassembling it and it is now fine. I still have to clean up the mat some, this is the original mat and until I got the 2nd TT I did not realize there was a wagon wheel mat. I need a dust brush for the stylus as they ate the bristles off of it. I have a Stanton 681EE in both tables. The 2nd table I rescued at the town dump. I have been using that one in a second system in my office. It has the wagon wheel mat.
Click to expand...

Funny my first 960 came from the local landfill. My buddy there saved it for me. Perfect. Didn't not have the wagon wheel platter. Fixed the 7 inch set down issue and good to go. Gave it away as I had no place to go with it. Went to a good home!
 
OK, the good news first:

* I tore the whole thing apart per the youtube videos, degreased, regressed and reassembled. It was much easier (and more fun!) than I was expecting ... with the exception of the dang platter mat.

* I scored a set of pristine Avid 100s from the original owner off CL today. For the time being, I don't want to tear apart the system that the B&Ws are attached to and I like the idea that these Avids are period correct. They also have a reputation for very clean, uncolored sound and I listen almost exclusively to jazz ... so I'm stoked.

The bad news:

* When I popped off the motor cover to maintenance it, I noticed there is no "magnet assembly" at the top of the shaft as is referenced in the repair videos at 2:50 (
) ... it seems damn near impossible that anyone has ever opened that motor case before ... could this simply be a difference between the 940 that is being worked on in the video vs my 960? It's a little disconcerting.

* With everything back together I reassembled, plugged it in, set a record on the spindle, set the program switch to 1 and hit the cycle button. The platter spins (yeah!) and the record dropped ... but the tone arm doesn't move (yes, its unlocked) and after about 20 seconds or so the program switch automatically drops down to manual. Any ideas What might be wrong?

* Lastly, is there is a trick to getting the @#*&! mat back on? I have literally spent 30 solid minutes trying to get it hooked in properly but the last 2/3 is impossible. At one point I thought I had it but a spin on the turntable made it clear that it was not tight all the way around.

I appreciate any guidance. Thanks much.

ZZ
 
Last edited:
On the top (side nearest to platter) of the main cam gear there is a trip pawl. It starts the cam gear moving for stop/start. It has a pivot which must be dry and clean - no oil or any other lubricant. Anything present can prevent it's moving freely which in turn prevents the cam gear from engaging.

The mechanical sequence of events is described towards the end of the service manual.
 
The original mat on the original 900 series BICs was not the spoked mat. It was continuous all the way around. That was only during the first two years, 1974-1975. They then switched to the spoked mat. The continuous mat made its reappearance with the Z series tables. The VIA series had a real rubber mat with grooves around it.

The motors for the 940 and 960 are identical. The "magnet assembly" he's talking about is the round structure on the shaft and it is attracted and repulsed by the coils in the stator (he mistakenly calls the rotor, the stator). Your motor HAS to have that in there or it would not run.

If the tonearm doesn't move upon operating the cycle from the cycle button, something is drastically wrong because the arm lever, underneath (the one that follows the slot in the big red cam), acts directly on the tonearm. It's not like Duals with the steuerpimpel. Any force relief, if the tonearm is blocked from moving, is provided by a spring.

The last few inches of the mat just needs to be forced down over the platter lip from one end to the other.

Doug
 
Well ... can't seem to figure out the tone arm situation. It lifts a little, actually moves to the right (away from the spindle) then moves a little bit back towards the spindle and sets down. Then the program selector clicks down one notch from wherever it was set. Here's what it looks like. The second video is a little closer up.

1.

2.

I'm stumped.

ZZ
 
I have all the manuals. I tried the set down adjusting screw; that's what gave me the little bit of movement towards the spindle I didn't have before, but didn't solve the problem. The screw is pretty tight. The tone arm assembly is the one (major) part I didn't take apart as I was under the impression it wouldn't suffer from the stuck-grease affliction that the rest of the moving parts had. I'm wondering if I'm going to have to.
 
Just a thought, but are you able to smoothly swing the arm all the way to the lead out grooves?

When you say "tone arm assembly" are you referring to the arm itself on the top side or the controlling mechanism on the underside? I would almost guarantee the problem is below deck. If you have not taken anything apart, your stuck grease theory might be right. I for one would be hesitant in removing or taking apart the tonearm

If you have disassembled stuff, maybe things did not go back together the same way they were supposed to?

In the service manual, have you read "analysis of the mechanism" sub-sections "cycle button" and "automatic cycle"?

A lot to do at the same time but have a look through that, compare the quoted part numbers with the exploded diagram then watch those parts in operation. The table must be out of the base and elevated like maybe with 3 strategically placed soup cans and mirror and bright light would help.

While looking at the underside, slowly swing the tonearm inwards and watch what parts move and if there's an obstruction. When you start an automatic cycle, you can also see what moves and hits or what supposed to move but doesn't.

I don't know this table well enough to comment further. What I do in such cases is study things while in motion until I can identify the problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom