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Black Widow cartridge recommendation

Blue Shadow

Blue Shadow

Waiting for Vintage Gear from this century
Ron has a KD-500 with the ∞ Black Widow arm, feeding a Quintessence preamp, Kenwood L-07Ms and Maggies. He expressed an interest in a moving coil cartridge.

Is there an MC, high or low output that can be matched properly to this ultra-low mass tonearm?

Is there a cartridge that will give the sonic qualities of an MC but work well with the arm?
 
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I run a Jvc QL50 w/adc lmf-2 tonearm & Audio Technica AT30E/G which I believe is similar to the BW in mass.

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The Audio Technica AT30E/G is a low output moving oil cartridge that holds it's own pretty well against the Denon DL 103R which I also own. Of course finding one is another story...But if you do the beauty of this cartridge is that it has a fully replaceable stylus that LP gear still stocks...
http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=LG&Product_Code=ATSAT0030E

Good luck and I hope that was useful...
 
The only high compliance MC I know of is the GAS Sleeping Beauty made in the late 70s.

The BW is very low mass. Best match would be a cartridge that has a recommended TF of 1.25 g or less. I'm using a AT ML170 in mine and its rec. TF is 1.25.
 
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I have this same arm/'table. If not for the hum issue, Grado cartridges would work fine. I used a Reference Platinum for a while and had zero tracking or resonance issues and the sound was great, but there was a low hum that was audible between tracks that eventually grew tiresome. I'm currently using a NOS Adcom HC-VdH II HOMC cart that seems to work just fine. I haven't noticed any tracking or resonance issues.

I've spent a fair bit of time using the Resonance Evaluator on The Cartridge Database to figure out the cartridge mass that should work well with the Black Widow arm. I have a Clearaudio Arum Beta Mk II (MM) that by the Resonance Evaluator should work, but I haven't had the time to mount up yet. Maybe I'll try to do that tonight or tomorrow and report back.

I wonder how the Audio Technica AT-OC9 LOMC would work? It has the low VTF (1.25-1.75 g) that seems to be preferred with this arm, and cartridge weight is 8 g. Might be worth investigating.
 
Blue Shadow said:
Ron has a KD-500 with the ∞ Black Widow arm, feeding a Quintessence preamp, Kenwood L-07Ms and Maggies. He expressed an interest in a moving coil cartridge.
Is there an MC, high or low output that can be matched properly to this ultra-low mass tonearm?
Is there a cartridge that will give the sonic qualities of an MC but work well with the arm?
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The effective mass of the metal-tube BW is around 4g, and the carbon fiber version is under 4g. During its heyday, the "match made in heaven" for the BW was the ADC XLM I with a compliance of 65x10-6 and a VTF of 0.5-0.75. I've never seen an MC cartridge that has come anywhere close to that.
 
Tedrick said:
I wonder how the Audio Technica AT-OC9 LOMC would work? It has the low VTF (1.25-1.75 g) that seems to be preferred with this arm, and cartridge weight is 8 g. Might be worth investigating.
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Good show! Exactly what I was going to suggest. :thmbsp:
 
gkimeng said:
The effective mass of the metal-tube BW is around 4g, and the carbon fiber version is under 4g. During its heyday, the "match made in heaven" for the BW was the ADC XLM I with a compliance of 65x10-6 and a VTF of 0.5-0.75. I've never seen an MC cartridge that has come anywhere close to that.
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You're right--not even close. There are some Empire styli that track at .5-1.5, (median 1g). Turntableneedles sells an Empire body so it's still possible to put together something interesting.
 
hakaplan said:
Good show! Exactly what I was going to suggest. :thmbsp:
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Yup - OC9 was my first thought for MC.

But there are great MI cartridges like the Voice, some from Clear Audio and a few others. Why go MC when you can run the best MI out there?
 
Looks like I may have to loan him a KD-650 with a slightly heavier effective mass arm if he really wants the MC sound. Think he would want to swap!!! Upgrade to the smooth quartz lock on the table and an arm that can use a MC cartridge!! How would I sell that?

No worries, he is smarter than that.
 
hakaplan said:
You're right--not even close. There are some Empire styli that track at .5-1.5, (median 1g). Turntableneedles sells an Empire body so it's still possible to put together something interesting.
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Extremephono's Koetsu-based HCMC cartridges track as low as 1g. But the darned things start at $1900 each.
 
This tonearm is extreme low mass. The GAS Sleeping Beauty Moving Coil was the only MC I ever saw that worked decently in a Black Widow tonearm. The main cartridges I know of used successfully in one were MM cartridges like the Shure V15 III, IV, and V, Ortofon OM 20, 30, and 40 and the upper end Audio-Technicas. Also the ADC XLM line was nice in a BW arm.
 
KentTeffeteller said:
This tonearm is extreme low mass. The GAS Sleeping Beauty Moving Coil was the only MC I ever saw that worked decently in a Black Widow tonearm. The main cartridges I know of used successfully in one were MM cartridges like the Shure V15 III, IV, and V, Ortofon OM 20, 30, and 40 and the upper end Audio-Technicas. Also the ADC XLM line was nice in a BW arm.
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The Sleeping Beauty was a rebadged Coral 777EX, and according to the cartridge database, its compliance was 15x10-6. That may be high for an MC, but compared to the highest-compliance MMs of the BW's time, it's pretty low. I'm surprised to hear that it worked well in the BW, but if it did, that may open up the list of modern MCs that might work in the arm.
 
spyderx said:
Hmmm... maybe we can rig this baby up???? :D

Friend took this pic in his back yard. Made a home near his BBQ!

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I've been trying to talk my girlfriend into letting me have one of those for a pet, although I've had trouble finding one around here. I'm not joking, either.:yes: Beautiful picture!

Anyway, I know about as much about the BW tonearm as the average AKer. I can't see how many - if any - MC cartridges would mate well with it. But here we have a confirmed successful match with a Grado Platinum, I'd say go for that!
 
I found the Ortofon OM 30 and especially the Shure V15VxmR worked very well on my Black widow. While too light for most MC, interestily the owners manual shows a Denon 103 mounted on it!

Russellc
 
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