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Bookshelf speaker upgrade?

1

1987cp

New Member
Hello all! I'm hoping to get some more recent input on modern bookshelf size speakers with good projection. For the system in question, I'm currently using Klipsch KG.5 as fronts with a 12" home theater sub (minus the original plate amp), powered by a 4 channel rack mount amp, all in a space the size of a really long living room. I like the KG.5s very well, but I want a little more power handling capacity in a similar form factor. Currently considering several models of small speakers, inluding JBL Studio 530 and Klipsch RB61, and various more conventional-looking bookshelf designs.

The use is for a virtual church pipe organ system, which in a nutshell means I use my computer and MIDI controllers to play organ sounds, something very much like this:
I'll list the rest of the sound system in my signature in just a minute. I found a REL HT-1205 with a dead plate amp for a good price, so I sealed the back with plywood and hooked it to channels 1 and 2 (bridged), with the Klipsch fronts on channels 3 and 4. I am really liking my results so far, but what seemed like a little speaker crackle during some recent testing and practicing suggested to me that I might be wanting to push the little KG.5s slightly harder than they really like.

Looking through some JBL and Polk 100W bookshelf models, I came across the Studio 530, which is an unusual design and can be had for a manageable price used. I found a lot of interesting older threads on AK, my favorite comment being this one which characterizes them as "musically involving", which might be just about perfect!
 
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You might consider the ADS SuperOne. About the same size as your KG .5's, but with a little less sensitivity (86db vs 90db) and more power capabilities (125w vs 50w).
I'd recommend used as, IMO, the newer 2.1 version is not as good as the original (I've had both, and sill have the originals). I'm always amazed at how much good, quality sound comes out of those little boxes. There's almost always some for sale on ebay, at very reasonable prices.

Here's a review (of the original). https://www.hifi-classic.net/review/nht-superone-530.html
And specs for the new (although I'd guess the specs to be the same for the original). https://www.nhthifi.com/products/superone-2-1-bookshelf-loudspeaker-single

Nicely played hymn. :thumbsup:
 
rickb119 said:
You might consider the ADS SuperOne. About the same size as your KG .5's, but with a little less sensitivity (86db vs 90db) and more power capabilities (125w vs 50w).
I'd recommend used as, IMO, the newer 2.1 version is not as good as the original (I've had both, and sill have the originals). I'm always amazed at how much good, quality sound comes out of those little boxes. There's almost always some for sale on ebay, at very reasonable prices.

Here's a review (of the original). https://www.hifi-classic.net/review/nht-superone-530.html
And specs for the new (although I'd guess the specs to be the same for the original). https://www.nhthifi.com/products/superone-2-1-bookshelf-loudspeaker-sing
Click to expand...

That looks like an interesting option! I've been pretty happy with the sealed sub, too.

(The YT vid wasn't me, BTW - I'll have to figure out how to record something one of these days, but I doubt it'll be that accurate!)

Quadman2 said:
What price range are you willing to go to?


Q
Click to expand...

I'm thinking maybe in the $300s for starters, since that's doable in the near future, and probably not more than $500. I've got a bit in the gear stack so far, but by far the most expensive single item was $450. Unless speakers are like rifle scopes, "spend half as much on the sight as you did on the rest of the rifle"?
 
I like that this Speakers subforum has so much activity! I was able to spend some time reading some older threads on various speaker models, and haven't cleared up options much but have added some interesting options to my list. My practical concern is probably obvious - speakers that sound great or ever overwhelming in a small room may get lost in a bigger room. I'll have to get a measurement of the actual space I play in when I next have a chance.

Other models now on the radar:

Klipsch RG5
Klipsch RP600M
NHT 1.5 (sounds like it's like a SuperOne but with a more forward sound?)
KEF Q series (the idea of a really nice coaxial seems interesting)
Elac Debut 2.0
Jamo C103

Supposedly my local BestBuys have in stock: Sony SSCS5, KEF Q150, Klipsch R-50-M, Martin Logan MO4IBL, DefTech Promonitor 1000 (some virtual organ guys really like DefTech's bipolar towers), so hopefully I can find time to stop in there soon. I also just found out about a vintage audio store in a nearby town that seems to deal in all sorts of stuff, so possibly I could learn quite a lot by visiting them. Another thing I've found discussed on AK is the concept of using a PA speaker for hifi, though it's easiest to find passive PA speakers that are large, pricey, and rated for several hundred watts minimum.
 
The NHT SB3, on proper stands fills a 20x13 sloped ceiling 9-17ft side walls, very well when placed where the big speakers go which is out in the room properly. Haven’t tried em ‘on bookshleves‘ yet. Run out of power handling when really loud, not quite wanting the full 185 watts from the amp. Specs say 150 or so In specs. The newer C3 went three-way and is better but hard to find at good used prices.
 
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RP 600M ll
I have a set of the mark 2’s they sound amazing and get a lot of love in online reviews. They have a few upgrades from the first edition. Here’s a video of audiophile Steve Gluttenberg explaining the difference
 
What's everyone's opinion of a website called SpeakerDecision.com? They have info on a lot of different speakers, and among other things they claim to rate a speaker's suitability for a given space (near field, <100sqft, 100-220, 220-400, >400sqft). This seems like an interesting datum, only I'm suspicious of their rating the SVS Prime Satellite as "average" for a "very large" room and the much larger SVS Prime Bookshelf as "poor" in the same space, with the Klipsch RP-600M II, which from what I've found most places seems to be a fairly heavy hitter, supposedly most useful in a "small" space.

On the other hand .... https://www.avsforum.com/threads/sv...stem-official-avs-forum-review.1937161/page-2
 
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Speaking of space ... I finally measured the space. It's not a great situation, but here goes ....

The area where I want reasonable sound is about 25' square, with 8' level ceiling and currently kept filled with about 40 padded pew chairs. Speakers are currently maybe 6-8' from the back wall and close to the side walls, toed in and tilted back in an unscientific attempt to get reasonable dispersion. The total space is over 50' long, but "somewhat audible" is more than sufficient sound level for the far end.

Not sure if that helps any with recommendations for highly affordable speakers that hide out of the way easily, but it's information I've been meaning to collect anyway.
 
1987cp said:
I like that this Speakers subforum has so much activity! I was able to spend some time reading some older threads on various speaker models, and haven't cleared up options much but have added some interesting options to my list. My practical concern is probably obvious - speakers that sound great or ever overwhelming in a small room may get lost in a bigger room. I'll have to get a measurement of the actual space I play in when I next have a chance.

Other models now on the radar:

Klipsch RG5
Klipsch RP600M
NHT 1.5 (sounds like it's like a SuperOne but with a more forward sound?)
KEF Q series (the idea of a really nice coaxial seems interesting)
Elac Debut 2.0
Jamo C103

Supposedly my local BestBuys have in stock: Sony SSCS5, KEF Q150, Klipsch R-50-M, Martin Logan MO4IBL, DefTech Promonitor 1000 (some virtual organ guys really like DefTech's bipolar towers), so hopefully I can find time to stop in there soon. I also just found out about a vintage audio store in a nearby town that seems to deal in all sorts of stuff, so possibly I could learn quite a lot by visiting them. Another thing I've found discussed on AK is the concept of using a PA speaker for hifi, though it's easiest to find passive PA speakers that are large, pricey, and rated for several hundred watts minimum.
Click to expand...

I have Klipsch RP-600m with modded crossovers (the Mk II fixes this)
Also have the ELAC DBR 6.2

They are both great speakers for the $.

If you have the room for larger speakers, a cheap vintage speaker is the New Large Advent. They sound better than they should... They made a bunch, so not hard to find.
 
Had an unfortunate experience at one of the Best Buys in my area. They had a few complete demo systems out in the showroom: the cheap Sony 3 way family, the JBL Stage family, the Klipsch RP family, and KEF 3-channel with sub. Unfortunately, the first three setups were set up with a computerized touchscreen demo doohickey which connected the speakers only in set configurations and played only 4 or so tracks of really bad pop music. No effort to take into account what the products might be used for, and the sales guy didn't care when I wanted to hear the RP500 (I think?) as fronts. The KEF setup looked more promising since it was hooked to a fancy Denon receiver of some sort, but at first it wasn't working at all, then they got some (even worse IMO) pop music playing via a TV or something that seemed to be about 75% hiss, so I couldn't tell if it was the equipment or the track selected, and the guy pretended to be unable to disable the center and sub and seemed keener on playing on his mobile device. This was a definite downgrade from my first visit to a Best Buy about 18 years ago when I was shown various specific models of product - which, granted, was still frustrating because I only knew anything about the relatively antique speakers I grew up with and couldn't find anything remotely similar on the floor (and probably gave the poor saleslady a weird look because I had never heard of "Klipsch!").
 
Sounds like a big mess. I’d look for a mom and pop type store. I’ve stumbled across a few places in my area that sells used equipment and lets you listen to it before buying.
 
Yeah, for sure.

I visited a place today that's the polar opposite, a little downtown place called "Vintage Audio", full of all sorts of interesting gear at what looks like reasonable prices.

I didn't want to spend a lot of time today, but so far I'm rather taken with a pair of B&W DM602 (1995-1999) for $400. (Found a nice looking pair of the same on the Bay for $440 + $146 shipping, so a much better deal than that, anyway.) They have quite a variety of other things, from some tiny RCA 3-way towers to some two-year-old Heresies for like $1000 off retail, multiple pairs of Advents and 5-driver Sansuis, KG4s, KG2s, Omegas with the whizzer cone, and also some giant electrostatic panel speakers. You get the idea. The salesman was kind enough to say I'm raising my kids right since they walked all around looking (but not touching) and asking interesting questions. Now I need to funnel some funds in that direction so I can upgrade my home CD and tape decks!
 
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Sounds like a great place. Im looking to upgrade my cassette deck also. Got some good info here on AK. Do a search for “sleeper cassette decks” member Blackharp started a thread a few months ago that got a lot of replies. Im leaning towards an older 3 head deck maybe a Harmon Kardon in the 200 to 300 dollar range
 
Just thought I'd update. Long story short, I bought the B&W 602s for $350. I auditioned them in the store. The salesman put on a very good chamber jazz CD, and the first impression was that someone had plunked an invisible upright bass player just inboard of the righthand speaker, with the small drum kit behind and the saxophone player more forward and center-left. I also tried the organ track posted above, played on my iPhone 12 via a cheap headphone adapter, but I mostly just saw a massive contrast in source quality. To be fair, the demo CD player was a big McIntosh, but maybe with any decent quality portable DAC the contrast would be less extreme.

I ended up bringing the speakers home around the time my wife wanted to marathon all three Lord of the Rings movies, so we watched those over the stereo after some extensive testing with CDs over my old Sansui. Lots of good to say about the B&Ws, but the biggest takeaway was being actually able to make out the dialog in all those scenes where Gandalf is muttering under his breath, without having to turn the volume up crazy loud. It was like the background music and sound effects were still there, actually even more present than I'd experienced before, but that across the room, the actor seemed to be speaking quite distinctly very close to my ear. Everyone was slightly annoyed that I still intended to take the new speakers to church, but I've partly made up for it by wiring my KLH 33s and Klipsch KG.5s in parallel. My son has now claimed the living room receiver as the practice/experimentation station for his Microkorg. I experimented briefly with the biwiring gimmick, running leads from both speaker system outputs on the receiver, but results were inconclusive (and maybe a bit weird because I couldn't lay hands on four speaker wires the same length?).

Testing so far with the church system has also been highly successful, maybe just not as dramatic as at home. The bass balance seems best with the crossover around 65Hz, which is interesting to experience while playing because now the sub isn't doing nearly as much all the time. Less muddy. Getting quality signal to the crossover seems to be key - I isolated a terrible crackle in my Behringer X802 mixer, so I swapped in the gigantic Mackie CFX16 we'd previously retired (has a couple of dead channels, besides being far more complicated than needed at present) until I such time as I can take further action. Both the organ sounds and the Microkorg are sounding really good there.
 
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