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Bookshelf vs floorstander

mufster

mufster

Well-Known Member
Medium sized room. Floor standers with 3 x 5" bass drivers, 1 mid and 1 tweeter vs large bookshelf with 1 x 15" bass driver and an adjustable tweeter. Is it realistic to hope that bookself speakers can sound better if they are high quality one's. i.e twice the cost of the floorstanders. I just can't get my head around even high spec'd bookshelf speakers sounding as good as say medium quality floor standing speakers. I may have missed the mark by a mile and probably have, but surely a floor stander with all that size, bass and mid would always out perform a bookshelf.

Paul
 
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Urizen said:
Check out these links regarding Hoffman's Iron Law. A bookshelf with lower efficiency could possibly have better bass performance than a high efficiency floorstander.

http://www.audioroundtable.com/PiSpeakers/messages/21661.html

http://ldsg.snippets.org/appdx-a.php#HOFFMAN
Click to expand...


Thanks for those links Urizen. So basically it's saying that bookselves can't be as good as large floor standers as they would have to make a compromise and the size of the box is the most vital. So a small bookshelf would have no chance as the box it's in is, well, small I suppose? So a large bookshelf i.e 2ft x 1 ft x 1ft would have a better chance. Did I get it or did I miss the target by a mile?

Paul
 
mufster said:
Did I get it or did I miss the target by a mile?
Click to expand...

Paul, you've got part of it. As you read, there are three parameters involved with HIL; box size, low frequency extension and efficiency. For example, I have a set of smallish 2-way stand mounted monitors that go almost as deep as a pair of Klipsch La Scala I used to own. The monitors give up close to 20dB in efficiency compared to the La Scalas to achieve similar bass response.
 
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Urizen said:
Paul, you've got part of it. As you read, there are three parameters involved with HIL; box size, low frequency extension and efficiency. For example, I have a set of smallish 2-way stand mounted monitors that go almost as deep as a pair of Klipsch La Scala I used to own. The monitors give up close to 20dB in efficiency compared to the La Scalas to achieve their bass response.
Click to expand...

Ah, right I see. So if a pair of monitors have say +16dB on the frequency response, this is to compensate for the loss of dB they would normally have to give up?

Paul
 
Ok, think I've got it now. So if it's a small enclosure then the speakers will need to have low end extension and high efficiency. Small with low efficiency would not be so good as I assume low efficiency means the volume has to cranked up and thats where distorsion can occur. If I'm still missing the mark then best to leave it as it seems apparent I'm never going to get it.

Anyway, the crux of my question is aimed at this speaker. Does it look like it could hold it's own against a mid level floor stander?
http://www.audio-extasa.eu/technics-sbrx50-coaxial-flat-speaker-system-p-969.html
http://www.audioscope.net/technics-sbrx50-coaxial-p-1403.html
 
mufster,

the iron law that ken brings up allows the three following scenarios:

low bass, small box, inefficient.
small box, efficient, very little bass.
low bass, efficient, big box.

You cannot create low bass and make it efficient in a small box.
 
Perhaps this is an oversimplification but I'll throw it out there anyway.

When designing a speaker, there are three things you would like:

1) Small Size
2) Deep Bass Extention
3) High Efficiency.

Physics dictates you can't have all three.

Choose any two.
 
dnewma04 said:
mufster,

the iron law that ken brings up allows the three following scenarios:

low bass, small box, inefficient.
small box, efficient, very little bass.
low bass, efficient, big box.

You cannot create low bass and make it efficient in a small box.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. Explains it better. So which of the three does those speakers I linked to come under.

Paul
 
The freq response specs are strange. 30-48khz + 16dB is very very strange. That said, it's not a big enclosure so if it's truly producing 30 hz, it's inefficient.
 
whoaru99 said:
Which matches up best with the combinations listed?
Click to expand...

I thought it looked like low bass, small box, inefficient but then I've already proved I know nothing so didn't want to embarrass myself any more than I already have!

Paul
 
Thanks everyone for all the comments and help. Especially the patience. Noobs are the worse thing in the world, especially one's quite obviously lacking in IQ. So I'll say thank you very much and be on my way.

Paul
 
Strange indeed

dnewma04 said:
The freq response specs are strange. 30-48khz + 16dB is very very strange. That said, it's not a big enclosure so if it's truly producing 30 hz, it's inefficient.
Click to expand...
I have to assume that 30 hz is at the negative 16 db end of the range, which would make it all but inaudible in relation to whatever is used as the zero db reference, most likely somewhere around 1khz.

IOW, it's a pretty useless spec.
 
I think a big factor is the room size. I've got a large pair of floorstanders and in my computer room the bass can be a bit boomy, but for my living room there perfect. For smaller rooms I think bookshelf speakers offer a more balanced sound. In the end the biggest factor is the quality of the drivers, something like ScanSpeak, Morel, SEAS, Vifa would sound good in any enclosure.
 
The biggest factor (IMO) is a box/driver match and a good crossover.

I've heard some of the relatively inexpensive Dayton drivers sound very, very good when properly implemented.
 
I think whoareu is on the right track, my DCM Timeframe TF-400s have nothing special drivers, but sound great due to their transmission line design and sophisticated cross over network.
 
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