Bryston question

[Montycat]

I would absolutely love to have a Bryston amp if I could justify the price and use the power.

When I worked in a stereo shop in around 1978, we sold Bryston (as well as Hafler pre/power amps and and other integrateds). An anecdote that I remember from the owner (or maybe the Bryston rep) was that April Wine used to use Bryston 4B amps in their touring kit...50 of them! Bridged in mono, that's around 50,000 watts of very clean power.

I don't know for certain that that was true and I am not saying that because April Wine (or any band) used them that "they must be good" but I thought it was neat.

 

[charles 1973]

I consider an Audio system about $5,000 + for one source, Amp and Speakers in Stereo to be a luxury. It is by no means necessary to spend that much money with one source. To be honest, something like a Rega Brio-R Amp (I mentioned in an earlier post) with a pair of Monitor Audio RX-6 Towers and a Music Hall MMF 5.1se Turntable should do a great job. It's all relitive of course but in my mind this would be the point of diminishing Returns.

It's no different than other activities or hobbies if your trying to justify the cost. Some spend $25,000+ on a Motorcycle or Classic car. Even a lens for a camera can easily cost as much as Rega Brio-R Amp. If you enjoy the hobby, then spend the cash if you've got it like you would on any other activity.

 

[MoTeD]

i wasn't impressed with the 4B-ST either. obviously a lot of people like it, but in my setup i found it neutral/uncolored to the point of boring, while the bass wasn't all it was cracked up to be either IMHO. i was excited to try out this amp, too. the 4B-ST only has ~22,000uF/channel of capacitance, which is a little small by some peoples' standards for a 200Wpc bulletproof bass-monster.

there is a lot out there in the $1k range. what is your wattage requirement? if you need high power, i can recommend the PS Audio Delta 250 monoblocks that worked so well for my taste and needs. lower power (50Wpc) opens up the option of Class A, which you can get with a Forte Model 4 as an example.

Thank you for that because the 4B was what I was planning on purchasing. My biggest hang up was not so much with the price, but the number of them on the used market.

I am running JBL 250Ti's rated at 400watts. Not that I would ever drive them that hard. I am going to borrow a pair of BK sonota series M-200 and see how they measure up. I tried a PS Audio HCA-2 and it was phenomenal except I missed the super highs. Then again I did not have the room in this configuration.
I have heard that the 250Ti is not very tube friendly but I am thinking about getting a Jolida FX10 to test that theory.

 

[HamDog]

MoTed, I can see your dad has Gallo Reference 3.x speakers. I have the Gallo Reference 3.5's in my system (I work part-time for a Gallo dealer). Those speakers are very inefficient and need tons of power. The Bryston 7B is a powerhouse and those Gallo's will eat it all up. I just sold my McIntosh MC-207 (7x200 watts - current model) because it wasn't enough for the Gallo's! And I live in an apartment!!! I now have a Bryston 4BSST2 (for the front two channels - stereo audio listening) and it absolutely blows away the $8,000 McIntosh MC-207 in terms of power.

Your advantage is that your JBL's are much more efficient. You can get away with less power. Don't know what kind of sound you're looking for (tube or SS). But it may be a good idea to try tube on the pre-amp and SS for the amp. Although JBL's are efficient enough to use with a tube. Even the Bryston nay-sayers are saying the Bryston was too neutral! I see that as a good thing! It doesn't add any coloration, just reproduces the music.

Knowing that you listen to Rock & Roll, I would highly suggest a tube pre-amp with a solid state amp. Unfortunately you're gonna have a real hard time competing with your dad's 7B amps. Those are monster power houses at about 500 watts each. But you do have the edge in speaker efficiency. So a 4B may just pull it off.

And to the person comparing Bryston to a PA amp: ARE YOU NUTS???? Bryston is used in the best recording studios around the world. PA amp? LOL!

BTW, I work for a dealer and we don't carry Bryston. But I just love their amps. As i said above, I have the SST2 powering my Gallo 3.5 speakers. I've tried various McIntosh, Krell, CJ, Levinson (and they're all great amps), but the best bang for the buck is always Bryston. And their warranty blows away all the others.

Good luck! Just remember this is a fun hobby and enjoy it. Keep your eyes open on Craigslist, E-Bay, and Audiogon. Once in a while you'll find a really good deal on Bryston.

 

[MoTeD]

MoTed, I can see your dad has Gallo Reference 3.x speakers. I have the Gallo Reference 3.5's in my system (I work part-time for a Gallo dealer). Those speakers are very inefficient and need tons of power. The Bryston 7B is a powerhouse and those Gallo's will eat it all up. I just sold my McIntosh MC-207 (7x200 watts - current model) because it wasn't enough for the Gallo's! And I live in an apartment!!! I now have a Bryston 4BSST2 (for the front two channels - stereo audio listening) and it absolutely blows away the $8,000 McIntosh MC-207 in terms of power.

Your advantage is that your JBL's are much more efficient. You can get away with less power. Don't know what kind of sound you're looking for (tube or SS). But it may be a good idea to try tube on the pre-amp and SS for the amp. Although JBL's are efficient enough to use with a tube. Even the Bryston nay-sayers are saying the Bryston was too neutral! I see that as a good thing! It doesn't add any coloration, just reproduces the music.

Knowing that you listen to Rock & Roll, I would highly suggest a tube pre-amp with a solid state amp. Unfortunately you're gonna have a real hard time competing with your dad's 7B amps. Those are monster power houses at about 500 watts each. But you do have the edge in speaker efficiency. So a 4B may just pull it off.

And to the person comparing Bryston to a PA amp: ARE YOU NUTS???? Bryston is used in the best recording studios around the world. PA amp? LOL!

BTW, I work for a dealer and we don't carry Bryston. But I just love their amps. As i said above, I have the SST2 powering my Gallo 3.5 speakers. I've tried various McIntosh, Krell, CJ, Levinson (and they're all great amps), but the best bang for the buck is always Bryston. And their warranty blows away all the others.

Good luck! Just remember this is a fun hobby and enjoy it. Keep your eyes open on Craigslist, E-Bay, and Audiogon. Once in a while you'll find a really good deal on Bryston.

Thank you too for your input. The Gallo's are currently in this configuration and it is wonderful, even in the huge room they are in.

Pre: Pioneer SX-980
Source: Denon TT(forget the model)
Upper Amps: BK Sonata M-200
Lower Amp: Anthony Gallo Reference 3 SA
Bi wired with the co amp on the bottom end for the dual voice coil 10"

I am just out to play and learn with this hobby. I love it.

Going to listen soon to a vintage pioneer room and some corner horns this weekend, cant wait.

 

[kansei]

I have owned three Bryston amps, and paid less than $400 for each of them on Craigslist over the years. They were 2x Bryston 3B-ST and a Bryston 4B. They're sometimes listed in the musical instruments section, so look there as well. That's a pretty low entry price if you have patience.

Every time I talk to the local repair shop owner, he swears by the 4B-ST as the best amp out there regardless of price. I would have picked one up if I had any interest in solid-state amps. They start in the $1200 range on the used market.

Pick one up, you can get your $ back easily if you don't like it. If you're buying locally, the seller may even let you audition it in your system if you ask nicely.

 

[charles 1973]

FWIW Bryston's 4B Line are their best Bang for the Buck in Power Amps for good reason. The 3B Line is almost the same price, but has 1/2 the power, it too is a fine Amp for most applications but why not spend a bit more and get all that Extra power.

The next step up is the 7B Series. Here were Talking Big $ for a pair of Amps to get just 3 db more SPL, the SQ when kept out of clipping is the same. One advantage other than Power Rating's the 7B's have over the 4B's is they can be configured (at the factory I believe) to deliver high current to drive a 2 ohm load for those few speakers that demand it.

For most of us Bryston's Best Deal is their B135sst2 Integrated Amp IMO, and is why I bought it's Predecessor the B100sst. Here you get their BP16 Preamp and 2B sst2 Power Amp on one chasis. It's way less expensive than the seperates and with 135 wpc on Tap (180 wpc @ 4 ohms...the same as the B100sst) it will drive most speakers effortlesly.

Even the B60sst is an outstanding Performer, but the B135sst2 has so much more to offer for the extra $1,000 or so I think it's Ideal for those looking for this level of refinement and Flexability If the Speakers and Source are up to the task.

 

[TEFGAF]

Having a Bryston pre-amp and two power amps (one 3B-ST and a 4B-ST), I have say they a really well made and their factory repair facility, in northern VT, is quite reasonable. My 4B-ST, actually rebranded as a Lexicon 225, had a left channel failure and only a five-year warranty that had expired. Bryton's VT shop fixed it for only $140 plus shipping. Considering that the amp is worth at least $1000, I considered this an inexpensive repair. Over the years, I've owned a lot of Japanese brands, but none hold their value like Bryston nor are they made with the same quality. In short, one gets what he/she pays for and Bryston is good stuff that will last a long as its 20-year warranty.

 

[62sunbeam]

Do you want to blind listening test out perform your dad's gear? Get a B&K amp.

Save your money.

SoCalSam is right. The Bryston are basically PA amps that have a loyal non pro following. They are very nice. Don't get me wrong but a Pair of B&K M200 mono blocks will sound WAY better and a 202plus will as well.

Good luck

Eric

 

[SoCal Sam]

...Bryston Amps aren't about max SPL's (although they can do that too), If you want that buy PA Amp. If you want to preserve every last detail from the source without coloring it, and get Imaging and Soundstaging 2'nd to None than Bryston has few peers IMO, at least for me, I know...I looked at all the big names and if I could have gotten a better one near it's price I wouldn't be writing about this Bryston.

PA amps are more than just SPL's. I've seen a lowly 1U Crown XLS-202 (non-D) on a square wave test and the results were near perfect. I do not doubt Bryston cannot match this result but to say they have "few peers" is simply not true. In a true blind test, two amps with similar square wave results will sound similar, if not indistinguishable.

 

[MoTeD]

Do you want to blind listening test out perform your dad's gear? Get a B&K amp.

Save your money.

SoCalSam is right. The Bryston are basically PA amps that have a loyal non pro following. They are very nice. Don't get me wrong but a Pair of B&K M200 mono blocks will sound WAY better and a 202plus will as well.

Good luck

Eric

Thats nice and all but I do have a BK amp and it sounds sluggish to me. I am competing against the M200 as well.

It is going to take me many years to better my dads system. OK.

 

[rustym]

I paid 500 for my 4b and it was money well spent. I also paid 1200 shipped for a 3bsst but much prefer the older 4b to it. The funny thing is I bought a Scott 299 with only 17 watts per channel and had it restored and prefer it over either of much higher powered Brystons, it's soooo smooth.

 

[JeffCullen]

Bryston amps are worth it if there are still many years left on the warranty. However, as a sonic proposition, Bryston is no better or no worse than a PA amp. This is a compliment as PA amps are objectively accurate. Take a look inside Bryston's and say a Crown XLS and you will see similar toroidal transformers and metal die T-03's. However, the Crown will cost only a tenth as much.

Several months ago, I had a channel die on my 4B-ST. Sent it off to exercise the ol' 20 year warranty, and decided to throw the Crown MT-1000 from my bass guitar rig into my system so I could have tunes while the Bryston was away... long story short, the Bryston came back and got sold. The old Crown wiped the floor with it... I neutered the fantastically loud fan and run it top and bottomless perched on some hockey pucks to encourage some semblance of convection cooling. Works great. The price for this road-worn old pro-audio beast? A case of Bud.

The newer SST and SST2 stuff is another story...

 

[SoCal Sam]

Several months ago, I had a channel die on my 4B-ST. Sent it off to exercise the ol' 20 year warranty, and decided to throw the Crown MT-1000 from my bass guitar rig into my system so I could have tunes while the Bryston was away... long story short, the Bryston came back and got sold. The old Crown wiped the floor with it... I neutered the fantastically loud fan and run it top and bottomless perched on some hockey pucks to encourage some semblance of convection cooling. Works great. The price for this road-worn old pro-audio beast? A case of Bud.

The newer SST and SST2 stuff is another story...

Whatever brand amp and at whatever price, the goal is still the same and the solution is still the same. The functional objective is to deliver energy. Take a look at Goldmund nudies in this thread. The metal die T-03 ouputs and toroidal transformers should be familiar to Bryston and Crown XLS-202 owners.

http://www.htforum.nl/yabbse/index.php?topic=49516.0

OTOH, the subjective glow from owning a badge cannot be under estimated. Plenty of brand loyal owners will not display a PA amp because there is no "cool" factor. There is no conversation to be made with a PA amp.

 

[MoTeD]

I paid 500 for my 4b and it was money well spent. I also paid 1200 shipped for a 3bsst but much prefer the older 4b to it. The funny thing is I bought a Scott 299 with only 17 watts per channel and had it restored and prefer it over either of much higher powered Brystons, it's soooo smooth.

I am hoping to pick up a pair of Heathkit mono's from another AK'er. Against his advice, which is a SS background and little tube experience. At 15ish watts per channel and me padrè has challenged me to prove him wrong about them. I hope to blow his hair back. Not in SPL but in overall performance, musicality, low frequency responce, well you know. The good stuff.

Dont get me wrong the BK is good. Maybe I should borrow his M200 mono bolcks and, well, listen.