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Budget Preamp w/Built-In MC Stage?

Thanks guys. This is very helpful. I threw a low bid on one of the Kenwood C2's before I'd read these endorsements -- didn't win, but I'll keep at it. I also lost out on the Yamaha C-2x when Bully BIN -- I had started the bidding, figuring I'd try to find out more about the unit before bidding higher -- when I got back to ebay it was gone! Good work, dude. The folks at a'gon who've responded to a similar post I left there do seem to want to push in the direction of "audiophile" name gear -- PSE, Adcom, etc. -- although one guy there did speak highly of the Nak CA-5 (but also said he gets dissed all the time there for his support of it).

I guess my remaining question, before I go off and start throwing low bids at C2's and Yamaha models mentioned, is will these models have sufficient gain for the ultra-low .25mV output of the Denon DL-103R? Thanks again. You've been wonderfully helpful, Rich
 
I sent you a PM in regards to an Onkyo Integra P-306RS preamp with a nice phono stage that I have...

BDT
 
Yamaha B-2 said:
All of the vintage Yamaha preamps mentioned above have dual phono inputs and several have dual preamp outputs. The dual inputs allow for exactly what you have described, running one TT with an MM and a second with an MC. Several of them also have dual preamp outs, allowing for bi-amping directly from the preamp.
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Quite so, and I realize in my haste I neglected to say that the real convenience of the CA-5 was that it has dual outputs.
 
dickard said:
Luxman made a few preamps that feature MC and MM phono sections. I'm using a C-120a which features both. I've not heard that MC section, but I assume that it is very high quality.

Prices for the C-120a should be in your range.

Rich
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I'll second this recomendation. I have the C-02 pre which I've seen on E-bay for about $100.00. VERY hard to beat this unit. I call it the "poor man's CJ". (Conrad/Johnson)
 
Well, I've gone and done it -- won an ebay auction for a CX-800 last night! Funny thing is I'm out of the country on sabbatical and won't even be able to listen to the system I'm putting together until I get home this summer. Is that sick or what? But I've been enjoying staying connected to these forums and to "virtual audio," since I have no stereo system here in Ireland. Thank all of you who've provided help.

By the way, can anyone tell me the differences between the CX-800 and the CX-1000? I see that bidding for the 1000 goes up to $400 and more, while I got the 800 for under $200. Am I going to be missing any sonic advantages, or are there more features? Or both? Thanks again, Rich

PS Think I'll still keep my eye out for a C-2x!
 
Congrats on a great buy! CX-1000 has a 16-bit dac built into it. Can be used with a CD transport, etc. Just a bunch of extra circuitry that is old enough that is useless in today's world. Simply adds weight and complexity, IMHO. I've never heard from anyone who owns one that they use it in any way. The CX-800 is pretty much the same preamp without the extra digital I/O. Loaned out both of my manuals, so can't give any details, but think you've got the better of the two. Especially on a value basis.

BTW - Where and what are you on sabbatical from? And where are you spending your time? Trinity?
 
I'm on sabbatical from teaching media production at a small college in NH, spending our time living in a friend's holiday house in Dingle -- the other coast. The locals love their music, but prefer it live at the pubs -- even the local musicians have no stereo equipment in their homes -- just boom boxes in their kitchens.

OK, so the CX-800 is good -- excellent! is the C-2/2x any better, again for MC phono? Thanks again, Rich
 
One more thing - does anyone have the CX-800 available as pdf? The Yamaha manual site someone linked above (thanks!) has "no results" for this model.
 
Sounds like fun. My retirement trip will be a few weeks in Ireland to chase down long-lost family. Only been there once, but that was for work. Looking forward to a longer stay and time with the relatives.

Hmmmm......is it better? I'll be comparing the C-2 to the CX-1000 in the next few weeks, so will have some comparison with these. My understanding is that the C-2a is a considerable step up from the C-2 and the C-2x even more so. But, don't have the C-2a or C-2x manuals to review the schematics/circuits to see what is different. But, think you'll be quite happy with the CX-800 to get started.

If bully pulls out his C-85 to compare to the C-2x will be interesting to read what he thinks of that comparison. I think the C-85/65 sound slightly better than either the CX-1000 or CX-1. But, I need the remote capability of the later units to make my life easy. I listen almost 100% of the time I am in the house and would spend half my time running back and forth to the volume control without a remote (wife, phone, etc.). If I find a C-2x and like the results, then I'll simply have to go with much longer speaker cables so can have the preamp next to my desk.
 
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winegasman said:
One more thing - does anyone have the CX-800 available as pdf? The Yamaha manual site someone linked above (thanks!) has "no results" for this model.
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Download the CX-1000 and ignore the digital stuff.
 
B-2 you scar me when you say something like the C-65 is better than the CX-1000. The 65 is a “budget” machine and had a price tag at a ¼ of the CX-1000. The CX-1000 was by the revivers said to be High-end reference class. And the digital system is not 16 bit, but 18 bit. It is the same system as in the CDX-1110 and CDX-5000.

And now you know somebody that uses the digital part of the CX-1000, I run both the CD and DVD digital in to the pre. (It can handle 48 KHz!). Both my CDX-550e (coax) and CDX-780 (optical) do not have as good a D/A as the CX-1000.

About the CX-800, I do believe it is a great pre. And on value basis a better buy. But I don’t think it is on the same level as the CX-1000.

The CX-830 shares manual with the CX-630, maybe the CX-800 share with the CX-600?
 
mine is the c-80, from the series before the c-85. it is a very fine preamp, and capable of "hanging in there" with the better units then or now.
the c-2x is proving to be exceptional.
I have been comparing the c-2x with the luxman c-383 (10 years difference in age), and have decided both are excellent. Both tt's are very good, the SL-1400Mk2 uses a MC cart, the DP-47F a MM cart. Phono sections are excellent to my ears.
 
the-real-mandak said:
B-2 you scar me when you say something like the C-65 is better than the CX-1000. The 65 is a “budget” machine and had a price tag at a ¼ of the CX-1000. The CX-1000 was by the revivers said to be High-end reference class. And the digital system is not 16 bit, but 18 bit. It is the same system as in the CDX-1110 and CDX-5000.

And now you know somebody that uses the digital part of the CX-1000, I run both the CD and DVD digital in to the pre. (It can handle 48 KHz!). Both my CDX-550e (coax) and CDX-780 (optical) do not have as good a D/A as the CX-1000.

About the CX-800, I do believe it is a great pre. And on value basis a better buy. But I don’t think it is on the same level as the CX-1000.

The CX-830 shares manual with the CX-630, maybe the CX-800 share with the CX-600?
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The C-65 was only 'budget' because it wasn't a C-85 with the dual outputs, etc. Same phono circuitry other than that. And, when taking into account the fact that it would have at least doubled in price if still made when the CX-series came out, it definitley wasn't budget. Subtract the digital (my bad - definitely 18-bit) from the CX-1000 and its price drops to about that of the CX-800 when all is considered. And, to my ears, the C-85/65 sound better. Even sound better than my CX-1, which is more high-end than the CX-1000. :D

BTW- You are the first person that I've heard from that has stated that he who uses the digital portion of the CX-1000. Most that are sold on eBay, Audiogon, etc., state specifically that they haven't tested the digital portion of the preamp. That said, I think the CDX-1100 (same as the CDX-1110/1120/5000) sounds very, very good. At least the equal of any other CDP I've listened to for an extended period of time. Not sure of the effects of an additional set of ICs on this, though.

And, the CX-600 does not share a manual with the CX-800. :no:
 
Must be the 'B'. But, I'm not sure that distinction was ever made in the U.S. Nothing in my SM shows that there is such a distinction and I don't recall anything about a 'B' or non-'B' in the markings on the one I owned. Definitely not a 'budget' preamp.

Also, just checked the OMs for both the C-85 and C-65. Nothing on either to indicate that there was a 'B' model in the U.S. The C-65 and -85 weigh within a couple of ounces of each other. I'm would guess that this is accounted for by the addition of the buffer stage and second set of outputs from the C-85 that the C-65 doesn't have. So, for my purposes, whenever I am speaking of the C-65, it is the model that was sold in the U.S., which is essentially the C-85 without the second set of outputs. To 'B' or not to 'B'. :D
 
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C-65, 1984, MSRP $350.00
C-65B, 1986, MSRP $600.00
The 65 came with the C-80 line; the 65B is as you writhe in line with the C-85. Be careful with the letters in the Yamaha model numbers, it is not the color they are talking about when they wright B :)
 
Like I've stated a few times, don't think there was a C-65/65B distinction in the U.S. We had a C-40/50/60/70 to go with the C-80 and the C-45/65 to go with the C-85. Guess it was different in Europe.
 
About the CX-1 vs. CX-1000, The CX-1000 actuarially has a little better spec.
The CX-1 has a little less noise, but how it comes out in real life I don’t know. I don’t have a CX-1, but if you want to send me yours that will be fine by me :D

It sounds a little strange that you didn’t have a 65/65B version. The price info is from Orion Blue Book, they usually don’t have EU products.
 
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Perhaps we did/do. Just nothing mentioned in Yamaha's U.S. manual library, or the owner's or service manuals.

I'd be happy to send along my CX-1 for $500 plus shipping (what the last one sold for on eBay). Do you need my Paypal account address (don't forget to add the 3.5% fees)?
 
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