burn out my tweeters?

[woofmytweets]

OK, so i have a question for the experts:

I have a pair of Amphion Creon speakers.https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/amphion/creon.shtml
I also have a pair of Yamaha MX-1000 amplifiers.

currently, I'm running them in bi-amped mode, with the one MX-1000 driving each speaker, Left channel for the HF terminals, and Right for the Low's. According to the manual, they do support bi-amping, but not a whole lot of detail is present in the manual.

I've been told by a couple people, that i'm going to "burn out my tweeters", and also the opposite, from a dealer I trust, but who also sells new Amphions (coincidentally).

I am a little concerned, but i have been operating under the assumption that the crossover in the speakers is doing its job and it's been functional for the better part of a year like this (and sounds excellent).....I don't crank it up very loud either....but the MX is a bit of a beast, as 260W/channel, so i thought i would see what you guys think.

thanks, everyone

 

[whoaru99]

You will not burn out the tweeter unless you simply apply too much power through sheer brute force or increased average power through clipping.

Biamping in this manner in and of itself does not materially increase the power to the tweeter because the crossover only allows in the signal voltage swing same as when the speakers are wired normally.

It is that same reason why this still provides only ~260 watts to the speaker, rather than 520. There may be other benefits to biamping in this manner, but power increase nor risk of overpowering the speaker beyond what one channel can do are not factors.

 

[woofmytweets]

You will not burn out the tweeter unless you simply apply too much power through sheer brute force or increased average power through clipping.

Biamping in this manner in and of itself does not materially increase the power to the tweeter because the crossover only allows in the signal voltage swing same as when the speakers are wired normally.

It is that same reason why this still provides only ~260 watts to the speaker, rather than 520. There may be other benefits to biamping in this manner, but power increase nor risk of overpowering the speaker beyond what one channel can do are not factors.

thanks, whoaru99

i should also add that i'm not using an electronic crossover.

I seem to remember a heated discussion of a very similar topic in the past, in which you were involved....just glad to see we agree here as we did there....but i'm sure not an expert in these matters, so i wanted to ask the community to be sure, as the couple people who "warned me" are much more accomplished in these matters (they are radio techs).

 

[woodj]

with the one MX-1000 driving each speaker, Left channel for the HF terminals, and Right for the Low's.

?

 

[whoaru99]

?

Passive vertical biamp.

 

[twiiii]

Originally bi-amp meant an electronic crossover was being used with the speakers in use. And it was usually designed for a particular set of speakers. The idea of using two identical amps driving passive crossovers serves no purpose and can possibly cause damage to the amplifiers driving the speakers. Now if you want to use a tube amp on top and a SS amp on the bottom, no quarrels from me. Bi-wiring and tri wiring may be necessary if you have long speaker runs or have high current issues and you don't want big ugly wire showing. I would rather invest in a great amp than in two better amps any day of the week.

Remember the power rating for your speakers is the system rating not the driver rating, so depending on the crossover point, the slopes, and the built in level matching, your tweeters could be easily destroyed. I have forgotten, do your amps have max power indicators of some type? If not shop around for some LED power indicators that are accurate to give you a clue at the power you are using. Personnally I would look for a pre-owned reconditioned 2205 or 7200. If you want to make a long term investment get a new MC 152.

 

[woofmytweets]

Originally bi-amp meant an electronic crossover was being used with the speakers in use. And it was usually designed for a particular set of speakers. The idea of using two identical amps driving passive crossovers serves no purpose and can possibly cause damage to the amplifiers driving the speakers. Now if you want to use a tube amp on top and a SS amp on the bottom, no quarrels from me. Bi-wiring and tri wiring may be necessary if you have long speaker runs or have high current issues and you don't want big ugly wire showing. I would rather invest in a great amp than in two better amps any day of the week.

Remember the power rating for your speakers is the system rating not the driver rating, so depending on the crossover point, the slopes, and the built in level matching, your tweeters could be easily destroyed.

right - well, i don't drive them hard at all, must be why everything's been fine so far.

 

[toxcrusadr]

You wouldn't want an external crossover anyway. If your speakers have two sets of terminals it means the internal crossover is set up to allow biamping when you remove the jumpers on the rear terminals. An external crossover would require disconnecting the drivers from the internal crossover, and also a second amp.

So to answer your original question, those amps could almost certainly blow out some speakers, but just watch the volume and don't drive the speakers into distortion and you'll be fine.

 

[toxcrusadr]

I see these are 8 ohm, 87 db sensitivity speakers. Probably the heavy amps will be great for them. At 87 db it takes some wattage to get them going.

 

[woofmytweets]

I see these are 8 ohm, 87 db sensitivity speakers. Probably the heavy amps will be great for them. At 87 db it takes some wattage to get them going.

yes, they do tend to like the extra power - I like them a lot, and don't want to damage them. the risk of eviction and the associated need to pack them up along with all my other gear, keeps the volume very moderate....also consideration for my neighbors.

 

[SaturationPt]

What whoru said in post #2 is your answer.

If you have a single 50watt stereo amp driving both speakers at 100dbA, and change to four 1million watt monoblock amps and drive the speakers bi-amped at the same 100dbA sound level, you are not driving them with any more power and might be putting them at less risk because you're probably not clipping with the 4million available watts, ... (exaggeration for illustrative purposes). The watts are available for more speakers, less efficient speakers, more volume.

Look at it this way: plugging a 7watt night-light into an outlet with a 15amp breaker, then moving it to an outlet with a 20amp breaker, ... no change in light output, no change in heat, no change in bulb life, ... the voltage (volume) is the constant.

Tweeters are more often burned out from too low powered amps, the lack of available power drives the amplifier into clipping and cannot produce the low-frequencies so all of the nasty clipped and transient power can instead go to fry the tweeters.

 

[woofmytweets]

What whoru said in post #2 is your answer.

If you have a single 50watt stereo amp driving both speakers at 100dbA, and change to four 1million watt monoblock amps and drive the speakers bi-amped at the same 100dbA sound level, you are not driving them with any more power and might be putting them at less risk because you're probably not clipping with the 4million available watts, ... (exaggeration for illustrative purposes). The watts are available for more speakers, less efficient speakers, more volume.

Look at it this way: plugging a 7watt night-light into an outlet with a 15amp breaker, then moving it to an outlet with a 20amp breaker, ... no change in light output, no change in heat, no change in bulb life, ... the voltage (volume) is the constant.

Tweeters are more often burned out from too low powered amps, the lack of available power drives the amplifier into clipping and cannot produce the low-frequencies so all of the nasty clipped and transient power can instead go to fry the tweeters.

WTB: 4-millon-watt amp.

no wait

TWO 4-million-watt amps (for stereo).

 

[toxcrusadr]

GREAT SCOTT!