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BUYER BEWARE: PATFONT

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patcurtin

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This past July, I bought a rebuilt Pioneer SX727 from Patfont for $270. The amp looked beautiful from the outside, but after only a few days of light use, I noticed that the audio was cutting out in the left channel, then it started happening in the right channel. I changed speaker plugs, speakers, inputs, electrical outlets, and even summed the inputs to mono output., but the problem persisted.

I contacted Pat and said "this was the first time this had ever happened to him" and he sent me some troubleshooting tips. Ultimately, I sent the amp back to Pat at my expense and he determined that the issue I was experiencing was caused by a bad contact relay. His timing was very convenient - he asked me some questions the day before the AK site went down for upgrades and I didn't even have a chance to respond. Then, the next week, a large, mangled box shows up at my doorstep from Pat. He shipped the amp back after testing for less than a day. When I mentioned this to Pat, he was taken aback at the suggestion that he should have waited for my response and he was also hesitant to refund my shipping charges, which he eventually did.

Nonetheless, I received the amp and it worked ok for a couple of weeks. This was not an everyday amp for me, just something to play once in a while in the family room. Unfortunately, one night while I was listening to music, the left channel cut out once again. I contacted Pat via PayPal to let him know that I was not interested in another repair - I wanted to return the amplifier for a refund. He said there would be a restocking fee and that he needed to recoup his shipping costs, so he would only refund me $168. He further emphasized how I should feel lucky that I got a good deal on the amp in the first place. I'm not sure what kind of delusional mindset Pat has, but to suggest that I should be lucky to have an unusable amplifier was the last straw for me.

Now, he won't even refund me anything and I am out $270 and left with a broken Pioneer.

If you're considering buying from Pat, watch out! He seems to be a scammer, but that's just my opinion!
 
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Sorry to hear this, maybe this will help:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sx-727-troubleshooting.365130/

Also, I see in the picture in the op of that thread that there appears to be a clear cover relay in there, I just replaced the protection relay on my SA-7500 II, and it looked like that one. Does the sound get better if you turn it up louder for a bit, kind of like the sound 'pushes' through?

This thread has information on the relay:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pioneer-sx-727-rebuild-thread.530284/
 
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I will only post this one reply, and I will just stick to the facts, funny how the facts are stretched in the above post.

Customer buys unit in July for 240.00 plus 30.00 shipping for 270.00 total
I give customer 30 day warranty plus shipping both ways if need be. (Yep 30 day warranty on 40 year old item with free shipping.)
Customer contacts me in October 90 days after sale, warranty is 30 days. Nice guy that I am customer ships unit back and I refund the shipping (did not have to be talked into it, thats how I do buisness) I then repair by replacing the relay, and ship back on my dime.
Next contact I get is on Jan 5th via paypal customer starts a case against me for a refund of full 270.00.
He waits till the 180th day allowed by paypal for some reason. Why did he not contact me if there was a problem between October and now to January.
I offer him 90.00 to repair locally or to return to me for a refund less my 90.00 shipping.
He is not happy with this, so escallates the claim.
Paypal decides the case in my favor, so customer says this is your last offer give me a full refund or I will post bad feedback for you. (Is that black mail?)
Anyway if you can follow this I think you will know who is blowing smoke and have no clue what his agenda is, or what he has done on his end.

I feel I add to this forum, shipping free parts to many people, walking people through rebuilds via PM's and having people send me boards to be repaired free of charge many times parts and labor just for the love of the hobby.

This is the first time I have had a problem ever selling anything, I have 100% positive feedback here and on ebay since 1999.

I would state seller be careful if you are thinking of selling this person something.

For me it really does not matter if someone will or will not buy from me because of this post, I have a group of customers that know and trust me and continue to send me multiple units.

Funny that the post above this for relay repair, is my thread...lol
Just adding-my counter offer to PayPal claim, was the $90.00 to repair, or refund less $90.00 I guess that was not good enough!

Copy and paste what ever you want my friend, PayPal always backs the buyer, not in this case, they know!


Here is the sale thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/nice-pioneer-sx-727-full-technical-rebuild.664854/
 
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patfont said:
I will only post this one reply, and I will just stick to the facts, funny how the facts are stretched in the above post.

Customer buys unit in July for 240.00 plus 30.00 shipping for 270.00 total
I give customer 30 day warranty plus shipping both ways if need be. (Yep 30 day warranty on 40 year old item with free shipping.)
Customer contacts me in October 90 days after sale, warranty is 30 days. Nice guy that I am customer ships unit back and I refund the shipping (did not have to be talked into it, thats how I do buisness) I then repair by replacing the relay, and ship back on my dime.
Next contact I get is on Jan 5th via paypal customer starts a case against me for a refund of full 270.00.
He waits till the 180th day allowed by paypal for some reason. Why did he not contact me if there was a problem between October and now to January.
I offer him 90.00 to repair locally or to return to me for a refund less my 90.00 shipping.
He is not happy with this, so escallates the claim.
Paypal decides the case in my favor, so customer says this is your last offer give me a full refund or I will post bad feedback for you. (Is that black mail?)
Anyway if you can follow this I think you will know who is blowing smoke and have no clue what his agenda is, or what he has done on his end.

I feel I add to this forum, shipping free parts to many people, walking people through rebuilds via PM's and having people send me boards to be repaired free of charge many times parts and labor just for the love of the hobby.

This is the first time I have had a problem ever selling anything, I have 100% positive feedback here and on ebay since 1999.

I would state seller be careful if you are thinking of selling this person something.

For me it really does not matter if someone will or will not buy from me because of this post, I have a group of customers that know and trust me and continue to send me multiple units.

Funny that the post above this for relay repair, is my thread...lol


Here is the sale thread:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/nice-pioneer-sx-727-full-technical-rebuild.664854/
Click to expand...

Wow...where to begin. I am on my lunch break and don't have time to copy and paste the PMs that the seller and I shared but I will this evening. I have nothing to gain here, so I'm not sure what my "personal agenda" is. I got scammed. Plain and simple.

A few corrections to Pat's post above. I contacted Pat on July 19th to report the problem to him. I shipped the amp back to him and he supposedly repaired it, but the problem crept up again several weeks later.

As I said in my original post, this is not an everyday amplifier for me...it is for occasional listening. The PayPal date is pure coincidence. I would like Pat to produce something in writing where he offered a $90 repair option - this is the first I'm hearing about it. He offered me $168 refund but I would have to pay return shipping (approx $35). So that leaves me with a loss of $130 and nothing to show for it.

After PayPal decided the claim, here is the email I wrote to Pat. Any decent person would've responded, but he did not. Am I supposed to sit back and let someone maintain their reputation after scamming me out of $270?

Email Sent on January 12th

"Hi Pat,
This is my final offer - which considering the facts of the sale - seems reasonable to me. If you would like the amp back, I will have to purchase a new shipping box (as yours was badly mangled), but I will cover that cost and half of the cost of return shipping to you. In exchange, you refund me the original purchase price of $270. This is the only fair outcome.

You sold me what you said was a rebuilt amp, and I had issues in the first week of use. You aren't denying the fact that there is an issue, as you repaired the contact relay. Unfortunately this didn’t fix the problem.

Look at the situation from my perspective. I now have a worthless piece of junk sitting in my family room and I am out $270. For you to suddenly bring up a restocking fee was pretty offensive.

I’m sure you value your reputation, and you’ll notice that I have not yet posted on AK or any other forum about the defective amp.

I hope we can come to an agreement."
 
faber12 said:
Sorry to hear this, maybe this will help:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/sx-727-troubleshooting.365130/

Also, I see in the picture in the op of that thread that there appears to be a clear cover relay in there, I just replaced the protection relay on my SA-7500 II, and it looked like that one. Does the sound get better if you turn it up louder for a bit, kind of like the sound 'pushes' through?

This thread has information on the relay:

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/pioneer-sx-727-rebuild-thread.530284/
Click to expand...
Nope, sound doesn't get any louder if I turn it up. Sometimes turning the amp on and off several times would work, but even that doesn't work now.
 
Here I will save you the trouble here is our PM conversation, peeps can read and decide for themselves. Notice these are dated "October."




Hi Pat,
It is here. When you packed it up were both channels working or was one out? Also random left and right going out, after how long playing? Just need to know so I can duo easier.

Thanks,
Pat








Here I will save you the trouble here is our PM conversation, peeps can read and decide for themselves. Notice these are dated "October."


Hi Pat,
4 PDT gold plated contact relay is replaced and playing fine. I will let it go for 24 hrs.

Pat


here is a video:



Hi Pat,
I was very surprised to see a package outside my house on Monday afternoon. The last I heard from you was on Friday morning - you asked for information about cutouts in the left and right channels. I didn't have a chance to reply and then they shut the forums down for the entire weekend.
I am not an electronics engineer so I honestly do not know what 4 PDT contact relay is - and the fact that you only let it go for 24 hours is also concerning, considering it worked for me for at least a week before the cutouts started happening.
I also never heard back from you about my shipping charges of approx. $31. I'm not really sure what to think about this whole situation.



Hi Pat,
What do you mean you are not sure what to think???
Receiver is fixed (intermittent relay, pictured in the video) with quick turn around time. If I can get you paypal address I can refund your shipping to me as stated.




sent you 32.00 via paypal for shipping


I'll be honest with you Pat. You didn't give me a chance to respond to your message last week. I don't want to be guessing and listening extra-carefully to the receiver to make sure it doesn't cut out. When I initially contacted you a few weeks ago, you admitted you were stumped and said that this had never happened to you before. To be honest, I didn't really want the receiver back unless you are absolutely certain that you fixed the problem. And 24 hours isn't really a lot of time to make that determination in my opinion. I appreciate you trying to get the receiver back to me quickly, but I wished you would've waited for a reply from me.




What I said never happened before was something I sold coming back to me. So you sent it back and I repaired it, under a warranty which I stood behind. Most sellers on BT are not putting any warranty on a 40+ year old piece of electronics, and if they do you will pay shipping back-I paid it. Even the best rebuild piece can have problems. This is not a full time job for me, I do this out of my love for the hobby. You said it was cutting out one channel than the other, when I have something on my bench I can not wait for 3 days to get an answer so I check it myself. Your unit is returned and to the best of my knowledge is good to go. Please know this, if I were to rebuild this for someone I would charge 210.00 plus 100.00 for parts which would be 310.00. And that does not include what they purchased the unit for. You paid 270.00 but did not include the fee so I netted 260.00, you got a great deal.

Please enjoy your 727!

Pat
 
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my $.02 is that Pat (patfont) has been a long standing member, and a highly respected tech with much experience. I have had personal dealings with Pat and have had nothing but positive dealings and have never heard a peep from anybody that was unhappy with his work. He openly shares his knowledge with all interested members.

I won't comment on the politics of the situation as outlined by the 2 Pats other than to say that **** happens with this old stuff.
 
That is enough, only those members who have done business with the two principals may comment in this thread per the rules! I have deleted posts for this reason, but will restore them if experience is in play
Regards,
Jim
 
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Pat didn't include this thread of PMs.
Hi Pat,
I see that you received the Pioneer early this week. If you give me your email address I will send you the UPS receipt - total cost was $31.25 with $270 insurance included.
As I said before, if you can't find anything obviously wrong with the receiver, I do not want it back and would need a full paypal refund.

Like I said, it worked fine for 2 or 3 weeks, then started randomly cutting out in the left channel, then the right channel. Tried different speakers, different electrical outlets, different input sources, etc.

Take care,
Pat

http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=184


Pat


patcurtin said:
Hi Pat,
I will ship out soon, I was just waiting to test the unit one last time before I ship it out to you.
patfont said:
ok then, please ship back to me to check, I pay freight both ways.

Pat

Just let me know your shipping cost.

Again very sorry 1st time for me this happened in all my transactions :(


patcurtin said:
Yeah it's definitely not any of the buttons. I'm pretty familiar with tape monitor buttons, etc. it's nothing that simple.
patfont said:
seems like something simple, you can try pushing the tape monitor switch in and out, or some of the other buttons. If not I can check it.

Pat

patcurtin said:
Hi Pat,
What do you think it could be? At one point, I had the balance in the right channel and I was getting extremely low volume, then the volume came back to normal. Pretty strange. I've never seen anything like it before. The volume in the right channel seemed to fluctuate or just cut out randomly in the 2 hours that I played it last night.

patfont said:
Sorry to hear about this, please send back to me and let me know the freight and I will paypal the freight $ back to you. I will check it out/repair? and get right back to you. This is a first for me.



Pat

patcurtin said:
Hi Pat,
Actually your plug was the one that was in the right channel (that has low volume and/or no sound)
patfont said:
wow, sorry to hear about that. Do me a favor and swap the plugs in each channel to see if the no sound moves, or use my plug. There are so many plugs out there some do not make full contact. I did burn it in for 2 days.

Ship back to me you are covered under warranty, I pay freight both ways.


Pat


patcurtin said:
Hi Pat,
I finally got another pair of plugs yesterday. Unfortunately, when I first powered up the reviver, the right speaker output was very low on all inputs. I tried moving to the B and C speaker outputs, with the same result. After many tries, the sound finally came on in the right channel, but then when I went to adjust the treble it immediately cut out. Couldn't get it back after that. I've tried my speakers in my normal amp and they're working fine, so I'm not sure what the problem is. To be honest though, at this point I'm not interested in troubleshooting further unless it is something very basic. It must have been damaged in shipping? How much insurance did you take out?
patfont said:
Thanks, hope you find one quick!

Pat

patcurtin said:
Hi Pat,
I received today - looks like a beauty! I am anxious to hear it but unfortunately waiting on one more speaker plug.
 
I'll tell you what....I believe in karma - and I will give this receiver away to anyone who wants it as long as they pay for shipping costs from CT. My experience with Pat has quite honestly made me reconsider ever buying anything on AK again, which is unfortunate. He ruined it for me.
 
Here is the deal my friend, I feel I did all the right things here, and you backhandedly on the last day (180 days for paypal) file a claim without any contact from October till I see a claim in my email on 1/5! Also you put your foot in your own mouth stating problems with you having to pay freight to me, where clearly I state above which you just copied and pasted where I say I pay freight both ways. Sadly the reality is you do not get to dictate the policy of how I handle a sale, repair or what ever. Cool that you will now give it away for just freight I applaud that!
 
And I believe that everyone can make their own judgment on this issue. Thread Closed
 
VERRRY happy Pat Fonte customer here, on two occasions. Pat was a dream to work with, and was very detail oriented. I am currently listening to the lovely h/k 330C that Pat recapped for me. I'd recommend him to anyone.
 
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